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Keto Chat Episode 130: How To End Your Carb Confusion About Keto Diet

Interviewee Bio and Links:

Book: End Your Carb Confusion

Eric’s Bio:
Eric C. Westman, MD, MHS, is an Associate Professor of Medicine at Duke University. He is Board Certified in Obesity Medicine and Internal Medicine and founded
the Duke Keto Medicine Clinic in 2006 after eight years of clinical research regarding low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets. He is Past President and Master Fellow of the Obesity
Medicine Association and Fellow of the Obesity Society. He is an editor of the textbook Obesity: Evaluation & Treatment Essentials and co-author of the books Cholesterol Clarity, Keto Clarity, and
the New York Times bestseller, The New Atkins for a New You. He is cofounder of ADAPT Your Life, an education and product company based on low-carbohydrate concepts.

Eric’s Links:
Website: http://drwestmanonline.com/
YouTube: ADAPT Your Life – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCni9TCw0YPwTdu7BYF3j0Eg
Twitter: @drericwestman – https://twitter.com/drericwestman
IG: @ecwestman

Amy’s Bio:

Amy Berger, MS, CNS, is a U.S. Air Force veteran and Certified Nutrition Specialist who specializes in helping people do “Keto Without the Crazy.”™ She has a master’s degree in human nutrition and writes about a wide range of health and nutrition-related topics, such as insulin, metabolism, weight loss, diabetes, thyroid function, and more. She has presented internationally on these issues and is the author of The Alzheimer’s Antidote and The Stall Slayer: Seven Roadblocks to Keto Fat Loss and What to Do About Them.

Amy’s Links:

Blog: http://www.tuitnutrition.com/

YouTube: Tuit Nutrition – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmDz-SYYhoerycynsCm7L8g/videos
Twitter: @Tuit Nutrition – https://twitter.com/TuitNutrition

IG: @TuitNutrition – https://www.instagram.com/tuitnutrition/

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Transcript:

Carole Freeman:

All right. Welcome everyone to this episode of Keto Chat, I’m here with wonderful people, Amy Berger, Dr. Eric Westman, welcome everyone. They’re here to talk about their brand new book that’s coming out End Your Carb Confusion. If you guys have been living under a rock, and you don’t know who these two people are, let me just read their bio for you. Oh, oops. Let’s see. I had that pulled up and then I closed that out. Bear with me a moment here. Okay. Dr. Eric Westman is an associate professor of medicine at Duke University, he’s board certified in obesity medicine and internal medicine, and founded the Duke Keto Medicine Clinic in 2006, after eight years of clinical research regarding low-carbohydrate ketogenic diets. He is a past president and master fellow of the Obesity Medicine Association, and fellow of the Obesity Society. He is editor of the textbook Obesity: Evaluation and Treatment Essentials, And he’s co-authored the books, Cholesterol Clarity, Keto Clarity, and New York Times bestseller, The New Atkins for a New You.

Carole Freeman:

He’s co-founder of Adapt Your Life, an educational product company based on low-carb concepts. You guys know who he is now, don’t you? Welcome Dr. Westman.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, thank you. After seeing your name for so long, Keto Caroline changed the name of her clinic to the Keto Medicine Clinic.

Carole Freeman:

Oh, great, great. Well, I’ll send you the bill for the 10% on Keto royalty [inaudible 00:01:48]. I own that name, right? No. So I’m glad you’re here. And then Amy Berger is a U.S. Air Force veteran and certified nutrition specialist, who specializes in helping people do keto without the crazy trademark, she has a master’s degree in human nutrition, and… I don’t know why I put quotes on trademark. Anyways, TM. Master’s degree in human nutrition and writes about a wide range of health and nutrition related topics, such as insulin, metabolism, weight loss, diabetes, thyroid function and more. She has presented internationally on these issues and is author of the Alzheimer’s Antidote, and The Stall Slayer: Seven Roadblocks to Keto Fat Loss, and What to Do About Them. Welcome Amy Berger.

Amy Berger:

Thank you. I’m more impressed that Dr. Westman is a master fellow of the Obese [inaudible 00:02:36]. Is there a special handshake? That’s very [crosstalk 00:02:41].

Dr. Eric Westman:

[inaudible 00:02:41].

Amy Berger:

I’m not a Master Fellow of anything, I just write a book.

Dr. Eric Westman:

It’s a secret.

Carole Freeman:

That’s tripped me up a little bit too. I was like, “Oh, I haven’t seen that designation, the master fellow.” So I imagine you have a sword or something they give you for that, right?

Dr. Eric Westman:s

No, it just means you’re old.

Carole Freeman:

Well welcome, thank you all for reaching out. I was so excited to hear you guys have this new book coming out. So, let’s start out with, how’d this book even come to be?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Sure. Well, gosh, how many years have we crossed paths girl? The cruises, the low carb meetings.

Carole Freeman:

Probably about four or five now-

Dr. Eric Westman:

For five, yeah.

Carole Freeman:

… [inaudible 00:03:25] first Low Cab USA was. Which was four or five [inaudible 00:03:32] around there.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, I’ve gotten to know a lot about keto diets, used them in the clinic with people who have all sorts of diseases, and it’s very, very therapeutic. It’s very effective. But I’ve come to the realization that not everyone’s going to do it, including my brother and my kids. So the thought occurred to me and to my partners with Adapt Your Life, that why don’t we bring the knowledge that we’ve learned about carbs to people who wouldn’t do keto, who wouldn’t even think about it? Give up an apple or something. Yes, you can have an apple and still achieve a lot of the benefits that you get by cutting carbs, and because there’s so much confusion, I find that my clinic day is basically trying to get rid of all of the misconceptions about what keto means.

Dr. Eric Westman:

So when I learned about Amy Berger and her Alzheimer’s Antidote book and the clear writing, she’s a professional writer, and also that she had a keto without the crazy mentality of trying to make things simple, it was natural. So I asked her to help me operationalize the idea of telling people about what we know about sugar and carbs, and that not everyone needs that. If your metabolism is suitable, you don’t have to do keto, which might surprise you.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Yeah. Anything to add Amy?

Amy Berger:

Yeah. In my thinking this book, like Dr. Westman was saying, we’ve all three of us have been at this keto thing and low carb thing for a number of years, Dr. Westman, more than you or I Carol. And we’ve seen it evolve from something that was pretty simple, just don’t eat a whole lot of carbohydrate and you’re like 90% of the way to where you want to go. That’s the main thing you have to do. And over the last few years, it’s become so complicated So confused by all of this extra stuff that wasn’t really part of the core message, was just eat very little carbohydrate. Everything else is detail. Maybe it matters, maybe it doesn’t, but the place to start is just cutting your carbs way back.

Amy Berger:

And that signal has been lost in all of the noise. So this book really, I think quiets all that noise, gives you the main message, and just takes… I mean, the best way for me to say it is, this is the book I would want if I was new to all of this now. Because the fact that this way of eating has become so popular is so great, because there’s so much more information about it than there ever was, but then there’s also a lot of misinformation and a lot of stuff that’s really high-level and complicated, that you don’t even need to understand at all, to do the main thing and be successful. And Dr. Westman is being too modest.

Amy Berger:

The real story of how this actually evolved, is he originally wanted to write a book that was a 30 page, like a pamphlet that you could pick up at an airport, before COVID when people actually went on airplanes, that you could pick up at an airport bookstore, read on the flight, and by the time you landed, you could actually be ready to start keto. Like this little thing with just, “Here’s what you need to do.” And the publisher was like, “Nobody’s going to buy a 30-page book. Can we do this with something more?” So we fleshed it out with a lot more stuff, but-

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, I think it’ll have a broader appeal than the, “Here, just do keto.” For example, I have a brother who his life has been full of carbs, but he was the one who was naturally active and played basketball in high school, and in college, while I was studying books. So there are individual differences that we hope to bring the knowledge of what we’ve learned about low carb and keto to the other people that need it and wouldn’t consider, or maybe they would consider if they knew how easy it was to do keto. And in my clinic I have medical students and residents, and recently the first patient I saw was one of the students. She came in and the patient said, “This is too easy.” And I said, “Well, what do you mean?” “Because I’m not hungry, I don’t have to think about what to eat.” And also some people are going to be surprised at how simple it really is.

Amy Berger:

Yeah.

Carole Freeman:

Oh yeah. That’s so true. I get that… My clients, “Here’s what you do step by step.” And they’re like, “This is so much easier than what I was trying before.” Everybody’s got to make it so complicated out there. You don’t need all the macro calculators, you don’t… I got an early copy of your book, and there’s not one mention of macros in there, no calculators or percentages or anything crazy like that. So [crosstalk 00:08:36].

Dr. Eric Westman:

I think there is a mention in macro and we say, “Don’t do it.”

Amy Berger:

Yeah. We think don’t worry about math. But I think Dr. Westman is right. It’s not just a keto book and I think that’s where this is new to our space, so to speak. Honestly as much as all three of us, we make our careers out of this way of eating, but it would be frankly wrong, downright incorrect of us to say that “Cantaloupe is poisoning you.” Or, “Sweet potatoes are killing you.” When there’s billions of healthy people around the world that eat these foods and they’re thin, they’re healthy, they age with their faculties intact. So our book helps people find, “What is the carb level that’s right for me?” Because the truth is, a lot of people do need keto. There’s a lot of people with type 2 diabetes, and PCOS, and hypoglycemia and all of these conditions that respond really well to keto.

Amy Berger:

And then there’s people who don’t need to be quite so strict, and then we all know plenty of people too, that may be at one point were very sick or very, very overweight, and did keto for a while, corrected all the issues, and now what? Should they eat strict keto for the whole rest of their life, or do they maybe now have a little more flexibility? So that’s where this book… Because I think in the keto world, unintentionally, we do people a disservice by making them really scared of foods that might be perfectly okay for them. Not 400 grams of carbs a day, but maybe you can have a peach from the farmer’s market in the middle of summer, and it won’t actually kill you.

Carole Freeman:

I think Amy, you have a phrase and I don’t know which food it is, but you say something about, “Eating sweet potato’s never made anybody overweight,” Or, “That’s not the problem.”

Amy Berger:

Yeah. Nobody got diabetes from eating too much broccoli.

Carole Freeman:

Exactly, right? Well, you guys hinted on that, so let’s just go there now. So who is this book for? Who should read this book?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, we want it really to be for the general public. Just someone who’s interested in improving their health by addressing nutrition, and that’s the main thing. We have a sound modulators or an amplifier with different dials, but we explain that the nutrition dial is what you got to really work on first. The other things usually come around on their own, but it’s also good for a keto crowd who might be at a stall, who might not understand the original… If you are in this world, it’s more like the original Atkins Induction or Protein Power, which is how we all learned this 20 years ago, So it’s a reminder, a refresher for people who are already in the world. And we don’t do the food quality really, that piece will say, “Don’t worry too much about it, it’s great if you can.” And then, “Don’t over-consume fats and oils.” which are still problems I see today in people who are in this world, but not getting the results they want.

Dr. Eric Westman:

You might even send it to a relative who you might want to help influence, who thinks keto’s crazy, and this is not a, “You must do keto.” Kind of book. It helps you figure out what would probably work.

Amy Berger:

I think to anyone watching this after, we’re recording on Saturday, November 7th, I think we are getting a tiny bit of the noise. There’s some celebrating in Dr. Westman’s neighborhood. I think he lives on a [crosstalk 00:12:15]. I think we’ve had some car honking. Anyway. No, I agree. The book is for-

Dr. Eric Westman:

I think they’re celebrating the book.

Carole Freeman:

Yes.

Amy Berger:

[inaudible 00:12:23]. I mean, the book is for everybody, but I think it’s for… There’s so many different audiences that I think would benefit from it, but the two that jump out to me the most are people who… It’s well known at this point that keto, or even just low-carb is really good for weight loss, and also even for type 2 diabetes. People are starting to know that this is the best way to go. But what about all the people that have these weird unexplained health problems, and they don’t know why, because every time they get their blood sugar checked at the doctor it’s normal, and your A1C is normal. “Well, we don’t know what’s wrong with you, you’re not diabetic, see you in six months.” And all three of us talk about this all the time.

Amy Berger:

What’s going on with insulin when your blood sugar is normal? So we have a whole chapter on insulin and how that chronically high insulin explains things like hypertension and gout and PCOS, and even migraines and all of these other things, even when your “traditional blood work” looks normal. And then the other group of people I think is like Dr. Westman was talking about, somebody that knows they have health issues, but they’re never going to do keto. They’re just like, “I’m not ever going to do that crazy keto thing.” They could read this and learn like, “Oh, I don’t have to go to that extreme level.” So many of these people will get much, much better just cutting carbs to some extent. Now, they might get even better if they would go all the way, but if they’re not going to, maybe they could come off their insulin and come off two medications, and maybe they’re just still taking Metformin. Or maybe they get 80% of the way to where they want to go, and they’re perfectly happy there.

Amy Berger:

And should we leave those people behind? Should we say, “Well, you still want to eat fruit, so you might as well just be sick and we’re going to leave you, we don’t care.” No, “What can we do to get you in a good direction?” And then Dr. Westman was saying, he wasn’t really clear on what he meant by the food quality, but there’s all this talk about, “Your food has to be organic, and it has to be grass-fed, and you can’t have the soybean oil in your salad dressing.” And those are again these peripheral issues that are not the biochemical way by which this way of eating actually works inside you. Carole I’m sure your fans probably know your history.

Amy Berger:

Not everyone can afford to go to the hoity-toity co-op and pay $20 a pound for steak. Should we leave you behind? Should those people be left to just, “Well, sorry you can’t afford grass-fed beef. I guess you just have to go blind from diabetes.” No, you can eat discount chain food. You can go to the fast food drive through and you can get burger patties, and you’ll do great, as long as you just keep the carbs low.

Dr. Eric Westman:

And I’ve learned this from many of my patients who are from all walks of life in Durham, North Carolina. Some eat from fast food and restaurants entirely, some go to the fancy grocery stores and cook their own meals, but we had to come up with the essence of what would work in all of these different places. And we share that information just as clearly as we can.

Carole Freeman:

Oh, it’s so true. You guys know my backstories. When I first started this, I was so disabled, I was getting my food at the food bank. And if we get the message out that you don’t have to have really expensive food, you can actually do it on any budget, even if you have no budget, there’s a way of making this work and you get, I don’t know, 98% of the benefits just making that change in eating any quality of food that you can afford. It’s very important message to get out there, I love that. And also I love that this whole book is about being more inclusive. Like, “Let’s bring along everyone, no matter where they’re at.” Because our diet mentality is it wants to be black or white like, “You’re all in, or you’re binging on junk food.”

Carole Freeman:

And I love that this book is about, “Let’s meet people where they’re at, and there is an approach that can fit that just improving your diet in general, is going to get you a lot of benefits, So you don’t have to be black and white. You don’t have to be all or nothing to get a lot of the benefits.”

Amy Berger:

I think, you mentioned something about, the all in, or you’re either 20 grams of carbs a day or fewer, or your face first in a tub of ice cream or something, but something that our book includes too that I think is missing from the keto world is that there’s a lot of books on food addiction and sugar addiction, and then there’s books on keto, there’s nothing that really incorporates both, until now.

Amy Berger:

Our book doesn’t talk a ton about it, but we do have sections on food addiction, sugar addiction. “Okay. Ideally, this is the diet you follow. What happens in that moment when you have that day where… or just want a damn doughnut.” What do you do? Well, if you have the doughnut, okay, get right back on plan immediately after, no big deal, move on. Or, maybe instead of the doughnut, we have a food list, for example, a cinnamon roll flavored protein bar is not really part of the food list. But if you’re in that situation, and you can barely hang on, we would prefer that you have a cinnamon roll or a birthday cake-flavored protein bar, rather than a pint of regular ice cream. There’s a spectrum of how can we indulge and go to get over that hump with the least metabolic damage?

Amy Berger:

Ideally, you would have a piece of pepperoni instead, but you’re not going to do that. You wanted the sweet. How can we have the least metabolic damage, so to speak. And I don’t know a better way to say that, but we’re being realistic. It’s like Dr. Westman says. The holidays are coming up, if you want to enjoy on Thanksgiving or Christmas or Hanukkah or whatever… I’m going to steal your line missy, your thunder, Dr. Westman.

Dr. Eric Westman:

It’s okay.

Amy Berger:

He says, “Don’t let a holiday become a holiweek, or a holimonth.” Nobody became obese and diabetic from having one piece of pumpkin pie. The problem is that we eat like it’s Thanksgiving 365 days a year, that’s the problem. Not the once in a while slice of pizza.

Carole Freeman:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dr. Eric Westman:

It’s okay, I stole that from another doctor. We all share good lines like that.

Amy Berger:

Because I say it all the time, but I always give you credit?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, I got it from Alan Rader who-

Amy Berger:

And it’s actually in here. This is our book, everyone it’s actually in here.

Carole Freeman:

Ooh.

Amy Berger:

[inaudible 00:19:28] in here.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Very cool.

Carole Freeman:

That’s great. So you can cite your source now too, [inaudible 00:19:34]. And those of you that are watching this, if you’re watching the replay, #replay, let us know you’re watching the replay, but if you’re somebody who is ready to end your carb-confusion, if you’re in that place where you’re really feeling like, “Yeah, I’m really confused about how many carbs, should I be at zero, or should I be at 400?” So say yes in the comment section, let us know that you are ready to end your carb-confusion. But let’s talk about it. So your first section of the book is how we got here. Can we talk about that, because it’s been so long now that we’ve been told that fat’s bad for us, salt’s bad for us, we should eat six times a day. People forgot that there was something before that. So how do we get to this point now, where most of us are going to do better with having some level of carbohydrate restriction?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Yeah. So how do you boil down the Good Calories, Bad Calories, book by Gary Taubes and My Big Fat Diet by Nina Teicholz-

Carole Freeman:

Yeah, yeah. That one right there.

Dr. Eric Westman:

But basically it was the focus on avoiding fats, and fat in the food causes fat in the arteries, and fat will raise your cholesterol, and the cholesterol causes heart disease, and all of that is fading away, it’s dying a political death, which means we we don’t talk about it and nobody comes out and says we were wrong. So that’s really the false demonization of fat and cholesterol, is how we got here, and the free access to sugar, “Oh, it must be fine. If it doesn’t have the cholesterol, Skittles are these candies they’ve pure sugar, but they’re good for the heart.” No, no, no, no. So that shift is called a paradigm shift though, and it takes time. In fact, it takes maybe half a generation of people who are taught a certain way, and now are no longer are in practice.

Dr. Eric Westman:

And the younger people grow up familiar with the idea that sugar is bad, and that the sugar and insulin connection, and that the [inaudible 00:21:48] feeling bad, the rollercoaster of sugar and insulin is something that’s very real. And you can actually help people by understanding that, we tried to communicate it just as quickly as we could. And I just have to say, we don’t have a reference. We don’t have one reference, meaning a scientific citation. We did that on purpose. This is solid science. Who wants to look up, it’s a distraction when you’re reading. So that was on purpose that we… Did you notice we didn’t have any scientific reference?

Carole Freeman:

I didn’t notice that, no.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Good. Excellent. It’s the way we want it.

Amy Berger:

I’m a little nervous. I’m like, “We’re going to take a lot of criticism because of that.” But I think anytime you write anything about anything, you’re going to take criticism, but then I had to remind myself, nothing that we say is controversial. We don’t need to back anything up because like we were saying before, we don’t even demonize carbohydrate. We don’t say that bread is bad for you. “What is your medical situation? Maybe you can have bread and it’s fine.” But was a little odd to write a book and not… Especially as a nutritionist and not a doctor, I’m so used to feeling like I have to back up everything I say. Like, “Well, this study says…” That’s a little interesting.

Carole Freeman:

Now I’m going to go back and re-look again and notice that there is not that, but your knowledge is-

Dr. Eric Westman:

[inaudible 00:23:24]

Carole Freeman:

… based on lots of solid research, which is the point that Dr. Westman [crosstalk 00:23:27].

Dr. Eric Westman:

A lot of people will write a diet book and there’s not solid science, and they find these references that really have no relation to what they’re talking about. It’s like if there’re all these references they’re protesting. There’s that saying that we think they protest it’s too much. Say there are all these studies… Well, anyway, the solid science says that once you get to a certain place, you don’t have to be, “Oh, well, let’s see, there’s a paper. There’s a paper.” The diet world, as long as there’s one person against it, the news media will find them, and then suddenly there’s controversy. So this is not really controversial anymore.

Carole Freeman:

I think everyone in your neighborhood is honking in support of ending the carb confusion.

Dr. Eric Westman:

It must be.

Amy Berger:

I live just a few miles from him and there’s nothing where I live, thank goodness, because I can’t take the noise, but it’s [crosstalk 00:24:29] where I live.

Dr. Eric Westman:

I’m sorry about that. [crosstalk 00:24:33]

Amy Berger:

I was just flipping through this and I was reminded that, something else that I like about our book is, again keto is so known for weight loss, but our book really, even the cover has nothing about weight, the subtitle and the title say nothing about weight, it says optimal health. And at the end of each chapter, there’s a real-life success story of a person that we know that ate this way and reversed all kinds of health issues, and many of them do talk about weight, but it’s weight and PCOS or migraines or binge eating or fatty liver, or all kinds of other things.

Amy Berger:

And we do have two or three stories from people that were athletic, or lean their whole life, but discovered that, “I’m an athlete and I’m not overweight. Oh my God, I have pre-diabetes. How did that happen?” So I think that’s nice too, we emphasize that weight is only one aspect of what happens when your metabolism is wonky.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. I love that you guys talk about insulin, because it’s good to see, back when we could still go to conferences and things like that, that people are starting to talk about insulin as the driver for a lot of chronic illness and disease. I enjoyed Dr. Ben Bikman’s book that just came out in 2020 as well, which is Why We Get Sick, talk to all about insulin, but you guys did addressed that as well. So can you talk just briefly about, how insulin is the primary driver? Why when people lose weight, these other things get better too?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Yeah. It’s so old that you can’t get study funded just to look at insulin. It’s so important, again, it’s not controversial. The problem is most doctors don’t measure insulin. So we’re left with measuring glucose, that’s the sugars and stuff. The blood sugar or glucose up, insulin goes up to keep the blood sugar down, but insulin tells your body to make fat, store fat, and is also pro-inflammatory. So another side of doing a low-carb diet is the anti-inflammatory effects that you get by lowering the insulin levels. And we don’t go deep dive into it, don’t worry, it’s not too technical, but it’s important to mention that, and as many people are pointing out, including Ben Bikman, the full picture can’t just be seen by measuring the blood glucose. You really need the blood glucose and the blood insulin. And back in the old days, you would actually give some sugar, and check the blood glucose and the insulin over a three or four-hour period, to see how your body responds to the blood sugar. Very few doctors do that anymore, and I don’t do that because it’s not going to change what I do.

Dr. Eric Westman:

But if you really wanted more information about glucose and insulin, you’d do more extensive testing, but it’s important to know that it’s not just about the blood sugar or blood glucose.

Carole Freeman:

And I’ve had my clients almost fighting with their doctor, “Just please let me get my insulin tested.” They don’t even know what to do with it too. But actually it was my last interview with Amy that she told me about directlabs.com, so now I’ve been able to help them, empower them to be able to just order their own labs. And interestingly, my clients were saying, “This is cheaper than my copay through my insurance to get this done.”

Amy Berger:

It’s cheap. Last time I checked, it was $34 for a fasting insulin from [crosstalk 00:28:21]

Carole Freeman:

$26 west of the country.

Amy Berger:

Oh, yeah. Unfortunately I think if you’re in New York, New Jersey and maybe Rhode Island, there’s a couple of states where it’s not legal to order your own stuff, but most of them it can be done.

Carole Freeman:

Thank you for that [crosstalk 00:28:44]

Amy Berger:

I send people there all the time for the… I always talk about thyroid panels. A lot of doctors don’t want to do the full thyroid panel. There it’s worth every penny and it’s not really that expensive.

Dr. Eric Westman:

So the insulin story is really just getting out here, Dr. Bikman’s book is going to help a lot. And it’s just not in the current way of thinking of most doctors, even internists, even endocrinologists. So you may have to take matters into your own hands with $50, $35, $20, and check some of these on your own. And fortunately, we explained a little bit about, we don’t get into those levels and all that detail, but just the general knowledge that you want to keep the insulin as low as possible. Now that is getting more traction in the deep research world, like if you study mice and all that. It’s known as a fasting mimicking diet, actually where you don’t eat much for a while and your insulin goes way down, you get all those benefits, and that happens on a keto low-carb diet too.

Dr. Eric Westman:

It’s a fasting type of diet, so you get the benefits of fasting, the fat burning and metabolism, while you’re still eating food. But that’s a hard thing to… “Oh no, that’s fasting.” No, fasting is fat burning. And that happens when you’re actually eating protein and very low amount of carbs. So, if you hear fasting has this benefit and that benefit, you’re actually getting that benefit on a keto diet.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. That reminds me of a fun question, I get this all the time is, what can I eat or drink and still be fasting?

Amy Berger:

What can I eat while I’m fasting?

Carole Freeman:

Yeah.

Amy Berger:

What can I do to be awake while I’m sleeping?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Another common questions is [crosstalk 00:30:51].

Amy Berger:

Are you awake or you’re sleeping? Are you eating or are you fasting? No, it’s a fair question though, and I don’t think we address that in the book. Because we have an FAQ, and we do address, is fast required? And of course the answer is no, but it depends on how you define fasting. If you’re just skipping a meal or eating only once or twice a day because you’re only hungry once or twice a day, to me that’s not fasting, that’s just eating normally because you eat when you’re hungry and when you’re not hungry, but you don’t eat just because, “Oh, it’s breakfast time I should eat.” But the whole goal of fasting, from a metabolic point of view, I’m not talking about a serious medical issue that may be somebody is using fasting, medically supervised, but just metabolically speaking, in my opinion, the main point of fasting is to get your blood sugar down and keep it nice and low, or get your insulin down, keep it nice and low.

Amy Berger:

And like Dr. Westman was saying, if you do keto the right way, that happens on keto anyway. But with that in mind, you can drink coffee, and in my opinion, you can drink coffee and still consider yourself fasting, even if you’re putting a little splash of cream or… Even if some people want to push a meal an extra two or three hours later, rather than eat at their normal mealtime or whatever, I do think you can eat half an ounce of walnuts, or an ounce of macadamia nuts, something that is basically zero-carb and close to zero-protein, something that’s almost pure fat, because I’ve done this.

Amy Berger:

For psychological reasons, if I want to fast for a day or two, just to see if I can do it, I will do that, and I’ll consider myself still in a fasting state, because metabolically speaking, an ounce or half an ounce of walnuts or macadamia nuts is going to do nothing to your blood sugar and insulin, and to me, that’s what you want to do with fasting. You want to stay in that state and that kind of stuff is not going to push you out, I don’t think. So, coffee, tea, water…

Dr. Eric Westman:

So the problem comes in in the practical reality that some people can’t limit themselves to that much.

Amy Berger:

Of course, yeah.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Of course, these are people who come to my clinics so that if you have a difficult time moderating any of these things, then the easiest teaching is to say, “Don’t have it.” But then it becomes too depriving. I can see why a lot of people say, “No, you can’t.” But then it keeps people away from it, and then we try to teach, “Well, it’s the metabolic state that you’re in, a little bit won’t interfere with that.” “But when I have the little bit of cream, it turns into a lot of bits of cream.” “Well then, okay, you can’t have that.”

Amy Berger:

Well I say, “You have to know yourself.”

Dr. Eric Westman:

Those are the trigger food concepts. It’s interesting that nuts and cream and oils and even pork rinds in my area, these puffed up big skins become trigger foods and people can’t stop, and you just have to be aware that that’s pretty much a universal thing. We all have our trigger foods and buttons that you just got to stay away from those things for a while.

Amy Berger:

I myself recently, a little personal confession here, I had to move… I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of this concept of green light, yellow light and red light foods. Green light food is something you have no problem with, you can eat it, it’s fun. Red light food is a food that you know is a trigger food. Like some people [inaudible 00:34:30] peanut butter or something like, “I can’t have just one spoonful, I’m going to have a whole jar.” So that’s a red light food for you. Pork rinds for me, used to be a green light food, now, they were a red light food and there was no passing through yellow because my serving is the bag. Whether that’s the little snack size bag or the family size bag, my serving is the bag. So now my serving is zero, there’s no pork rinds ever.

Dr. Eric Westman:

So, someone reads the book, we actually have three specific phases or categories or whatever [inaudible 00:35:08], we call it phase one, phase two and phase three. So I think, of all of the things I have, this is unique in that all of the books we’ve read, and because we’ve been positioned in the keto world, we’re not afraid of saying, “Yeah, you can do keto forever, here are the things you need to watch out for, and yeah, you can have some carbs forever.”

Dr. Eric Westman:

So what we’re trying to do is help with the practical reality of what carbs you can eat, what carb levels, but also the day-to-day things we’ve learned from working with people with keto, and these practical things often are the little devil’s in the details they say. And often as you coach someone, you get to know what they’re having, you get a sense for, “Okay, certain domain of this is a pasta, bread sort of thing.” Have you heard of chaffles? That chaffle is the greatest bread substitute or substitution. It came on the keto world maybe 18, 20 months ago or so. I was interviewing for Woman’s World, they did an article on the cheese and egg waffle. You’ve never had a chaffle Carole?

Carole Freeman:

Oh no, I have. It’s just that you got me interviewed for Woman’s World for chaffles is just funny to me. It’s amazing because it’s like cheese and eggs make a waffle, when you see the mixture together, you’re like, “That’s not going to be…” And it’s like, “Oh my gosh, how’s that happened? It’s magic in the little waffle iron.” So I love that you guys you’re looking at individual carb tolerance from two different ways. So one is a metabolic place, where you have a different carb tolerance, depending on where you are metabolically and that can change over your lifetime, but as Amy’s been talking about, and Dr. Westman too, that there’s also the psychological, knowing yourself, right? The red light, yellow light, green light foods, there may be some foods that just don’t work for you personally, even though other carbs may work for you too.

Carole Freeman:

So I love that you’re addressing that. It’s not that, here’s the one-size-fits-all diet for every single person, here’s the food you’re going to eat and here’s the foods you’re not going to eat, and there you go.

Amy Berger:

Right. And even the keto foods, like we were just saying, there’s a reason not… A Dr. Westman’s famous page four diet, that’s what our phase one is an endocrine confusion. There’s a reason nuts and seeds aren’t allowed, and it’s not that they’re not suitable for keto, they are. It’s just that it’s like the number one most common trigger food or binge food, I always joke you get that bag from Trader Joe’s and you sit down on the couch and before you know it, half the bag’s gone, “How did that happen? Oh my God.” If you are the rare person that can have the one ounce of almonds and put the bag away, have the almonds. And same thing with cheese, cheese is limited for the same reason. Cheese, it’s perfectly fine for low-carb or keto, it’s just so easy to overdo. So it’s not just the high-carb foods that we have to watch out for, you just have to know, for you… And because there are people that can have one little square of cheese and put the block away. So you have to know where you fall on that spectrum.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Yeah.

Carole Freeman:

I remember Dr. Westman in Austin, Texas, and this probably was about three years ago, I’m going to guess. After the conference you were talking about the things that people crave, and clinically that you’ve noticed when somebody says, “I crave bread.” And then when you question them, “Well, what are you eating?” Do you want to share a little bit about your…

Dr. Eric Westman:

You want me to give away all my secrets? Is that it?

Carole Freeman:

Yep.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, ask me if I crave fruit.

Carole Freeman:

Do you crave fruit Dr. Westman?

Dr. Eric Westman:

No, I don’t eat fruit. “Oh.” And of course there’s that initial, “You don’t eat fruit?” “Well, no, I’ve done this 20 years. It doesn’t tug at me anymore.” But then, Amy, do you crave cigarettes?

Amy Berger:

I don’t smoke.

Dr. Eric Westman:

No, because you don’t smoke. That’s right. So when someone comes in and says, I ask, “Are you having hunger?” “Yes.” “Oh, well, what are you craving?” “Oh, bread.” I know they’re eating bread. Because you don’t crave it if you don’t eat it. At first I don’t really… I’m always supportive, that’s a big part of what we do. I have to say the book is written, thank you, Amy, in a way that’s very supportive. And if anything, we bend over backwards to help solve this problem, which is really a difficult one for so many people. So if you’re craving something, it means you’re having it.

Carole Freeman:

Yes. Or you’ve recently had it.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Yeah, you’ve recently had it.

Carole Freeman:

I love that. In other part of the book… well, I’ll get to that in a second, but you’ve got a questionnaire in there that helps you find your carb threshold. Because like you said, you’ve got the three different phases that are different carb recommendations for those phases, the questionnaire that you have in your book, how did that come to be? can you share a little bit of some of the highlights of how somebody would know maybe where they fall?

Dr. Eric Westman:

So the big theme here is trying to keep things simple. So we don’t go into, what’s your blood test level and all that. We have it into categories of syndromes or symptoms, so that you can take this simple checklist, and you’ll see how many are in each column, and then that puts you into one of three categories in terms of carb tolerance, or how many carbs you should have to begin with, and it works pretty well. So we’ve studied low-glycemic diets, we’ve studied actually higher carb, low-fat diets, and we studied keto diets and people sort out into these three different categories. And we tried to make it easy with, if you have a medical thing like diabetes, high blood pressure, PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome, you fall into the, you probably should do keto, the therapeutic level of carb restriction or low-carb diets.

Dr. Eric Westman:

But if you’re like my brother who only had 20 pounds to lose, and he’s never had a problem with weight, and he’s 60, then he falls into phase three where he could eat more carbs and could still get the benefit of avoiding sugar in a big way, which is a theme of the book.

Carole Freeman:

We’ve got a question from Robin, she’s up in Canada and wondering, when is the book going to be available in general, and is that different than when it will be available in Canada? And the book, Robin, the book is called, End Your Carb Confusion. There we go.

Amy Berger:

End Your Carb Confusion. We have friends in Canada that have already ordered it. So you might be able to find it on Amazon in Canada already.

Carole Freeman:

Okay.

Dr. Eric Westman:

And the release-

Amy Berger:

I find this interesting. Please do consider pre-ordering because our publisher tells us that all the pre-orders count toward the first week sales, and those initial sales are critical to potentially hitting some kind of best seller list or something, but it’s called, End Your Carb Confusion.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Release date is December 15.

Amy Berger:

Yes, totally love that part, thank you.

Dr. Eric Westman:

But that’s when it’ll be mailed if you pre-order it, right?

Amy Berger:

Yeah. The release date, at least in the U.S. is December 15th, I’m not sure if it’s the same in Canada, but it’s available for pre-order in Canada right now. And that checklist Dr. Weston was talking about, let’s not lie to people, most people will be pointed toward the keto level at least to start with, but then there’s a whole section on how to gradually transition, if it’s appropriate for you and when it’s appropriate, “How do I start incorporating more of those carbs?” And even the highest level, our level three, is I think 150 grams of carbs a day, which sounds like a lot to those of us that do very, very low-carbo keto, but 150 grams of carbs, it’s lower than most people are eating. But let’s say a big potato is maybe 50 grams, a big potato.

Amy Berger:

That’s still gives you 100 grams of carbs to play with. 100 grams of carbs buys you a lot of eggplant and zucchini and blueberries, and even, shhh, a little bit of rice, or a little bit of beans. At that level when you’re active and healthy and lean, but it’s still carbohydrate controlled, we would say. You can’t go to town on every sugar and starch in site. So the mindset is always on your carbohydrate tolerance, but that higher level is more generous, and you’ll find on that checklist, it just depends on what your health issues are, that where you should start. And [crosstalk 00:44:48], we make a point of saying that even if you’re filling out the checklist and it says, “Hey, guess what? You could start at level three, you don’t need to go that low-carb.” We encourage everyone to start at the keto level, because all three of us know that when you are actually in ketosis, you might feel and experience things that you don’t get with more carbs, even if you’re healthy and you’re fit and lean.

Amy Berger:

Some people just find they have sharper thinking, their mood is better, acid reflux. So even if you have a higher carb tolerance, we want you to start at the low level, just to see what happens, and you might have little weird things, that you don’t even realize you have till they’re gone. Like, “Hey, wait. My knee doesn’t hurt anymore. My knee usually hurts when it’s going to rain.” Or like, “Hey, I haven’t had a headache in three weeks.” Whatever it is that’s… So it’s helpful to start at the low level, but you don’t have to if you don’t want to.

Carole Freeman:

Wonderful. There’s tons to love about the book, but the last thing I love about the book is appendix A, which is all about how to actually get medical care of people, doctors, nurses, practitioners in general, that are supportive of lowering carbs, the big category of lower carb and/or keto. So I love that you have that section in there. Actually, the last interview I did was with Dr. Jeffrey Gerber, and I talked to him about that, because that’s an ongoing thing with a lot of my clients is, “My doctor thinks keto is going to kill me, how do I find somebody, how do I get the right care?” So I love that you have that in there. Do we both speak about how to help people find support for their choice of doing a keto low-carb approach?

Dr. Eric Westman:

Yeah, and it’s important to know the barriers for safe use, so this is therapeutic and I take people off drugs. I take them off 10 drugs over time, I might have to reduce a drug on the first day, So it’s not that the diet is bad and harmful, it’s these drugs can become too harmful. So we make a strong, urge you, if you have medical problems to get advice, and we don’t just say, “Just find your doctor.” We have now lists of places and the growing number of doctors who are keto-friendly, it’s called. But the important thing is, if your doctor’s not supportive, it’s like they just haven’t kept up with the research and literature, and we’re working hard to teach as many people as we can, but it’s a slow process.

Amy Berger:

But I will say, it’s really encouraging that I know Dr. Westman’s clinic is here in Durham, North Carolina, but you’ve had people come from overseas. Doctors from other countries come to visit your clinic to learn what you do. That’s encouraging that this is happening, but probably unfortunately more people from overseas than even from the U.S., but I know people flock to your clinic to learn about this. So it’s more and more doctors and nurse practitioners, or other sort of allied health professionals are coming to it, but it’s still small, but it is growing.

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, that was another reason for the book is the inordinate waiting time to come to see a doctor like me in the clinic, and then that means you don’t have access to the information, if you have to wait to see me in the clinic and get my handouts. So, we’re trying to treat just as many people, inform as many people as we can, and that is one reason for the book to eliminate confusion, get the information to more people, and to keep things simple.

Carole Freeman:

I don’t know if you’ve heard him say it or not, but here’s Dr. Gerber’s fun little phrase that he recommends that, if your doctor freaks out about keto, just say you’re doing a low carb Mediterranean diet and usually go, “Oh, that sounds wonderful.”

Dr. Eric Westman:

Well, that’s healthy.

Amy Berger:

And no wonder, I’ve told my clients just say that you cut out sugar and refined carbs. No medical professional can argue with that. You don’t have to say, “I’m pouring MCT oil into my coffee and I’m eating rhubarb with…” You don’t have to say that part. Don’t [inaudible 00:49:27] part out loud, as they say. Just say, “I’m just eating better. I’m eating whole real food.” And who’s going to argue with that?

Carole Freeman:

Right, because there’s the preconceived notion of what keto looks like, but then you actually like a plate of food. The meal plans, suggestions, ideas that you have in the book are all like, “If you saw that plated.” And you’re like, “That just looks like a healthy plate of food. It doesn’t look like some crazy diet.”

Amy Berger:

Right.

Dr. Eric Westman:

I remember some years ago I was giving him my first research poster, I won’t say how many years it was, but there was a young researcher with the same data, and same doing the keto diet study, and I said, “Aren’t you worried about the diet?” And he looked at me and he said, “Doc, it’s just food, I’m not going to hurt anybody.” I was like, “Wow, that’s brilliant.” Because we come in with all of these false prejudices, really, and I’ve heard the same criticisms for 20 years now that haven’t been… They’re unfounded criticisms.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah, I’ve had the same thing where, mom-clients of mine, they’re like, “Ooh, my kid really likes this food. Is it safe for them to eat it too?” I said, “Meat and vegetables? Is that okay for a kid to eat?” And they’re like, “Oh, well, when you put it that way.”

Amy Berger:

This is why I like… We all know Ken Berry. Ken Berry calls it the proper human diet. “Is it safe for my kid?” “Can my child eat the proper human diet?” Or my husband’s in the military. “Can the troops eat the proper human diet?” When you frame it like that, well what… And you know what kills me? No pun intended. No one asks, “Is it safe for my child to eat a bowl of sugary cereal with a glass of liquid sugar, orange juice, and then a fat-free bran muffin.” Which is nothing but sugar. Nobody asks, is that safe, but, “Is it’s safe for my child to eat a chicken pie with roasted broccoli?”

Carole Freeman:

That’s a [inaudible 00:51:33].

Amy Berger:

How did we get to this point?

Carole Freeman:

Oh, it’s a crazy world that we’re in. Oh my gosh, this has been so much fun, I love having you guys and chatting, and I miss seeing you guys in-person too. But just in wrapping this up, what last points that you want to make about the book or keto in general, or optimal health or anything? Throw something at me.

Dr. Eric Westman:

It’s really exciting to see the keto take off and help so many people, and we actually have another venue, it’s Adapt Your Life Academy, which is the first masterclass we’re doing, is a keto made simple masterclass with videos that I did, and if you want a deeper dive into how we got here, and learn about the grassroots movement, we’re going to roll that out in just a few weeks, in November. So we have different ways of teaching this, and that’s really my goal, is to get this information to as many people as possible in different ways.

Carole Freeman:

Excellent. [crosstalk 00:52:44]

Amy Berger:

For me I would just say, I think one of the biggest selling points of the book is that it’s written in plain English. You’re not going to need the book, and then also a dictionary side-by-side. This is very easy to understand, you don’t need a PhD to get through, it’s very plain language. I tried to make it that way anyway, that I think it’s plain language.

Dr. Eric Westman:

We did.

Amy Berger:

[crosstalk 00:53:13] we think, yeah.

Carole Freeman:

One of your many talents, Amy, is writing in a way that’s very engaging and makes you want to just keep turning pages.

Amy Berger:

Thank you.

Carole Freeman:

Well, thank you both for being here, Amy Berger, Dr. Eric Westman, thank you so much for taking the time, I’m so excited. Congrats on your new book coming out, and just adding to your list of amazing, wonderful things, information you put out there in the world and helping change the health of this world. We’ve got the ship going in the wrong direction the last 60 years, and we’ve got to turn it around 180 degrees, so it takes time. So I’m glad you’re out there doing the hard work.

Amy Berger:

Well, thank you very much Carole-

Dr. Eric Westman:

Thank you Carole.

Amy Berger:

… Always good to see you.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. All right. Well, thanks everyone for watching. If you’ve enjoyed this, subscribe, give us a thumbs up. Give us a comment of your takeaway during this interview. So thanks for watching everyone, we’ll see you next time, bye.

Get a FREE 7-day Fast & Easy Keto Meal Plan: https://ketocarole.com/free-7-day-meal-plan/

Keto Chat Episode 129: Why You Should NOT Use Hypnosis for Weight Loss

About Jim Kellner

Jim Kellner overcame severe stage fright, introversion, and being ‘painfully shy’ to become recognized as a dynamic and charismatic entertainer and speaker.

He used hypnosis to overcome severe depression, a lack of motivation, and to lose over 60 lbs remaking his life completely. He then pursued a childhood dream in becoming a hypnotherapist and has helped thousands of people change their lives.

He is a professional comedy stage hypnotist and speaker. To learn more about hypnosis check out his TEDx talk, ‘If You Can’t Be Hypnotized, You Lose’. And for something fun check out ‘Kids Meet A Hypnotist.’

Connect with Jim:

  • Facebook.com/MentalMagicHypnosis
  • Linkedin.com/in/JimKellner
  • JimKellnerHypnotist.com

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Transcript:

Carole Freeman:
And we’re live. Welcome everyone to our Keto Lifestyle crew second guest expert of the month. You guys, I promised you that you would get one guest expert a month. And this month, we’re giving you two of them. Oh my gosh.

Jim Kellner:
What? It’s great.

Carole Freeman:
Okay. There may be some people watching this later that don’t know who the heck we are right now. My name is Carole Freeman, and I am a keto nutritionist. I specialize in working with women 40 plus to follow a keto lifestyle for sustainable weight loss. That’s what I wanted. Lifestyle for lifestyle. You wanted to have a lifestyle. Anyways. And today, I’m here with my very good friend, hypnotist Jim Kellner.

Jim Kellner:
Yay. Thank you, Carole.

Carole Freeman:
Welcome, welcome. You know what, I’m going to do something that I always hate on podcasts and interviews. They always say and I’m going to … Well, we were talking before we went live. Well, that’s what I’m going to say right now.

Carole Freeman:
Jim and I were talking before I went live, and we were reminiscing about when we actually met. So currently, I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I just moved here three months ago. Jim is in Seattle, correct? And we met about five years ago when he lived in Phoenix, I lived in Seattle. It was my first time going to Phoenix or Arizona, and we’re getting hearts already. This must be your lady that’s watching that we’re getting a heart from.

Carole Freeman:
I traveled to meet another friend, and I reached out to Jim and I said, “Hey, while I’m down there …” We were Facebook friends, I’ve never met in person. I did one of my earliest keto chat episodes with you. We’ve come full circle. We just switched places in the world.

Jim Kellner:
Right. It used to be me having breakfast by the pool.

Carole Freeman:
Yes. Oh, gosh, that’s a sore subject right now, but anyways …

Jim Kellner:
[inaudible 00:02:16]. I just want to share with you. You really introduced me to the whole keto thing, because I’ve been paleo and things like that. And then I remember when we did our keto chat, I told you that I would love to try it, but I’m eating hash browns every single day. And you said, “Could you do? Could you just skip the hash browns for 30 days?” And I was like, “Yes.”

Carole Freeman:
And it transformed. So, when I met you, you had already lost what, like 40, 50 pounds or something?

Jim Kellner:
I think I was down about 50. Yeah. I ended up going down about 70, and then [crosstalk 00:02:53]. Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Wow. So, the hash browns dropped another 20 pounds, huh?

Jim Kellner:
Yeah. In fact, it’s so funny because people are always afraid they’re going to miss things. And sometimes I do, but I certainly don’t miss having hash browns every single day. I didn’t think it would be possible, really. I become so addicted to it.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, wow. And so that shows a possibility. As practitioners, I’m sure that you can see the possibility for everyone else that you’re working with as a hypnotist, but then when you try to shine that light on yourself, you’re like, “Oh, wait, I guess I can do that too.”

Jim Kellner:
Right. Well, because I was told the story too. Before that, when I first started taking off the weight, I was eating ice cream every single day. Every single night, I sit down with a big bowl or two of ice cream, and I had this thought I was like, “I will never be able to lose weight because I have to have ice cream every day.”

Carole Freeman:
Oh, gosh. Look, people only knew how bad I ate before. I mean, I ate mostly whole foods. I would make my own ice cream. But even before that, ice cream every night. I’m pretty sure. Yeah. It was like, “Look at the carton, which one got you the most for the least money so you can have the biggest portion and the most sugar?”

Jim Kellner:
[crosstalk 00:04:14] thing that was … Yeah. And the thing is too, people are always like, “Oh, I’m going to miss out on all these things.” After a while, you don’t even miss it. I went literally months, years without even thinking about ice cream. It’s crazy.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. Well, let’s start off officially with sharing a little bit about … Will you share with our audience why you’re so amazing and why I’m so excited that you’re here?

Jim Kellner:
Well, it’s the bald head I think is probably the main thing. I’m a world renowned hypnotist and that’s probably it. I think the reason that we’re chatting today is because I’ve used hypnosis myself to change my life. I mean, you wouldn’t even recognize me from who I was years ago. Not just physically, mentally, emotionally, everything.

Jim Kellner:
And then I discovered that if I could do that for myself, I said, “Hey, could I do that for other people?” So, I took the training and, yeah, what do you know, I could help other people and now I felt … I mean, literally thousands of people change their lives using just the power of their own mind, really.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. Most people have no idea what hypnosis really is. They’ve seen the make me quack like a duck on a stage or something, or the movies like Shallow Hal or something like that. Basically, what is hypnosis? Is that this magic thing, that fairy dust that you’re making people do stuff?

Jim Kellner:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
Amazon Prime, is that how you get the fairy dust?

Jim Kellner:
Yes. Don’t [crosstalk 00:05:55].

Carole Freeman:
Okay.

Jim Kellner:
I’ve got an affiliate link for it. The first thing that I would say to people is everything that you’ve ever seen in a movie or TV show about hypnosis, throw it out, it’s not true.

Carole Freeman:
What’s the other office word too?

Jim Kellner:
Wait.

Carole Freeman:
Office Space. That’s it.

Jim Kellner:
Office Space. Yes. [crosstalk 00:06:19], but totally inaccurate. If I have a heart attack during the session, you will not get stuck or anything like that. This brings up a really interesting point too, because when we’re talking about the kind of stuff that …

Jim Kellner:
See, the legitimate stuff that you will often see for stage or for street hypnosis is different than what happens in hypnotherapeutic sense, because the goals are different. And people will ask me, “Well, how can you be so funny, but then still help people change?” It’s because we’re just using the same tool for different things. And the tool of hypnosis is a way to communicate with the other than conscious mind.

Jim Kellner:
Once we do that, then we can use it to make people laugh, or we can help people to change their life with quitting smoking, losing weight, whatever.

Carole Freeman:
Tell us more about the hypnotic state. Is that really hard to get into? I’m baiting with questions here, but …

Jim Kellner:
I know. Yeah. You know the answers. [crosstalk 00:07:24].

Carole Freeman:
I’m trying to dispel a lot of the myths that are out there.

Jim Kellner:
Yeah. I don’t know how many people know, but Carole is actually a trained hypnotherapist as well, so she knows the answers, but she’s helping us out. So, I’ll tell you. I hope that’s okay to say. I don’t know. Are you trying to hide that?

Carole Freeman:
Nope. Not at all.

Jim Kellner:
Good. This is one of the most frustrating things that I run into is when people say, “Well, I can’t be hypnotized.” Actually, it’s not even frustrating anymore, because it’s just par for the course. Listen, if you’re watching right now, nearly every single one of you thinks you can’t be hypnotized. You can.

Jim Kellner:
Once you actually understand what hypnosis is, you realize that it’s not this weird, magical sort of a place that only weak willed people or anything like that can do, that can experience. It really is just a state of mind, and we’re all going into hypnosis all the time, we just don’t call it hypnosis.

Jim Kellner:
When we’re driving down the freeway, we miss our exit, we zoned out, that really is … That’s the same place with hypnosis. The only difference is when you’re working with me, you’ve got a guy whispering in your ear. “You love healthy food and exercise, whatever.” Whereas I’m probably not doing that when you’re driving down the car, driving down the road as well.

Carole Freeman:
Yes, that’s the one time you should not be listening to hypnosis recordings is while you’re driving or operating heavy equipment.

Jim Kellner:
Right. Exactly.

Carole Freeman:
Disclaimer on the bottle.

Jim Kellner:
Exactly. Once people get that, and it’s frustrating too, because on my TEDx talk, I did a demonstration. If you haven’t seen that, check it out for more information on hypnosis. It’s called, “If you can’t be hypnotized, you lose.”

Jim Kellner:
One of the frustrating things that I did in that was I did a little demonstration. So, I had people lock their hands together, and I tried to explain it very well that not everyone can experience that type of hypnotic phenomenon every single time in every situation. Some people, they can’t stay focused long enough. They just don’t experience hypnosis in that way. But again, we’re using it for different things.

Jim Kellner:
And so I’ve had people that will watch that video, Carole. They’ll say, “Oh, my hands didn’t stick together, so I guess I can’t be hypnotized.” I’m like, “No, you missed the point there.”

Jim Kellner:
So, the other thing that I would like to say too, because I get this question sometimes, I remember this one woman who was telling me, “Well, how are you going to hypnotize me remotely? I’ve seen all your videos.” And I’m like, “What are you talking about?” She was like, “I saw all your videos. How are you going to hypnotize me remotely?”

Jim Kellner:
And I realized that the reason she was saying that was because all the videos that most videos you’re going to see online are me doing either street hypnosis or stage hypnosis, because it’s boring to watch hypnotherapy.

Jim Kellner:
They’re sitting in a chair and I’m talking to them, I’m going, “That’s right. Relax more.” That’s boring, so I don’t post those videos. I probably did. And so she’s going, “How are you going to shake my hand and go, ‘Sleep?’ Or tap me on the head and make me sleep?” And I’m like, “No, it’s different. It’s like a hammer. Sometimes we use it to hammer in a nail, sometimes we use the hammer to pull it out different tools, or different uses for one tool.”

Carole Freeman:
All right. So, those of you watching … Oh, I’m saying this now, go and pop your questions in the comments. Jim is here to answer questions and also to be of service. Let’s see. I got to come up with the question that’s going to make the headline for this, so I’m going to keep thinking about what that is, because it’s got to be one of the biggest things contrary to what people think that you would say about hypnosis. I got to think of that. We got to come up with a click bait headline for this.

Jim Kellner:
I’ll tell you that the headline that gets the most views on my YouTube channel is girl hypnotized at beach.

Carole Freeman:
All right. Let’s see. Whoops, this is backwards, so I can never point at it this way. So, there’s the beach.

Jim Kellner:
There’s the beach.

Carole Freeman:
I probably won’t volunteer, but we’ll actually do some … We’ll do a sample session. We did that last time too, just the embedded relaxation. So, as you’re watching here, this is your opportunity to vote for the topic that you will. We’re going to put Jim on the spot, spot hypnosis. Well, it’s going to be different than the beach hypnosis, actually. If you guys don’t vote, I’m going to pick the topic too. So, what kind of things is hypnosis good for?

Jim Kellner:
Well, as you know, we’re traditionally known for losing weight and quitting smoking. That’s what most of the work that I did, when I first started out was that. I’ll tell you, it’s interesting, because I frequently get people asking questions, “Could hypnosis help me with this or that?”

Jim Kellner:
When you understand hypnosis, you understand that it can help us with … Just about anything that you can think about that any kind of behavior you have, it can affect it, because we’re actually operating at the mind level, and that’s where your habits are at. That’s where your ways of thinking are stored.

Jim Kellner:
And so once I can communicate with that, we can kind of … I can help you to change it in a way. And so while most of my appointment, my stuff in the past was weight loss and smoking, now I do those, of course, but I just finished up with a client who has anger issues. She was blowing up in her spouse all the time.

Jim Kellner:
And it’s funny, we have three sessions, we did our wrap up call, the final coaching session, and she’s just like, “I don’t understand why, but it’s just gone now.” This anger. Hypnosis is kind of a weird thing. It’s not like a lightning bolt moment for most people. It’s not like, “Oh, I’m cured.” It just sort of happens in a way that is kind of confusing for people.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, I love that. Yeah. Because actually, as I’m working with people for weight loss, what I say is it peels back the onion layers. They may peel a few pounds off five, 10 or 20 pounds, but often underneath that, there are other issues, almost always. There’s not an exception.

Carole Freeman:
The exception that there’s nothing behind the excess weight for people psychologically or emotionally is they just don’t know it. They’re not aware of it, so there’s always something else going on. It’s never just because you just like ice cream. I don’t know. Maybe for you.

Jim Kellner:
If I can just add to that, there’s always that people … I don’t think anyone becomes significantly overweight just because food tastes so damn good. [crosstalk 00:14:28] something else going on. Or under 10 pounds maybe from just being lazy or whatever, maybe even 20. To become significantly overweight, there’s always something else going on.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. It’s because food is so numbing and soothing. We just learned from a young age that it’s a very effective tool for making us, helping us escape our feelings or stress or a lot of different things. So, it could just be mild things that we go through, normal human things. It just becomes a habit that we engage in too much, too often.

Carole Freeman:
So, I love that hypnosis is a really, really great tool for those other layers of the onion. So, either working on them before you start to engage in a weight loss, dietary change, or as you are losing the weight and as those things come up, so anger is a big one.

Carole Freeman:
And it’s especially hard for women, right? Because as women, we’re taught, “Be lady like. Don’t get angry.” And so have you seen that in practice that a lot of your women clients actually have a lot of bottled up anger that they’re afraid to express?

Jim Kellner:
It’s so funny you mentioned that, because I actually had a client one time who I did this process. She was kind of a mild woman, soft spoken. We tried a couple of things. I try to avoid anything that’s going to cause … A lot of times, in a lot of schools of thought for hypnosis, the regression to cause is their go to. So, it does go back to what cause it.

Jim Kellner:
I try to avoid anything like that unless I have to, because I’d rather … If I can avoid kind of bringing on some uncomfortableness, I will do that. But this one, we got to a couple of things. I said, “Well, let’s try some of this.” So, I did this technique. I said “Look, you may be uncomfortable for the next few weeks as stuff comes out.” She came back in three weeks and she goes, “I have been a raving bee for the last month.”

Jim Kellner:
She goes, “I actually brought up things with my husband that happened on our honeymoon that made her angry.” It’s uncomfortable, but it freed her. Once all that was out, then she could kind of go on. So, yeah, there’s a lot of people with a lot of repressed stuff. As far as the other stuff that we can help, I mean, somebody with too much sweating, memory for going to med school, anxiety, of course. I mean, really, if you can think it, we can probably address it.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, it’s so great. Yeah, I love learning the fact that all of our body functions are controlled by our subconscious mind. That’s why hypnosis can change things like sweating, the bodily functions. I’ve heard of people that’s been able to lower their blood pressure and other things.

Carole Freeman:
A long time ago, I did help somebody that had a lot of test anxiety that I was going to school with, and that was really amazing, because she could then … She was smart. She just got test anxiety and froze up on that, so that’s great. That’s a good one too, the anxiety.

Carole Freeman:
All right, I thought of my excellent question. I’m just telling myself that’s an excellent question. I’ll frame it this way. Let’s talk about the things that you should not use hypnosis. When is it not a good idea? And then the question I’ll ask then regarding that is, why should someone not use hypnosis for weight loss?

Jim Kellner:
Wow, great questions, Carole. Okay. I should not …

Carole Freeman:
I told you it was excellent.

Jim Kellner:
Well, you put me on the spot because now I’m trying to think. There are some contraindications. So, if someone has … Like multiple personality disorder. If you’re going to use hypnosis, talk to your psychologist first, and go to someone who’s got some training in that. Actually know someone who’s going through that. I didn’t want to work with them, but they’re working with somebody else that has some experience with that. I would say severe mental and neuroses, so like that. Borderline personality disorder. There’s another one. It’s called the …

Carole Freeman:
Schizophrenia, is that what you’re thinking of?

Jim Kellner:
Yes. Thank you. Yes, yes, thank you. So, I would avoid it with those, or at least talk to a psychologist first or your psychiatrist and go to someone who knows what they’re doing. And it can be really tough to find someone who knows what they’re doing. Believe me, I know, because people ask me, “Hey, I live in Kentucky. Who should I go see?” I don’t know.

Jim Kellner:
Also, I would say not to use hypnosis if you think that hypnosis is going to cure you. And you that you don’t have to do anything else, because I did run into this with clients.

Carole Freeman:
That was my notes I just wrote down. Yes, yes, yes.

Jim Kellner:
I’m sure you’ve probably talked to people about, “Okay, well, these are the foods you need to eat. And these are the ones you probably should avoid.” And they probably go something like, “Well, I’ll just listen to the hypnosis. Why do I need to do …”

Jim Kellner:
I’ll talk to clients about moving your body more might be helpful. I’m doing the hypnosis. It doesn’t magically make it come off, which I think is good for people to know. Because I think one of the reasons they may not buy into hypnosis is because they think, “Well, how can this make me change just listening to something?” It’s not that listening that does it, it’s affecting your behavior. It’s about you take the weight off.

Carole Freeman:
Yes, yes, yes. That’s it. We’re done here. Yes. Thank you. This is what I wanted to say. So, through hypnotic, telepathic communication. Anyway, so here we go. I wasn’t done with my nutrition training. I did get my hypnotherapy certification, and I started helping people with hypnosis, but this was long before I knew about keto.

Carole Freeman:
Personally, I was really frustrated with the work that I was doing, because people came in, and they just wanted the hypnosis to make the magic lose the weight, but they didn’t want to actually make it … No, I don’t want to make any changes. I want to keep eating ice cream every night, and I just want to magically lose the weight. So, that’s the key is it does not work if you actually don’t change anything about your habits. But that’s where it works is that it does help you change your habits.

Carole Freeman:
What are some of the success stories that some of your favorite clients that you’ve worked with, and not just weight loss, but a variety of things?

Jim Kellner:
Sure. What I would say to that also is what if you didn’t mind not having ice cream every day?

Carole Freeman:
Right. Yeah.

Jim Kellner:
As if you’re not giving anything up. What if you actually look forward to going for a 10 minute walk? It’s not like it’s going to be the same as before, where you were like, “Oh, I don’t want to go for this walk, and I have to go,” and all this. No, it’s what if it actually was easier for you to make those changes so.

Jim Kellner:
One of my favorite success stories beside from the angle, she was awesome, she was probably in her 70s. So, to see that kind of transformation was awesome. I’m going to say I had this one where I had a kid who was in college, and he was having some severe anxiety. I don’t want to go into too much detail, but he used some drugs that maybe he shouldn’t have, and he started having some really bad anxiety afterwards.

Jim Kellner:
And so people may tell you how safe certain drugs are, but they’re not always 100% safe. They can cause different problems for different people. But the thing that got me was we talked, we had a consultation. He was suicidal, really. And I told him, “Look, you got to see a psychiatrist, psychologist, tell your physician, and then we can work together.”

Jim Kellner:
So, he’s doing all that and then we have this session scheduled, and we get on the session. He goes, “You know what, I think I’m not going to do this.” He actually texted me before. “I’m not going to do it.” And I go, “What happened?” I go, “Are you feeling better?” He goes, “No. My teacher said the hypnosis probably isn’t going to work. And my parents said, it’s probably not going to work.”

Jim Kellner:
And I said, “Well, with all due respect, you’ve looked at my website, you told me you’ve watched all my videos, you’ve seen my TEDx talk, you’ve seen all this stuff.” I said, “Who’s the expert on hypnosis here? Is your teacher the expert? If they are, great. Let’s hear from them.”

Jim Kellner:
But I said, “Why would you …” I mean, it’s great to giving this advice, but it’s terrible advice. I just want to say how dare you tell this person. You know nothing about hypnosis, and you’re going to tell it’s not going to work. He went forward. And you know what, he texted me the next day and he goes, “Since the incident, which had been four or five months …” He goes, “I get chills thinking about it.”

Jim Kellner:
He said, “I’ve had an anxiety attack every single day or more. One or more for five months.” He goes, “This is the first day I’ve not had an anxiety attack.” They could have prevented him from getting [crosstalk 00:24:01] that he needed, because they don’t know enough about the topic. [crosstalk 00:24:06] frustrating. It’s so [crosstalk 00:24:08]. Well, that drives me crazy. Go ahead.

Carole Freeman:
Go ahead.

Jim Kellner:
Well, just same thing with spouses sometimes. The person wants to quit smoking, but, “Oh, my wife said it’s probably not going to work.” Well, who’s the expert here? Because listen, if I don’t think it’s going to work for you, I’ll tell you. I’ve turned people away, especially smokers. If it’s your wife wanting you to quit, forget it. When you want to quit, I’ll help you.

Jim Kellner:
Because the last thing that I want for a variety of reasons is for you to fail, because I feel bad. You might do a bad review on me. I don’t want that, right? You can tell people hypnosis doesn’t work. Believe me, I don’t want to work with you if I don’t think it’s going to work for you.

Jim Kellner:
Another one of my favorites was this woman regarding exercise. She hated exercise, she hated it. It took a few sessions for her to break through on that, and then suddenly she was like, “You know what? I still don’t like exercise. Well, I don’t like doing laundry either, but I just do it.”

Carole Freeman:
Oh my gosh, because she liked the outcome. We don’t like doing laundry, but I like having clean clothes.

Jim Kellner:
Exactly.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, that’s great, breakthrough. See, and that’s what hypnosis is about. It’s not like a 360, “Oh my God, I’m now Jillian Michaels and I love exercise and I can’t wait.” I mean, maybe you have that happen, but most the time, it’s just more of like a subtle shift that makes a really big difference.

Jim Kellner:
That’s why one of the things that we often get as hypnotists is people will say, “Well I quit smoking, but I’m not sure if it was the hypnosis.”

Carole Freeman:
It’s fine. That’s okay.

Jim Kellner:
Yeah. Coincidental that we did three hypnosis sessions, you’re not smoking anymore. Because it is so subtle. You’re not getting that lightning bolt moment. [crosstalk 00:26:01] somebody will like a revelation, but yeah, not usually.

Jim Kellner:
As far as other success stories, the heavy sweater, the person that sweat, hyperhidrosis fix that within a few sessions. I mean, I’m constantly just more of these stories that my clients write to me. I had a woman who was suicidal. I actually met her doing street hypnosis out in Mill Creek, Washington. She took my card, she calls up. Again, suicidal. “Please go talk to your doctor.” They sign off on it.

Jim Kellner:
We did three sessions, and she wrote me like a year later. Well, we kept in contact before that, but a year later, she goes, “I wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for you.” I’m like, “Oh, God. Wow.” And again, asterisk here. Hypnosis is not a substitute for seeing your physician, your psychiatrist, anything like that. It’s supplemental.

Carole Freeman:
Regarding the young man that was having all the people, the doubters in his life, it’s like, “What does it hurt?”

Jim Kellner:
Exactly. I said [crosstalk 00:27:11].

Carole Freeman:
There’s no risk.

Jim Kellner:
He tried the medications, he’d been getting counseling, he talked to his doctor. Yeah, there is no risk. You’re going to put out some money, but would you rather put out a few hundred bucks and find out if it’s going to work? What you clearly have already noticed as a recognized expert, they don’t give TEDx talks to everybody.

Jim Kellner:
I’ve got this body of work. I’ve got tons of reviews. I speak at hypnosis conventions. I teach other hypnotist, and you’re going to tell me that you’re going to listen to your anthropology teacher? Come on.

Carole Freeman:
The same thing happens in the keto world, like, “Oh, well, my aunt’s mom said that, that’s not a healthy diet.” “Oh, so you hired me to do this work for you, but you’re going to trust your aunt’s mom or whatever, that’s the aunt cousin or whoever that’s not an expert.” So, I totally get that.

Carole Freeman:
I want to go back to one thing else you said because this is one of my favorite things about hypnosis once I learned it. Now, the reason I have Jim here as the expert is because he does this as his full time specialty. I have the training in it, I do a little bit of it, tiny little bit for my clients. But if somebody wants to work with this on a big scale, I refer them to Jim.

Carole Freeman:
I work in my niche, which is keto coaching nutrition, sprinkled in a little bit of some powerful psychology. But for people that want to work, like that’s what they want to spend an hour on or focus, they send them to Jim. But one of the things that I loved … I picked up my hypnosis training in the middle of my master’s degree in psychology, so I was in the middle of being trained to be a mental health therapist, and I was really confused.

Carole Freeman:
I asked my professor one day like, “How does this help people make change? How does this talking about problems and finding the root cause, like you said the regression to cause, how does that help people change?” And he goes, “Yeah, that’s a good question. We still don’t know that.” What? Why [inaudible 00:29:18] this work, that doesn’t work, or we don’t even know if it works?

Carole Freeman:
Because I had the experience of going to therapy and just buckle up because it’s going to take years of talking. You go in and you spend an hour pouring out your heart and then just time’s up, and you’re bawling your eyes out. And the rest of the day, I was always like just completely emotionally wrung out. And I was just like, “This is horrible. No wonder people don’t like going to therapy.”

Carole Freeman:
Now, caveat, therapy is amazing. And for people that need it, this is a … I’m not saying that therapy is horrible. My experience of it was that it takes a lot of work to do all that. So, the first time I started to experience hypnosis in my training, I was like … And then doing it on my clients myself was like, you could go to a regression place, or you can just go to whatever the issue is. And then by the end of the session, you get to say under hypnosis, “Now, you’re going to feel fully refreshed and alert, and awake, and whole, and happy.”

Carole Freeman:
And that’s how you feel at the end. You don’t have to feel like you’ve cried your eyes out for an hour and emotionally wrung out. So, that was a long … I’m supposed to be interviewing you, and I’m talking more than I should, but I just had to piggyback on what you said about you don’t have to go to that same place as you would with therapy or deeper things like that. So, do you have anything reflections on that? Or what do you want to add to that?

Jim Kellner:
I feel the same way. Like you said, it’s great. It’s been moved out great. I think as far as trauma goes, I think it makes some sense to talk about it a little bit, get that out to somebody a few times maybe. What I find a lot of times is people are just going to therapy, they’re talking about the same darn thing every single time, and then reliving the nightmare of it.

Jim Kellner:
Wouldn’t it be better to go talk about a couple times, sure, get it off your chest? And then we use like a laser, and we get right to the problem, we change the behavior. It’s so much quicker. People sometimes, they think that hypnosis is like magic. When I tell them the anger issue, I said, “I can probably get you at least 70%, 80% to where you want to be within three sessions. It may take more.”

Jim Kellner:
I never really know. It’s hard to say. It’s like physical therapy, you don’t know how long. It should take this long, maybe longer. But people are kind of surprised. “Oh, it’s going to take more.” Well, it’s still quicker than therapy. Like you said, there’s those layers of the onion. And what sometimes happens is the thing is not the thing. The overeating is not the real problem here. The real problem goes deeper. And once you fix that problem or address it, the other stuff becomes a lot easier.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. Viewers, whoever is here right now, what questions do you have for Jim? Questions you have about how hypnosis works, if it could work for something that’s going on for you. Or also, what topic would you like him to do a brief guided imagery or hypnotic session with? We have that opportunity to do that today that will be embedded in this recording forever.

Carole Freeman:
I know there’s a bit of a delay, so let’s wait and see what this person says. But in the meantime, what does it hurt, doesn’t hurt anything? We talked about why you. Yes, you. Okay, not you, but you, should not do hypnosis. False expectations, basically, and certain mental health conditions.

Jim Kellner:
It’s just a hey, check first and get somebody that’s qualified. I got to tell you, it’s … I remember, I’ll have people that will talk to me. I remember this one guy in particular, he had checked around to a few hypnotists. When I told him my price, he was like, “Well, that’s like … I found somebody. I got to talk to somebody. Yes, it was a third of your price.” I said, “You should go with him then.”

Jim Kellner:
If you’re going for the cheapest, then you’ll get what you get. For keto stuff, you can subscribe to a newsletter somewhere and maybe get some info. You can Google keto and get some results, but do you want to get just anybody or do you want the expert and the person that’s going to work with you individually to help you?

Carole Freeman:
My business coach said yesterday, something that blew me away. It’s important for what you just said, and the work that we’re both doing. So, think about this. All you watching, this isn’t for Jim, this is for you watching. Time is the only nonrenewable resource that we have in our lives. We can eat healthier and exercise and change our body and get some healthy renewal, but time. Every day, we only have so many hours in our day, we have so many hours in our week.

Carole Freeman:
And when you engage with a professional that can help you have a shortcut, get there faster. Sure, you could try to do these things on your own. People that I’m working with, they tried to figure out on their own and they spent months probably some of them even years. But what we’re giving you the gift of is more time actually.

Carole Freeman:
It is a way that you can actually get more freed up. So, for my clients, they’re no longer consumed and obsessing about food all day long. You’re freeing people up because they’re able to make change much more rapidly than they could any other way. Really powerful.

Jim Kellner:
Yeah. I agree so much. I’ll give you an example of this. For the first time in my life, I actually hired movers this last time. When I think about how cheap it was to hire them, I can’t believe. I didn’t do this before. It’s is not cheap-cheap, but when I consider what my time is worth, whether it’s working with clients or just sitting and watching a movie, it’s so worth it. It’s amazing.

Carole Freeman:
Hire the experts to help them free up more of your time, get you faster results, better results than you ever could on your own. Similarly to a coach, you’re a subconscious mind coach is what a hypnotist mean. Somebody ever said that?

Jim Kellner:
No. [crosstalk 00:35:53].

Carole Freeman:
Could I tell I’m lacking in human interaction, like I’m so excited to talk to you today I’m just like, “Oh my God, I’m so brilliant.” Hypnotism is just subconscious mind coaching. He’s coaching your subconscious mind to make changes. A lot of people know it makes sense. Our NFL players, elite athletes, marathon runners, Ironman people, they hire a coach if they want to get better at that. If they want faster results, they want to do better than anyone else.

Carole Freeman:
So, same thing with hiring a subconscious mind coach, aka hypnotist. It just gets you better results faster. It gets you a shortcut. It’s an unfair advantage actually over other people that are trying to make changes.

Jim Kellner:
It really is. It’s a great way of looking at it. What do you call it again?

Carole Freeman:
You’re a subconscious mind coach.

Jim Kellner:
Right. Subconscious mind coach. Exactly.

Carole Freeman:
Because I know a lot of people have misconceptions about like, “Oh, this is against my spiritual beliefs,” or things like that. But factually, that’s what hypnotists does. They coach your subconscious mind to make changes. Help your mind make changes. That’s all it is.

Jim Kellner:
That’s such a great way. I wish we could just change the name and just go [crosstalk 00:37:15] mind coach.

Carole Freeman:
You actually could. [crosstalk 00:37:16].

Jim Kellner:
[crosstalk 00:37:16], because I have started kind of moving away from the title of hypnotist, because it does cause that other stuff, that some of those myths to pop up. But the problem of that though is some people are actually looking for a hypnotist. Like for instance, I wouldn’t have got my TEDx talk if I wasn’t a hypnotist because they were looking for a hypnotist.

Carole Freeman:
Right. Right.

Jim Kellner:
It is tough.

Carole Freeman:
Yes.

Jim Kellner:
But I love that. That’s a great title. I have colleagues that don’t call themselves hypnotists. They call themselves a mental coach or things like that. Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Mental coach. Oh, yeah. All right. Let’s see. We didn’t get that person to comment, so we’re going to move on. Let’s see. If we could pick out a five minute little guided imagery, subconscious mind coaching session that would be targeted towards helping people optimize weight loss, if I put you on the spot right now, could you leave this through something that’s about five minutes or so of coaching our subconscious mind?

Jim Kellner:
Absolutely.

Carole Freeman:
Okay.

Jim Kellner:
Let me put up my stopwatch. I mean, my pocket watch out too on this thing.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, before you start, I thought of the other … So, we’ve mentioned Office Space, Shallow Hal. That brand new Netflix special that I’ve been watching is Ratched, which is based on a Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, so it’s supposed to be her backstory. Its cinematography and the set design and the costume is all beautiful.

Carole Freeman:
It’s set in a psychiatric hospital and the head doctor there, so this is back in, I’m not sure, like a ’50s maybe. He’s experimenting with hypnosis on some of his patients. One of them goes wrong, and then another one though has multiple personality disorder that he has great success with until she sees the next trauma in the show. But anyway, so that’s another one. So, those are the three Hollywood versions of hypnosis that may or may not be based in any fact at all.

Jim Kellner:
Well, you know what, if it … Again, it’s just that my stage hypnosis and street hypnosis videos. If they portrayed hypnosis accurately, it would be boring. I mean, it wouldn’t make for good TV. I’m guessing a lot of espionage, a lot of spy work, it’s pretty boring. Detective work, boring.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Jim Kellner:
If they actually portrayed it legitimately, who would watch it?

Carole Freeman:
Right. All right. Reset. Now, we’re going to Jim, master hypnotist. Is that the right word? World renowned hypnotist, Jim Keller is going to lead us through a gnosis, guided imagery, subconscious mind coaching exercise in optimizing … What would you like to title it?

Jim Kellner:
Healthy living, whatever that means to you. Awesome. So, as we talked about earlier, it’s never a good idea to listen to hypnosis or guided meditation or anything like that while you’re driving a car or moving around or operating heavy machinery. So, if you’re doing that, stop listening. Otherwise, just go and get yourself in a comfortable position, sitting or lying down, in a quiet place where you won’t be disturbed.

Jim Kellner:
And just allow your breathing to become a little bit slower as you just gently close your eyes down if you’re comfortable with that. And as your breathing becomes a little bit slower, you may find it easy to just imagine that there were some gentle waves of relaxation going from the top of your head all the way down to the bottoms of your feet. That’s right.

Jim Kellner:
And you can take in a deep breath and then let it out with a sigh if that’s helpful to you. You can allow those gentle waves of relaxation to go all the way down to the fingertips. And just imagining gentle waves going all the way down, all the way through your body. And just allow all outside sounds and distractions to fade away as you focus solely on the sound of my voice.

Jim Kellner:
And at times, you may feel the need to shift or even move around a bit and that’s okay. You’re just releasing tension. As soon as that tension is released, you’ll be able to relax even more now. And while you’re continuing to imagine gentle waves of relaxation, moving through your body, you might just start focusing on your goals and your intentions for today’s short hypnotic journey. Nothing else to think about, nothing else to do, so you can just focus on now where you’d like to make changes in your life.

Jim Kellner:
Perhaps you’ve chosen to eat certain foods leaving others behind. Maybe you’ve chosen to drink more water or to get in a bit of physical activity from time to time. Some of you may even be considering the possibility of utilizing hypnosis or meditation. Whatever your specific goals are, are perfect for you.

Jim Kellner:
And you can allow those goals to float around in your mind just imagining what it’s going to be like as you create those shifts in your life. How it’s already perhaps becoming easier to eat those healthy foods and leave behind those ones that no longer serve you.

Jim Kellner:
You may begin to notice, in fact, in the coming days, weeks, months, perhaps even years that those healthy foods become brighter in your mind, they really stand out. As a result, foods of the past just become black and white in your mind and sort of fade away like steam off of a boiling pot.

Jim Kellner:
In fact, perhaps you remember to forget those old foods of the past by simply forgetting to remember them. I wonder if you’ll find yourself saying, “I don’t want them. I don’t need them.” As you refuse to even think about them. So many possibilities, so many ways to make changes in your life. And I wonder if there’s a part of you that would really like to begin to love yourself more than ever.

Jim Kellner:
Perhaps today, you’ll find that you’re taking a moment to look in the mirror and repeating the following. “I love myself. I respect myself. I am beneath no one.” Maybe you’ll do that every day now. Maybe you’ll find that you’re repeating those words frequently as you’re driving, or walking, or even watching TV.

Jim Kellner:
And every time that you look in the mirror, you might give yourself that smile as you say, “I love myself. I respect myself. I am beneath no one.” And it might be interesting to just imagine in your mind now that all of those suggestions that were helpful for you become locked in. Perhaps they become solidified in your body and mind as you grasp those concepts that resonate with you.

Jim Kellner:
Perhaps you’re noticing, are your goals are becoming clear in your mind. Knowing that you could always accept the suggestions that are helpful while leaving any others behind. You could always take them in later if it’s appropriate to do so.

Jim Kellner:
And now might be a good time to begin making that journey back to your normal everyday life, or everyday state of consciousness. So, you could imagine now that you’re just slowly walking up a set of stairs. As I count you up from one to five, and you may find it on that fifth step, you’re back to your full level of consciousness feeling rested, refreshed, revitalized.

Jim Kellner:
Well, maybe on five you’ll drift into a deep refreshing sleep if that’s what’s appropriate to do now. And so now, as you stepped up to that first step, you’re perhaps finding that you feel more confident in your ability to create change in your life. Two, stepping up, perhaps feeling a bit more motivated, more determined than ever to live your best life.

Jim Kellner:
Third step coming up, perhaps even feeling as if you’ve had a deep refreshing sleep as you start to come back to your normal state. You step up to that four step. You may find that you’re wanting to stretch and move around a bit and that’s okay. Then five, you can open your eyes whenever you’re ready or go to a deep sleep just coming back to a normal state feeling rested, refreshed, revitalized, all the way back now. Thank you.

Carole Freeman:
That was great.

Jim Kellner:
Awesome.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you so much, Jim.

Jim Kellner:
You’re welcome.

Carole Freeman:
I haven’t experienced that in some time. It feels like a gift. Thank you so much.

Jim Kellner:
Wow. It’s good to me too.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, good. Does it feel good to you, those of you listening? All right. Well, that was amazing. That was wonderful. I feel like a radio DJ. Thank you for listening to top hits, hypnosis to help you live to your optimal health.

Carole Freeman:
All right. So, as we wrap this up. Okay. Everyone, we have talked about the possibilities with hypnosis, what things are possible. Some of Jim’s favorite success stories. We talked about why you should not use hypnosis for weight loss. And basically the contraindications and removing false beliefs or false expectations of what, how it works, how it’s going to work.

Carole Freeman:
We talked about why, for some people, using hypnosis can be shorter and less painful than going through traditional talk therapy. And we also talked about understanding who’s an expert, who you should listen to as far as whether hypnosis will work or not. And it doesn’t hurt anything. Besides the contraindications we’ve talked about, there’s no risk. There’s no risk.

Carole Freeman:
And we also define that what Jim is doing as a hypnotist is basically subconscious mind coaching. So, if you’re ready to make some bigger changes, faster shortcuts, bigger optimizing your life than you could on your own, then hypnosis may be for you.

Carole Freeman:
So, before we close this out, I’m going to show your website here so people can contact you in just a moment. But anything, any last words, anything else you were hoping to get to that I didn’t ask you about, about hypnosis or work you do?

Jim Kellner:
That’s a great question. I don’t think so. I just thought maybe that would be a good headline why you should not use hypnosis to lose weight.

Carole Freeman:
That’s exactly it. Yup.

Jim Kellner:
Brilliant. Brilliant. No, I can’t think of anything else. Please, give it a try, whether you use me or someone else. Just check them out, make sure they’ve got a few reviews at least and a decent website, and maybe some credentials.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. So, Jim has generously offered everyone who is listening to this now and in the future a free intro call with him to find out if hypnosis is right for you, if you’re somebody who’s worried about, “Can we be hypnotized or not? What are my goals? Are they in alignment with hypnosis? Will it work for me?”

Carole Freeman:
Reach out in his website, Damnimpretty.com. There’s no apostrophe, so that’s important to know. And website URLs, they can’t have any punctuation. So Damnimpretty.com. It’s Jim’s catchphrase. Hold up your mug again. Your water.

Carole Freeman:
Yep. I have a coffee mug that he gave me with the same thing in it. Not only that, but for a limited time, so if you’re watching this, and sometime in the future, this may not be still valid. But for those of you watching for a limited time, schedule an initial call with him, and he’s offered to give 50% off of one of his programs to you. So, start with the call first and see if it’s a good fit. And anything else to add, Jim?

Jim Kellner:
Well, just to clarify. While we were talking, I was able to get the discount code going. I’m happy to chat with you anytime. Just mention Carole. We have a free consultation, no obligation. And I want hypnotize you to make you say yes, probably.

Jim Kellner:
As we talked about, it’s very rare that someone is significantly overweight just because food tastes so darn good. There’s usually something else. A lot of times, that’s self esteem, so I’m going to offer my self-esteem course, four week class, self paced for 75% off.

Carole Freeman:
Even better.

Jim Kellner:
Yeah, just use the code Carole. C-A-R-O-L-E. So for about 50 bucks, it can really transform your life. If you check out the website there, you can see a couple of reviews for that program.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, that’s awesome. I’m going to grab that link from you so that we can link it in the show notes. And I’ll send that out to all my members as well too. So, oh my gosh, that’s amazing. Thank you so much.

Jim Kellner:
Sure thing.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, we’re so lucky. All right. So, give it up for Jim being here. Thank you so much. Look, here we got this. Yay, Jim.

Jim Kellner:
Nice.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, and hope all is well up there in Seattle. I keep seeing videos of people right now, and it’s already raining back up there again. So, I’m like, “Oh.”

Jim Kellner:
Yeah. Good for you, Carole. I’m so glad you’re [inaudible 00:53:56].

Carole Freeman:
I’m freezing in here in the AC.

Jim Kellner:
Right.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, thanks again. You guys reach out to Jim, and that’s all for now. We’ll see you next time. Bye, everybody.

Jim Kellner:
Thanks, Carol. Thanks, everybody.

Get a FREE 7-day Fast & Easy Keto Meal Plan: https://ketocarole.com/free-7-day-meal-plan/

Keto Chat Episode 128: Cardiology Nurse Shares the Biggest Thing that Messes Everyone Up on Keto

About Marylou Hopkins:

Marylou Hopkins started her journey fourteen years ago. She had an amazing opportunity to be a stay at home mom (her first true passion). She then realized her true calling was to be a nurse and help others. She was given an amazing opportunity to work with a bariatric surgeon and assisted her patients in the journey of bariatric surgery. She spent four years following patients through the rigorous process of preparing and having the surgery. Through the years of surgical experience she watched as her patients would most often have amazing success with weight loss that was not possible prior to the surgery. After some time she began to see the other side of bariatric surgery, the regain. She began to dig deeper into why this would happen. What options were there for her patients that had successful weight loss after surgery and then this amazing tool seemed to stop working. She then met Dr Eric Thorn, a cardiologist that wanted to help his patients with metabolic syndrome by changing their food.

After meeting with him and hearing how he had recommended dietary changes for patients and was astounded by the results she chose to assist him in beginning a program within the cardiology practice that would be the beginning of a life long passion. She opened the metabolic health and weight management program eight years ago. Her training has given her the opportunity to learn from many experts in her field including Dr. Eric Westman, Jackie Eberstein and many more. She trained with Dr. Westman in his clinic in Durham, NC in 2012. Her experience gives her the opportunity to have an individualized approach to finding the best options to help each client sustain the recommended changes. Her coaching meets the needs of the individual client and helps them navigate the ever changing environments that can cause many to lose their way.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Transcript:

Carole Freeman:
… and we’re going. Countdown, and we’re live, everyone. Welcome everyone, welcome you keto crew members. I am so thrilled, excited to be here, our very special guest expert this month. You guys, did you notice we’ve got two this month? I promised you guys one a month, and this month we have two because I just couldn’t wait to get Marylou in here.

Carole Freeman:
So today, we have Marylou Hopkins, she is a real life nurse, cardiology nurse, and she’s a keto coach. I know a lot of you are really, really excited for her to be here. So welcome, Marylou.

Marylou Hopkins:
Thank you for having me, I’m really excited.

Carole Freeman:
Where are you joining us from?

Marylou Hopkins:
I am from Norther Virginia, so just outside of DC.

Carole Freeman:
Nice, nice. It looks like it’s warm there, you got your windows open.

Marylou Hopkins:
Actually, it’s nice and cool. So yeah, pretty little fall weather today, it was great.

Carole Freeman:
Oh I was going to say, you guys probably get actual real fall, right?

Marylou Hopkins:
Yes, it’s my favorite time of the year.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, me too normally but I just moved to Phoenix, Arizona, three months ago and it’s still 105 today, so.

Marylou Hopkins:
I saw that, good luck with that. Tell me about that next year.

Carole Freeman:
Fall here means it’s 10 degrees cooler than it was a month ago.

Marylou Hopkins:
Wow.

Carole Freeman:
Instead of 120, it’s only 110, that’s what I’m discovering.

Marylou Hopkins:
I’m looking for a place where you can have fall all year.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, does that exist? I don’t know.

Marylou Hopkins:
Maybe north, [crosstalk 00:01:26]-

Carole Freeman:
[crosstalk 00:01:26] maybe.

Marylou Hopkins:
… cold.

Carole Freeman:
Maybe Seattle but you still get three months of amazing summer up there, so.

Marylou Hopkins:
Right.

Carole Freeman:
All right, well Marylou, let’s talk about your back stories. We’re waiting for some people to join us and I do have a question sent in from Karen. She’s not able to be here today but I’ve got some questions for you from her, but let me just throw out the caveat. Okay? So Marylou is a real life nurse, she’s not going to be able to give any of you specific recommendations or diagnosis or anything like that. She’s going to be able to share information, answer questions, but just keep that in mind and that she won’t be able to actually solve your specific health problems. That’s… health concerns, that’s just a legal, ethical, and licensure thing so we don’t want to get her in trouble and make her lose what she’s able to do. So we will phrase things in ways that are general information and that’s what she’s able to provide for us here.

Carole Freeman:
So Marylou, how did you… tell us your back story. I know you sent in a really great… it was like a chapter in a book of where you’ve been. It’s all fascinating, so I want to hear it all.

Marylou Hopkins:
So I came to keto actually from bariatric surgery. So I was a bariatric surgery nurse and every year I keep forgetting what year it is, and especially this year. So I think it was about 14 or 15 years ago, I began my nursing career in bariatric surgery. I spent four years there and it was an amazing experience. Honestly, something that I really am very grateful for when I do what I do now because as the job that I did bariatric surgery, I would follow patients through their entire experience. One of the reasons I started looking for another job was because as I’m sure many are aware, anybody that knows anybody that’s had bariatric surgery, it’s wonderful, it’s an amazing tool, however, it’s a tool and it has to be utilized.

Marylou Hopkins:
So after a few years of following patients that would have the surgery, lose weight, do amazing, then you would start to see this regain and it’s very disheartening. I am a nurse and I’m a practice what I preach nurse, which every one of my patient hears but it was very hard for me because I was doing the same thing they were doing. I was eating small meals, I was doing the protein shakes, and I myself couldn’t lose weight, if anything I was actually gaining weight at the time. Then I started looking for another job and found that I really did like bariatrics and I was actually going to go into another bariatric surgery practice.

Marylou Hopkins:
Then I met this crazy cardiologist. Absolutely insane, I thought the day I met him because here I come from this background of calories in versus calories out, and portions and exercise. This guy tells me he wants to treat his patient’s symptoms with changing their foods first. I remember when he handed me this little paleo sheet he gave people and it said you give up your bread. After the interview I went to my kids and my kids were like, “So, what’d you think?” I’m like, “That guy’s crazy. I’m not giving up my bread.” However, with that information I started to get into this and look at all the information he had given me.

Marylou Hopkins:
Of course, Eric Westman I came across and I was blown away. It almost a sealed deal as soon as I started hearing what they were saying because it all made sense because my bariatric surgery patients have this great tool, they lose the weight, and the correlation between the two was just phenomenal. What’s the one thing they should not have? Most of the time can’t because they can’t tolerate it? It’s sugar. So wow, wait, all of my bariatric surgery patients were not having sugar and then when they did start to add sugar back because that tool was not as effective the longer you use it, they’d start to regain weight.

Marylou Hopkins:
So I decided to jump on board with this crazy guy and start a program. We started our program at a cardiology practice out in Manassas, Nokesville area, or Gainesville. When we started this, Dr. Eric Thorn, the one I work with, he said he wanted to mimic a program like Dr. Westman’s. So what did I do? I rolled out to Duke, his little lifestyle clinic, and I actually reached out to him a couple of times and ended up studying with him, had a phenomenal experience in his clinic. It was just mind blowing, brought all of the information that he had back to our practice. We formulated a program that is very similar to his, with the exception of, it’s a nurse, physician type program. So I do all of the coaching, I do all of the teaching, and he does all of the doctor stuff. Then, so we’ve been doing this now for nine years. So I haven’t had a piece of bread in nine years, guys. I’m alive and well.

Carole Freeman:
Oh my god, that’s amazing. You’ve been changing lives, how does that feel to have that much impact? Do you know the stats, the numbers of people that have been through your clinic and what kind of impact that’s had?

Marylou Hopkins:
It’s phenomenal. One of the things that I respect most about Westman is his statement that people ask him all the time, “What’s your success rate?” It’s 100% when you do it. That means a lot, and the impact when I started nursing, I really didn’t know. I actually was not even considering this. I can tell you today, it would be very… I don’t know that I can ever leave it. I actually got an opportunity to work with and study with Jackie Eberstein. That was my… that’s my whole idol, oh my gosh, because [inaudible 00:08:16] we are doing this and what you experience. Again, it’s been nine years that we’ve been doing this. You’ve seen that trend of products on the market and availability for just easier meals. You’ve seen that come up over the last nine years. Right?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:08:34] years ago, it was hard and you didn’t have all those options. Can you imagine back in 1976, when Jackie is coaching these people? So it was phenomenal, it was a great opportunity. Yeah, I don’t think I see myself ever doing anything else besides this. I love it.

Carole Freeman:
Well, so I know who Jackie is but for those who don’t know that name. Can you tell us why you were so excited to train with her?

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:09:04], I usually open with that, Jackie Eberstein. Jackie Eberstein is the only nurse that worked in Dr. Atkins clinic. She was the one that actually helped train Eric Westman back in ’90 something. She’s phenomenal. You know these people when you talk to a coach, you know they’re a coach because you can hear the things that they’re experiencing, that the clients go through. You figure out ways to adjust everyone’s foods to where it works for them.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, that’s one of the keys, is there’s no one size fits all.

Marylou Hopkins:
No, no two people are different even when they eat the exact same thing, yes.

Carole Freeman:
Isn’t that crazy? That’s so weird, yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
It is, and actually I will tell you. That’s one of my fun things is when I have patients that are husband and wife or a couple, and they’re in our area. We’ll have some that are, I’m in a cardiology practice. So some of our range is higher and so I’ll have people that are retired. They literally eat together every day the same thing and they don’t have the same results. So that’s one of those moments where I’m like, hey, now you guys get to see the truth.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, well and a lot of times they think, oh, it’s not fair, men lose weight so much faster, but I’ve seen the reverse where the wife is losing weight really fast and the man’s the one with the stubborn metabolism, so.

Marylou Hopkins:
Right, so I think that’s one of the biggest things that I push especially when in my class is, please remember that no two people are the same. Just because it works for someone else does not mean that it will work for you and vice versa. It doesn’t work for someone else, it doesn’t mean that it won’t work for you.

Carole Freeman:
Yes, excellent. Oh, let’s see. Oh, if I may share a little fun tidbit of my education. So I did my undergrad and graduate both in nutrition. There was one of our professors taught an elective class in weight loss, how to lose weight and all the different methodologies and the biochemistry and all that kind of stuff, but of course… so this was in ’07 through 2012, not a class talking about low carb as an option. She just, one of the classes one day said that yeah, she talks about bariatric surgery in her class and she had this upside down funnel or something she taught, basically you try everything first and every diet first and weight loss surgery is the last resort. She said that it’s really, really, really effective, but the statistics show that within two years, people start to gain the weight back.

Carole Freeman:
I was just like, what? Most people don’t know that, and I just thought that was absurd. I said, “Why do they put people through all of that risk of surgery and all of that work?” She says, “Well, for those two years, the improvement of their life, it’s thought to be that that’s worth it for two years of improvement of life.” I was like, wow, I wish there was something different back then I didn’t know any different, so. So that’s a little dirty little secret of it, is that-

Marylou Hopkins:
Well, so… and I’m sorry to throw in bariatric surgery, but it is really… it’s heart wrenching. I didn’t say this earlier but the reason I started to look for another job was because it was so hard for me to be the nurse that I am and be able to help them. When you would go and say, “Why are they regaining weight?” Whether that’s the nutritionist or the surgeon, it was always, they’re eating more and exercising too little. I’m like, you don’t understand. I know these people, they’re not doing that.

Marylou Hopkins:
So then on the other side of it, my poor patients would come to me and they’d be devastated. Like, I’ve done everything. Look, I did this and I did great and now it’s not working. So, and I did the same thing. I didn’t know, this was what I did, this is what I was taught. One of the other things that drives me nuts is how many people will recommend bariatric surgery over the keto diet.

Carole Freeman:
Because it’s safer, right?

Marylou Hopkins:
Are you kidding? It’s mind blowing, but it’s the times. We have to remember that all of medicine, we are taught a certain way, we learn a certain way, and it’s hard to break those things because when you break them you’re going against everything you’ve learned and everything you’ve been told.

Marylou Hopkins:
So I am very grateful for Eric Thorn because he did break the mold and he [crosstalk 00:14:15] with 12 other cardiologists, all of them trusted him enough to send their patients to him. Then they get to start seeing. I have seen over time, I’ve had many, many physicians that are, no way, no way, no way. Then all of a sudden their patient comes in, and I have one of my favorites, she was a hardcore vegetarian. Hated ringing for everything that I recommended, maybe not. This is my opinion, but my favorite part is, do you know that she actually started handing out Dr. Westman’s material to her patients? Now, she is still a hardcore vegetarian and is very like, oh you should exercise. But she knows that it works and she knows enough to be able to give it to her patients as a recommendation to make some changes. I think that’s phenomenal, that’s where we start. That’s how it reaches everyone, so.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, oh I love it, love. We’re changing one person at a time and then there’s a tipping point of enough people, their doctor sees it, and then we get to change one doctor at a time. We’ve got a lot of work to do.

Marylou Hopkins:
Fantastic, I love it, I love it.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, I can see, so we’ve got Leticia watching, and I can see we’ve got one other person. So whoever’s here, just type in the comments, let us know you’re here. I can’t see who it is until you actually make a comment. Also, if you’ve got any questions for Maryanne. I know somebody just joined us, so this is Maryanne, sorry Marylou. Marylou-

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:15:55].

Carole Freeman:
… cardiology nurse that specializes in keto coaching and keto transformations with cardiology. Now is it specific cardiology patients or are you just getting everyone that needs weight loss? Most of them happen to have cardiology support issues, right?

Marylou Hopkins:
Right, so we do. We have a great deal. We don’t take anyone under 18 just because of the cardiology practice and their guidelines. We don’t have any pediatric cardiologists. Then hello, then we have so across the board, my patients don’t have to come in because they have a cardiology problem. Now that our program is established, if they just need to lose weight, they can come in. They have a consult with the physician, and then they followup with me. Then I run it from there. Then we do labs, depending on the patient, every three to six months to a year. Then they do their coaching, it’s all patient driven.

Marylou Hopkins:
So what your stats are, well, unfortunately I have people… I’m not even kidding when I say, so we’ve been doing this nine years. I still see patients that I saw nine years ago but the frequency is different. So they struggle or they’re doing great and I don’t see them and then they start to struggle and then they come in.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, okay, we’ve got some questions starting to come in. I know, so Penny, I’ll let you share your back story a little bit if you want, otherwise I won’t expose. I know we’ve got interview videos with Penny though, so I’ll just let her decide what she wants to share right here with everyone, but. So she’s… let’s see, let’s get into the… So your office, the fact that you have a cardiologist and a keto nurse together. It seems like the penultimate heaven for people. So this is probably one of the top worries that everyone I work with either before they start keto, and or across as they start going into it, even though every number improves except sometimes that one pesky one. Everyone’s freaked out and worried. One of the questions I had come in, actually let me get that up and I’ll give you the gist of it too. So we’ll talk about that.

Carole Freeman:
So let’s transition to just talking about, what about this high fat [inaudible 00:18:32]-

Marylou Hopkins:
Shoot.

Carole Freeman:
So I tried to get her before numbers. Again, this is going to be just general information. This is not going to be any specific recommendations of what Karen should do but just a general question that Karen had.

Carole Freeman:
So she didn’t have her before numbers and she’s changed doctors. So she lives between two different states and so her before numbers she doesn’t know. She started keto and the doctor… where’s my page out here? The doctor was concerned, so even though… okay, so her triglycerides are 43, her HDL is 109, her cholesterol to HDL ratio is 2.5. Okay, so she says, “I’m not worried about those,” but her total cholesterol is 276, her LDL is 158. Again, so the doctor put her on pravastatin because the number was too high. Again, I don’t even know what the numbers were before. I don’t even know that this doctor does, but he’s going based on this.

Carole Freeman:
So let’s see if we can frame this in a general way of like-

Marylou Hopkins:
I can’t pretend you just asked me that. So what I think I’ll do is, I’m going to treat you like you’re the patient and you just asked me the question.

Marylou Hopkins:
I think the first part of that, right before you started talking about the numbers it broke up a little bit but what I’m going to say to you is what I would say to my patient. Okay? Because I have this happen all the time and when they come in they’ll say, “Oh my gosh, I got my labs done. Look at this.” So when you said, so first off, triglycerides are, what did you say? 43?

Carole Freeman:
43, yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
Was that before or after the addition?

Carole Freeman:
This is after keto.

Marylou Hopkins:
No, addition of statin?

Carole Freeman:
Oh, yeah, see that’s a good question. I think this is after the statin, yeah. Yeah-

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:20:45].

Carole Freeman:
Let’s see. I didn’t get the date when that started, so correct.

Marylou Hopkins:
It’s okay, it’s okay. So I’m just framing everything. All right, so this is what I would say. I would say to you, listen, first off, your triglycerides are amazing. Okay? What’s crazy is, is if you think about this, Carole, and I don’t know how much experience you’ve had with this, but the American standard for a healthy triglyceride is 150. She has 43. Triglycerides, when I see them, are a direct reflection most often, not all the time. Nothing is ever 100%, most of the time your triglycerides are going to be a reflection of your sugars. Okay?

Marylou Hopkins:
Now, on the other side of that, what number did you say the HDL was? 100 and what?

Carole Freeman:
109.

Marylou Hopkins:
Okay, I think she wins for the highest HDL I’ve seen. Now, that is a lot coming from somebody that’s been working in cardiology for nine years and doing this. Very, very high HDL. Your HDL is there to clean up your LDL, so you have a super high HDL, you have a high LDL, you just said your ratio super small, she’s cleaning up all of her LDL, or you. That’s right.

Carole Freeman:
Me.

Marylou Hopkins:
So anyway, so that little cholesterol thing, I would not even blink at. Now, was the question something about the statin or was it just-

Carole Freeman:
Well yeah, she’s worried that the total and the LDL are too high. We’ve talked about this a lot, but you understand how you often have to say things 10 or 17 times before it sinks in. Not that because people aren’t intelligent, it’s just that when-

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:22:44].

Carole Freeman:
… 50 years of something being told that it’s bad for you, it’s hard to unlearn that but she’s also saying that the doctor thinks she needs to eat less red meat, eat more fish, and eat more berries, and eat more fruit.

Marylou Hopkins:
Okay, we’ll talk to that doctor later, but-

Carole Freeman:
And-

Marylou Hopkins:
… how I would respond to this in that, because guess what? Even in the same practice I still get pushback sometimes and it’s fine, I get it. First and foremost, she needs to do whatever she feels, you feel, Carole, whatever you feel is best for you. One of the hard things and when you said people, you have to say it 17 times. You have to say it 17 times because it’s freaking scary. You have grown up your entire life hearing all of this bad stuff, now all of a sudden you’re trying to get healthy and you have this LDL that’s ridiculously high. Honestly, she probably does eat a ton of red meat because that HDL, when I see a lot of red meat eaters, those will jump up too. It’s fine, but again, it’s a good one.

Marylou Hopkins:
The LDL is so stinking tricky because I have not been able to pinpoint anything. It almost seems as if it is more a personal, hereditary DNA type thing. My mother’s LDL, I think it’s 222. I was like, listen lady, you don’t need a statin because her HDL is super high, but then when she goes off and she’s not eating well, I’m like, hey, get on a statin. That’s your choice, go for it, but that’s my mother. I also know her, okay?

Marylou Hopkins:
The other thing that you could potentially do if you have a cholesterol panel like that, get an NMR. Those are detailed breakdown of your cholesterol particle sizes. So basic terms, your LDL can be super large, and actually, Eric has a wonderful description of that and he talks about marbles going into a funnel and if they’re a bunch of little hard marbles, then it gets stuck but if they’re not, then potentially they can make their way through. So that’s what an LDL is, because as those particles, the LDL particles enlarge, that total LDL goes up really high. Okay? When it does, that does not necessarily mean that there’s all those particles. Potentially, that just means the particle size has grown so it increases that number. You cannot get that unless you get a lipoprotein NMR, is what it’s called. Again, it’s just a breakdown of everything.

Marylou Hopkins:
So, perfect example. Mother, her particle size was huge. Actually, I had an incident with her where she has lost about 60 pounds, maybe even more, in a matter of about six months. She went to her doctor elated because all he wanted to do was have her get bariatric surgery because she needed to lose weight. Okay? She goes in, getting ready like, I can’t wait to see what he says. He’s going to be so proud of me. The only thing he says to her is, “Why are you not on a statin?” She said, “What?” He said, “Why are you not on a statin?” It was because her total cholesterol and her LDL were high. Now, the whole conversation was that she didn’t… she was back and forth and with Dr. Thorn, she was working with him, if she wanted a statin she could’ve absolutely had it, but then she had the NMR and it was large and fluffy. So her choice and decision was to not take the statin.

Marylou Hopkins:
So after her appointment, after he is talking about the cholesterol, she actually… he ended the appointment with that. He says, “If you’re not going to take a statin, I’m going to put in here that you are going against medical advice,” and that was it. So the appointment was over, she calls crying hysterically. He never mentioned her weight loss.

Marylou Hopkins:
So I’ve heard you say something about that one number, and that’s actually very true. Think about her A1C, her cholesterol, her C reactive protein. All of those things in combination, that’s what’s important, and how she feels and what she’s most comfortable with. But just remember, if you feel like that the total cholesterol is too high and taking a statin is fine, go for it, man. There’s nothing wrong, if you have problems, then you go back and revisit it.

Carole Freeman:
So can you give us some insights into why is it that cardiologists especially, a lot of doctors in general, but why is it cardiologists get so fixated on the LDL? No matter all the other numbers get better, every other number you can test gets better, why do they get so worried about that one number?

Marylou Hopkins:
How we started the conversation. They’re trained that way, so this is ingrained. [inaudible 00:28:13]. How many times do you say that? I say it all the time, but it’s ingrained. That’s what they know, and the other thing to consider is, again, totally personal, not professional opinion, but I want to know what’s going to happen in 20 years to our lab values. Okay? Because they’re going to have to change because if people are getting healthier but these weird numbers that we’ve been seeing over the last 45, 50 years of us eating bad food, right?

Carole Freeman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marylou Hopkins:
We’re eating bad food, then they tell us these are our healthy numbers. Well, what’s going to happen in 20 years when a lot more people are eating this way and realizing that it’s healthier? It potentially could adjust those lab values. So I think, I mean seriously, you look at even fasting glucose, cholesterol, what else do I see that changes funky? Because they’re not having the swings of the sugars, they’re not having things that are drawing them up and down. Our triglycerides, honest, unless you have a medical condition that causes those triglycerides to go up independent of your foods, a lot of times triglycerides shouldn’t be above 80. [crosstalk 00:29:40]. Right? That’s almost half of what the recommended is. So I think that will happen down the road, but just remember, this is what they know, this is how they’ve been taught. This is across the board, and they have to protect themselves too.

Marylou Hopkins:
The other thing I want to mention actually very important right now in this whole conversation is that after that incident with my mother, one of the things… I mean, of course I’m livid, okay? My mom’s kicking butt here and she looks great and she walks out of her doctor’s office crying, I’m so angry. So the one thing I do want to mention is is that they are held to a standard too. So there is a lot behind the scenes where if your cholesterol, Carole, is 250, and that doctor does not say, “Hey, you have to go on a statin,” it could be medical malpractice. So you have to be careful when you get into medicine, but always remember you’re your own advocate. So you are your driver, this is your body. Okay? So if you have the ability to change your foods for forever and it works for you, great, but the other piece is, how many times your little upside down funnel, pyramid, so [crosstalk 00:31:12] things and nothing works.

Marylou Hopkins:
So when you’re in medicine and you say, “Hey, I want you to go out…” it’s getting too hot there isn’t it? Your 110 degrees, but say, “I want you to go and I want you to change your foods. I want you to lose 10 pounds and come back and see me.” So this person goes out, they change their foods, they don’t lose 10 pounds and they come back and everything is still crud. What do you think the physician feels like? They didn’t do it.

Carole Freeman:
Right, they blame the patient. It must be, because that’s all they’ve learned is that, well, if your cholesterol is high it’s because you eat too much red meat, you don’t eat fruits and vegetables, you don’t exercise. You must eat fast food [inaudible 00:31:57] time.

Marylou Hopkins:
You see what I’m saying? So it’s all of these. It’s what I tell people all the time about just in general about changing your foods. There’s a whole line, there’s a lot of things that intertwine into everything we’re dealing with. So as long as you’re open minded and you’re patient and you have a good relationship with your physician, so that’s the other one now. When you back up, having a physician that is… what’s the good word that I want to… is, I don’t even know what the word… I’m so sorry. So is willing, is willing to hear you and willing to follow you closely even if you’re not making the changes they want you to make or whatever. That’s key, it’s really… which is honestly half the reason we’re so busy. You got this guy here, works with you, figures things out. He doesn’t not prescribe statins at all. He will absolutely say it, but if the patient says, “Hey, I want to change something, can we try this or can we try that?” 100%, you see what I’m saying?

Carole Freeman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marylou Hopkins:
I don’t know how to read the comments, by the way.

Carole Freeman:
Oh yeah, I don’t think you can. I don’t know that you can see them or not. Only when I put them on the screen. So I’ll catch up with those in a minute. So basically, to recap and summarize, it’s very complex. Doctors, keep in mind that cardiologists aren’t trained in nutrition at all, so the recommendations of eat less red meat, more fish, more vegetables and fruit, that’s just stuff that they’ve heard. It’s not their training.

Marylou Hopkins:
They’ve learned, that they’ve been taught, remember?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
Not heard but it’s taught, it’s ingrained.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, yeah. They are also trained that if that LDL number is a certain thing, you have to prescribe a statin or you could lose your license. Also, you won’t get paid by insurance, that’s a whole other thing. Your insurance rate payment also is dependent on whether you’re following standard of care, which is prescribing medication. So they have to do these things. So they’re not trained to look at the whole picture, they’re trained to look at just each individual thing in isolation. So there’s a lot of reasons that they recommend this, and it’s not that they’re bad or doing wrong thing, they’re following what they’re supposed to do.

Carole Freeman:
So how then, how does a person go about… I mean, this person’s trained, they can prescribe medication, they can do surgery a lot of times. How can we as a lay person feel comfortable at all in knowing, well, if all that stuff we’ve been told isn’t true, how do I know? Where do I go to get information so I can empower myself? Can Cassie is asking, for example, she’s asking for books or websites that we could possibly [crosstalk 00:34:52].

Marylou Hopkins:
Actually, I feel terribly unprepared. I can send you a link, it should be on Adapt. So on the Adapt issue, so Eric is on there, Eric Thorn.

Carole Freeman:
Let me find it.

Marylou Hopkins:
He actually has a… was it on that, or maybe they was a Facebook… there was a Facebook video. I’m not exactly sure, but he has a video that he talks about how to talk about this with your physician.

Carole Freeman:
Okay.

Marylou Hopkins:
Perfect.

Carole Freeman:
The Adapt your Life, or what’s the-

Marylou Hopkins:
Yeah, Adapt your Life. Right, and then-

Carole Freeman:
Okay, I’ll see if [crosstalk 00:35:32]-

Marylou Hopkins:
… [crosstalk 00:35:33] Eric Thorn and if it doesn’t, Carole, I will send you the link when we’re done.

Carole Freeman:
Okay, cool.

Marylou Hopkins:
But so the, okay, easy overview. You go in, you talk to your physician, you explain to them, this is what I’m doing. You also have to be prepared for them not to accept it. Okay? If they don’t accept it, you can be grateful, thank you for your time, it’s okay, and you can leave. Then you’d have to figure out something else. Now, having said that, you know there is a ton more physicians now than there were even five years ago. Okay? You’re just fine. Actually, one of the greatest websites that I use all the time, Low Carb USA. Okay? You go in there, they have physicians listed. Now, I will tell you that going in there, it’s a little weird because sometimes they’re not really low carb, keto, but it’s fine. They’re in there, that means they’re going to hear you, it’s about medication adjustment.

Marylou Hopkins:
Now with telemedicine, I’m just kidding. There might be more opportunity to find a physician that will follow your numbers. They have Virta, but I think Virta’s more towards diabetes, but [crosstalk 00:36:59] thing where they actually work specifically with your physician. Then I will tell you, we have people that travel. They come in and they’ll meet with him and they do a class and leave, and then they’ll come back if they need. So there’s lots of ways, but you want to be comfortable and you want to know that your physician is hearing you, and if they don’t, it might be time to find a new one.

Carole Freeman:
So this is Penny’s question in a nutshell, yeah. How does a layman argue with a cardiologist? Well, there’s a strategy to it, she just went through that.

Marylou Hopkins:
Get me in there, I’m just kidding.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
But so you don’t argue, I think that’s number one. Don’t argue. You don’t have to argue, there is no argument there. You’re going to do whatever you need to do that’s best for you. You go in, and like I say, you can… now, I’ll tell you in nine years, we have had a million people bring in tons and tons and tons of stuff to Dr. Thorn and be like, “Here you go.” He’s like, “Yeah, I know.” Okay, now you take that to somebody else who knows. They might not be able to go through it or they might not understand it, but you just… I would say number one, don’t stress too much. If the physician is willing to follow you, okay, and be able to make recommendations, they don’t have to believe it because guess what? You’re going to show them. You’re going to be their first case. Next thing you know, maybe they’ll be recommending to everyone else, all of the rest of their patients, but don’t stress if you have a hard time.

Marylou Hopkins:
If this is like my mother, that was her lifelong freaking physician. She was devastated but then she got over it, she found another physician, worked with them, he still pushed bariatric surgery which really pissed me off, but it’s fine. So but you got to understand where these people are coming from. Also know that just I’m sorry, I push it a lot but please be your own advocate if you know something works for you, if you feel good and if you’re seeing on those numbers everywhere, labs and scale and fat mass and all of that, come one. That’s way healthier.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, I’m going to add some interjections more about the LDL because I know that that’s the one that the person who wrote in the question is like, my doctor’s freaked out about this one number but this is also something doctors aren’t trained in. Again, they’re trained like, if this number is this, then equals that, which is medication. Then they have to offer it, again, okay. So but when I was in school we were looking at research that showed total cholesterol and LDL rates, and associations with heart attacks and stroke, which is really what people are worried about, right?

Marylou Hopkins:
Right.

Carole Freeman:
That’s what we’re worried about, we’re worried that our cholesterol is going to cause us to die of a heart attack or stroke or have one.

Carole Freeman:
So we were in class and she’s going over the bell curve and so the bell curve looked like this. So the total number was like this and the higher it got, the lower the risk it was. So they picked an arbitrary number in the middle that happened to be at that time 200. Just drew a line, they just picked a number, a nice, round number. It didn’t correlate with the worst outcomes, it was just that it was an even number. So I raised my hand in class and I was that person, that I was always like, “Wait, this doesn’t make any sense.” There’s a higher risk… the risk doesn’t get worse until you get out to 400, why did they pick it? Actually at 220 was lower than it was at 200. So I said why? They said, the teacher was like… this was professors at a prestigious university. This is just because this is how we’re taught. So people that aren’t questioners like me, the professor said, “Well, it was just a nice, round number, it’s easy to teach that to people that way.” It didn’t correlate with risk, it was just a number. So if you weren’t paying attention in class and nobody asked that question when you were in class, you’re going to miss that. Okay?

Carole Freeman:
The other thing to know and I don’t know if cardiologists are taught this or not, but that LDL number does not correlate… this is building on what I just said. That LDL number does not correlate with how many heart attacks you have or how many strokes, or if you die of a heart attack. It’s not-

Marylou Hopkins:
Actually-

Carole Freeman:
[crosstalk 00:41:52] really high. So I interviewed a lady earlier today to work with and she two years ago had a heart attack. She said that her doctor was, oh, wow, that’s puzzling because her cholesterol numbers were perfect beforehand, perfect. So then they had to come up with an excuse of why it was and they said, “Well, you have some sleep apnea so that’s probably what caused it.”

Carole Freeman:
So, I’ll just [crosstalk 00:42:21]-

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:42:22], okay, wait a minute.

Carole Freeman:
[crosstalk 00:42:24] statin now because even though her cholesterol’s normal, they’re worried about her. Well, but I mean, that’s a whole other case, but.

Marylou Hopkins:
Right, so all of that is fine. Honestly, one of the things that people miss all the time is your A1C.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, her blood glucose, she’s pre diabetic, and I’m her A1C yeah. So I talked a little bit about that. The bigger correlation.

Marylou Hopkins:
Exactly. The heart and A1C are hugely correlated and nobody ever talks about it.

Carole Freeman:
Insulin as well, which is this… my client that’s written in with the question, worried about the LDL, I’ve had her tracking her insulin number and it’s come down. She’s at I think about a six or a seven, which is doing really well.

Marylou Hopkins:
Oh, that’s great.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, but-

Marylou Hopkins:
Remember something else, Carole. For real, as far as since we’re talking about labs is, everybody is different. Everybody varies, so when you get these things if you can, take a step back and look at the overview. For the person that didn’t have their labs prior, who knows? Maybe their LDL was already high and then they changed their foods and their fat helped it to increase but in a good way. Or the A1C, man, like I say, or your insulin or your C reactive protein, you’re talking about inflammation markers there. Just because somebody’s CRP is high, that doesn’t mean it’s dangerous. It’s something we watch, something that-

Carole Freeman:
[crosstalk 00:44:10].

Marylou Hopkins:
Right? It’s another marker of another thing where if you can put everything together, it might make more sense. But you can’t freak out about a change in one or even two or three numbers. Depending on the direction that they go, if you have somebody that is familiar with this regarding labs, you go in and they’ll be like, oh it’s fine.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, so Penny shared a little bit more about her history. So she had lap band in ’09. Then she had lots of problems, we’re getting the pieces here.

Marylou Hopkins:
Sorry, Penny. I know the problems you have.

Carole Freeman:
Then she had it drained, regained 50 pounds, and then she turned to keto and she’s been doing really great but her cardiologist frowns on it because her LDL… let me… is high but HDL is higher. She sent me another here that says HDL is higher. So she’s saying she needs to argue with her doc now. So we talked a little bit about, you don’t need to argue.

Marylou Hopkins:
No arguing, it’s a smile and wave, like okay, oh is that how you feel? Thank you very much, and then you go look for another one. It blows my mind. We got back to the bariatric surgery and she had a lap band, right?

Carole Freeman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marylou Hopkins:
What is lap band? It’s literally squeezing to where you can’t swallow things. Come on, man. [crosstalk 00:45:46] foods, had a lot of lap band patients that I will have them take their fluid out and jump on… and then it was… I don’t know if they still do lap bands today, but that was a rough one. But she’s come back down, she’s doing good, and all her problem right now is the fact that her LDL is high. Again, I would tell her, get a lipoprotein NMR. Okay? But she also has to get it because a lot of times they won’t order it unless they read them. So you want to have a doctor that will do it. Then you just call around, a lot of them do but call around and see. It’s just a blood draw, no big deal, but it’ll just break down that cholesterol for her and give her some peace of mind.

Marylou Hopkins:
Now, if that whole makeup is all jacked, well, then maybe going on a statin is an option for her. As long as she doesn’t have side effects, again, her choice. What makes her feel most safe? As long as she’s not having negative side effects, okay, but it’s up to every individual patient. I never push on either side, ever.

Carole Freeman:
I had another questions. What was it?

Marylou Hopkins:
I know, [inaudible 00:47:14].

Carole Freeman:
We got all the ones of the people that were watching here. Yeah, I don’t know, maybe it’ll come back here.

Marylou Hopkins:
So I see Kathy asked about resources [inaudible 00:47:30]. So the number one out there is obviously going to be the Big Fat Surprise. I do love that.

Carole Freeman:
I see she just has a new cover on it, so.

Marylou Hopkins:
She what?

Carole Freeman:
It’s been updated with a new cover.

Marylou Hopkins:
Oh, how exciting, but she’s great at that. The other one is Sugar, the Bitter Truth. No, yes. No, yes. Sugar, the Bitter Truth, is that the one that came out two years ago from… oh my goodness, why am I blanking?

Carole Freeman:
Taubes?

Marylou Hopkins:
Yes, Gary Taubes.

Carole Freeman:
[crosstalk 00:48:08] The Case Against Sugar.

Marylou Hopkins:
The Case Against Sugar, thank you. I’m sorry, they all get mushed together, but The Case Against Sugar, I’ve been doing this for how long. When I came out and I read it, I was just like, oh my… I can’t-

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, right?

Marylou Hopkins:
Because it’s like, one of the ones you get all heightened about was the darn sugar that they soaked the tobacco in sugar. I was like… because-

Carole Freeman:
Inhaled sugar. How much worse is that for your lungs? Yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
Right? So anyway, those are two great resources. The Big Fat Surprise I love because she does go through the whole timeline and where the fat fairy came from. Then backs it up and talks more about how today we deal with it, but then again, the sugar wine was mind blowing because it just drives me crazy. It always-

Carole Freeman:
Do you-

Marylou Hopkins:
It’s hard to control when you get a little passionate about things.

Carole Freeman:
Have you read the Cholesterol Myth? I can’t remember the author of that one.

Marylou Hopkins:
I have not, is it a good one?

Carole Freeman:
Yes, where he breaks down that LDL isn’t associated with risk and on and one. Case Against Sugar, the other one, or have you ready Eat Rich, Live Long?

Marylou Hopkins:
I mean, I have it. I haven’t read it front to back. I’m really bad about that, so.

Carole Freeman:
That one, I also really liked because they do a condensed version of why we were told fat was bad for us. Then their favorite test… this is the question coming back to me now, is the CAC, the calcium arterial scan. Are you a fan of that? How does that compare to NMR?

Marylou Hopkins:
So in our practice, there are patients that get it done. I don’t have a ton of information on as far as what… how do I say this not medically speaking. Does that make sense? So I don’t want to overstep here but we do have times where people will have crazy cholesterol, they get a calcium score to look a little more at where they’re at. Usually calcium scores aren’t covered, so it’s not something they order all the time, but I can promise you in our area they’ll have sales on it. It’s so weird, like it’s Macy’s.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, [inaudible 00:50:44].

Marylou Hopkins:
It’s Macy’s. Hey, we’re having a sale today on our calcium scores, sign up now. So they do that in most areas, and yeah, you shouldn’t spend more than $100 on it but it’s a good test to have. Now, do you have some crazy cholesterol? You have a calcium score and it’s high? It sways your own decision of what you need but you have a crazy cholesterol, large particles, and then a calcium score that’s zero. Well, then guess what? You may be okay, but again, just remember this isn’t medical advice. It’s something you have to talk to your doctor about but we definitely do that.

Marylou Hopkins:
But the only other side to that is that you do one now and then you do one in a year. Make sure they’re okay and just watch them, but absolutely. A calcium score would be beneficial.

Carole Freeman:
In Eat Rich, Live Long, they actually give some recommendations about if your score was in this range, here’s when you should get another one. So I like that too, so they break it down. [crosstalk 00:51:55].

Marylou Hopkins:
Perfect.

Carole Freeman:
So basically, you’re overall summary is, one number doesn’t mean much of anything, we need to look at the big picture, we need multiple pieces of information to know if you’re healthy or not. So for example, if somebody weighs 200 pounds, do we know if they’re healthy or not? They could be six seven, they might be too skinny, they might be overweight. So just one number doesn’t mean anything. Let’s say if it’s 70 degrees out, does that mean it’s hot or cold? Well, it depends on if you’re in the antarctic or if you’re in Arizona. [crosstalk 00:52:26]-

Marylou Hopkins:
Or Virginia.

Carole Freeman:
… more information, yeah, yes. What’s the humidity, how many clothing are you wearing, right? Because if you have three coats on and it’s 70 that’s going to be too hot. So we need more information, so.

Marylou Hopkins:
I love that analogy, Carole. I really like that.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent, well it looks like it’s almost time to wrap this up, Marylou. Is there anything else that you want to add or share? Any other tips of wisdom or experience, nine years of doing this?

Marylou Hopkins:
Well, okay. You want to hear my favorite one?

Carole Freeman:
Yes.

Marylou Hopkins:
Okay, you guys are all going to hate me for this. So the one thing I would tell… so I hear people all the time, that’s their question. What’s the one thing you see is the biggest… I don’t know, thing that messes everybody up, is nuts, guys. Any kind of nuts, every kind of nut, and every nut flour, stay as far away from them as you can. I heard your girl last time said, don’t do net carbs. That’s 1,000%, but the nuts thing, it’s a hard one because it’s on every website if you are struggling with your weight and you are eating nuts, cut them out and tell me how you feel.

Carole Freeman:
Yes, that’s one of my starter rules, is I have everybody cut out all nuts of all kinds because for most people, one is never enough. I love that you include the nut flours as well, because even though we’ve got so many wonderful options for keto foods now, we’re going a little bit too far into the dessert-y territory and nobody needs to eat an entire piece of some carb-y dessert that’s made 100% from almond flour because that’s the equivalent of a pound of nuts that they’re eating in that one thing, so.

Marylou Hopkins:
It’s crazy, right?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
For me, like I say over the last nine years of coaching patients, the response that we have towards any kind of the nut family is so strong that I can detect it when they come in. They’ll walk in and I’ll be like, they’ll start talking and I wait a few minutes. Then I’m like, “Hey, you eat any nuts?” I’m not kidding when I say that it would be more than 75% of the time they’re like, “Oh yeah, huh.” [crosstalk 00:54:57]-

Carole Freeman:
Because they’re high in protein and they’re good fats so they must be fine.

Marylou Hopkins:
Absolutely, exactly. So stay away from the nuts and nut flours, how about that?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, that’s great.

Marylou Hopkins:
One day my cookbook will come out, but it might be after I die, I don’t know. I haven’t gotten around to making it, so. It’s fine.

Carole Freeman:
I’m in the same boat. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being here.

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:55:23].

Carole Freeman:
So how do people on the East Coast come and find you, or are you guys doing telemedicine, or?

Marylou Hopkins:
So, I don’t know state wise, I think they’re a little different right now but we are at Virginia Hospital Center. Oh, I guess I didn’t say that either but. We’re at Virginia Hospital Center, it’s Dr. Eric Thorn. VirginiaHospitalCenter.com is our website, you can look that up. Then, and if they just need a physician to see them, for that they don’t have to do my program. Okay? So we have a lot of keto people that need their labs, they want to be followed. They’ll come and just see him. He knows what’s going on and he can adjust things for them.

Carole Freeman:
So take a vacation out there, you guys. Go see the wonderful, perfect fall out where Marylou is and if you need a cardiologist oversee your healthcare.

Marylou Hopkins:
There you go.

Carole Freeman:
Who is keto friendly. You don’t have to do any arguing at all. You can do some high fives.

Marylou Hopkins:
Well, quarantine fives.

Carole Freeman:
Oh okay, yes, yes. Plastic gloves through a plexiglass shield high fives. Oh my gosh, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for answering-

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:56:39] too long.

Carole Freeman:
No, this is perfect, this is perfect. So yeah, thank you so much. We’re going to wrap this up. Thanks for all your questions, thank you Marylou, for being here. We’ll wrap this up for today. This has been so fun, this has been great. Indulgence in top and top… talk about topics that I love to rant about. We got a lot of work to do in the world still.

Marylou Hopkins:
Well, we’re here. We got this.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, yeah.

Marylou Hopkins:
[crosstalk 00:57:07] by the way, you’re amazing.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time. I know you have a super busy schedule, so I really appreciate it.

Get a FREE 7-day Fast & Easy Keto Meal Plan: https://ketocarole.com/free-7-day-meal-plan/

Keto Chat Episode 127: Dr. Bikman Shares the #1 Thing You Should NOT do to Reverse Insulin Resistance

About Dr. Bikman:

Benjamin Bikman earned his Ph.D. in Bioenergetics and was a postdoctoral fellow with the Duke-National University of Singapore in metabolic disorders. Currently, his professional focus as a scientist and associate professor (Brigham Young University) is to better understand the role of elevated insulin in regulating obesity and diabetes, including the relevance of ketones in mitochondrial function.

Purchase Dr. Bikman’s Book: Why We Get Sick: The Hidden Epidemic at the Root of Most Chronic Disease―and How to Fight It here.

Disclosure: Please note that some of the links above are affiliate links, and at no additional cost to you, I will earn a commission if you decide to make a purchase after clicking through the link. Please understand that I have experienced all of these companies, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions I make if you decide to buy something through my links. Please do not spend any money on these products unless you feel you need them or that they will help you achieve your goals.

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Transcription: 

Carole Freeman:
Hey, welcome everyone to our live guest expert interview today for our keto lifestyle crew. Hey, it’s Carole. You know who I am, but I am… Oh my gosh, you guys, I’m so excited about our guest this month, Dr. Benjamin Bikman. Oh my god, I’m going to read your bio off the back of your book. By the way, he wrote a book. When we get sick, I’ve recommended it to all of you. Pretty much everyone in our membership has bought the book, so they’ve done their homework here. I’m just going to read your bio off the back of the book because I think it’s a perfect place to start.

Carole Freeman:
Benjamin Bikman earned his PhD in bio engineer. Every time I read it in my head, I can say it, and then I can’t say it out loud, bioenergetics, and was a postdoctoral fellow with the Duke National University of Singapore studying metabolic disorders. Currently, his professional focus as a scientist and professor at BYU is to better understand the origins and consequences of metabolic disorders, including obesity, diabetes, with a particular emphasis on the role of insulin. He frequently publishes his research in peer reviewed journals and presents at international science meetings. Welcome, Dr. Bikman.

Dr. Bikman:
Carole, thank you so much, delighted to have the time with you to talk about anything human metabolism.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. I’m so thankful that you’re taking the time. I know you’re on your whirlwind stay at home book tour right now. I can’t imagine how busy you are, but this is… I can’t tell you how excited I was when I found out that this book came out because this is the book that we need. This is the book that everyone in this world needs to read. I’m not even joking about that, because, oh my gosh, the whole keto world that I’ve been in, this is the underlying piece, and a lot of people really miss it. I appreciate you being here. Thank you so much.

Dr. Bikman:
Well, my pleasure. In fact, thanks for pointing out the book. Really, to me, that book is the reason for keto. Whether people know it or not, at least to me, keto is used because of how effectively and how rapidly it improves insulin sensitivity, fighting insulin resistance, which itself is so fundamental to so many chronic diseases. That’s why so many things get better on keto. It’s because you’ve controlled your insulin.

Carole Freeman:
Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, let’s start out with the basics, if you don’t mind, because I know you speak a lot of professional conferences, but we’ve got just average people here. Let’s start out with some basics so that we can… These are things that we talked about and needs to be refreshed constantly, because they’re just not topics that people are used to hearing about in school. Let’s start with the basics. What is insulin?

Dr. Bikman:
Insulin is a little hormone that is… It is in fact quite small, that is flowing through… I mean, quite small compared to other hormones, even. It’s flowing through our blood. It comes from the pancreas, and then moves all through the body, and literally tells every cell in the body to do something. Every cell in the body has insulin receptors. That is not that common among hormones, where every single cell is affected. There are others, but insulin is one of them. The general theme of insulin is telling cells to store things, take in energy and store it and make something with it.

Dr. Bikman:
It’s anabolic. It’s building things up, so if all of us have insulin flowing through our blood right now, unless the person is a type one diabetic, that is a disease of no or too little insulin because the cells in the pancreas that make the insulin are getting destroyed. That’s the autoimmune disease. But other than that, it’s a hormone flowing through our blood. We most typically identify it or recognize it with its effects on glucose. The most common effect of insulin is to lower glucose, but that’s not fair to insulin. It does a lot more than that.

Carole Freeman:
It’s a much bigger player. A silly question, is insulin bad? Should we get rid of all of our insulin?

Dr. Bikman:
It is not bad. When people don’t have it, like untreated type one diabetes, it is lethal. Within weeks to months, you’ll die, so you must have this hormone. It is simply in our environment. We have too much, and so the hero becomes the villain.

Carole Freeman:
Well, I fear that insulin may go down the same path that cholesterol did for a while, right? Like, “Cholesterol is bad. We should get rid of all of it,” and the same thing is [crosstalk 00:04:58] insulin.

Dr. Bikman:
That’s right. We want to make sure that we’re being… I want to make sure I’m being nuanced in how I talk about this. It is not just an outright villain. Like, people, there’s more dimensions to this character here. Like I said, in normal levels, insulin is our friend. In the levels most people have it, it is not their friend. It’s gone beyond.

Carole Freeman:
Those of you that are watching right now, go ahead and put your comments or your questions for Dr. Bikman in the comments. I’m going to get to those very shortly. I just wanted to set some foundational things here with him first for you. Go ahead. I know some of you have to leave early, too, so go ahead and put your questions in there. Heather, I’ve grabbed your question already as well too. Don’t worry, we’ll get to that. The next logical step here then is what is insulin resistance? That’s also a concept that’s a little tricky for people to understand.

Dr. Bikman:
I’m thrilled you’re asking, because it is so necessary to understand insulin resistance to then appreciate its role in other diseases. Insulin resistance is really two things together, well, in every case. It is that insulin isn’t working the same way it used to throughout the body, so some of the body cells aren’t responding to insulin like it normally does, like they used to. Then second, this phenomenon of not working well is coupled with too much insulin being in the blood, so what’s called hyperinsulinemia, so hyperinsulinemia, too much insulin and insulin not working the same way before throughout the body, those are the two sides of the coin, which is insulin resistance itself.

Carole Freeman:
Nice. Do you mind if I indulge you in my analogy I use for explaining what insulin resistance is?

Dr. Bikman:
Lay it on me.

Carole Freeman:
I want to see if you’ll love it. I equate it to a fire alarm. When blood sugar gets too high, insulin is that fire alarm telling the cells, “Quickly do something. Take this [inaudible 00:07:01] to get it down to normal levels.”

Dr. Bikman:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
But just like if we heard a fire alarm right now, both of us, the first time we heard it, we would take it very seriously. We would evacuate the building. But if we came back, and then two hours after that we heard another fire alarm, okay, maybe the second time again we’d take it seriously. But if every two hours or maybe every 30 minutes, we started to hear another fire alarm, we just get to like, “This is getting ridiculous.” We’d start to ignore it. We just go about our work. But what if there really was a fire every 30 to 60 minutes? The fire department would have to get more creative. They would have to come up with a louder fire alarm.

Carole Freeman:
They would have to have bells. They would have to have lights, and maybe go so far as having glittered cannons coming out like, “No, no, really, really, it’s another fire, I promise. Take it seriously.” That’s the analogy I use to explain what happens is the cells just start to… They get overwhelmed with this constant fire alarm signal, and they just start to ignore it because they got work to do otherwise.

Dr. Bikman:
That’s perfect. In fact, what I like about your analogy is that you’re also touching on the causes of insulin resistance. The main cause, as I identify it, is too much insulin. It’s funny because someone just heard me describe too much insulin as being part of insulin resistance. It is, but too much insulin, just along with your analogy, is one of the causal factors. It is a fundamental feature of biology. Too much of a stimulus will result in a resistance to that stimulus. The cell or the body will start to… Just like what you said, it will start to stop listening.

Dr. Bikman:
It won’t hear it as well as before. That’s almost a survival mechanism. “There’s too much of this. I have to stop responding to it.” Some cells do stop responding. Some don’t. They now then suffer just because there’s too much insulin telling them what to do. I like your analogy because it highlights the cause, but it also therein highlights the solution. If too much insulin is what’s driving insulin resistance, one of the key solutions is then lowering insulin.

Carole Freeman:
Yes, so we need to stop setting our metabolism on fire or trying to set it on fire.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes, that’s right.

Carole Freeman:
How do we know if we’re insulin resistant?

Dr. Bikman:
I like to joke that there’s an at-home test that you can take, and that is just, “Are you a little overweight, and do you have high blood pressure?” If someone has hypertension and they’re overweight, it’s very likely they have insulin resistance. I say that with some degree of confidence simply because hypertension is almost always a result of insulin resistance. It isn’t always, but almost always, and so if we couple the hypertension along with someone who’s a little overweight, it’s very likely to be insulin resistance. That’s the easiest way.

Dr. Bikman:
The most definitive way, of course, is actually getting a blood test. You can measure your insulin, or you combine your insulin, your glucose into the HOMA, H-O-M-A, equation. There are other ways. In fact, another one that’s convenient for people, if anyone has had a recent blood lipid test, take the triglyceride number divided by your HDL number. The triglycerides divided by HDL, if it’s less than 1.5, it’s a very good sign that you’re very likely insulin sensitive. If it’s higher than that number, if it’s getting up into the twos and beyond, then you’re very likely insulin resistant. Those are the best ways.

Carole Freeman:
I love this tip, actually, because a lot of my clients, they actually have to fight their doctor to do an insulin test. It’s crazy making that there’s a very simple test, and they get met with things like, “Oh, your insurance isn’t going to cover it,” but it’s not even that expensive of a test.

Dr. Bikman:
No.

Carole Freeman:
It’s like $26. This is a good one, because pretty much every doctor would be willing to run a lipid panel, and so we can use this as a proxy. That’s so great. I love that. Probably everyone already has that one, so optimal numbers, so one of the things… As I was listening to your books, I listened to it, and then I read it. One of the notes I wrote down that blew me away was that one point higher in insulin makes you 20% more insulin resistant. Can you break that down a little bit, and let us know what does that really mean?

Dr. Bikman:
Yes. If someone is coming in for regular checkups, let’s say, and the physician is friendly enough to this idea and measuring insulin, if you detect consistent rises in insulin, even modest, it’s that much more correlated. It is correlation with insulin resistance. The likelihood of you developing full blown insulin resistance just starts to magnify. It starts to grow. But still touching back on your analogy, insulin resistance is in a way, aptly defined as a disease of too much insulin. That is what type two diabetes is in actuality.

Dr. Bikman:
Type one diabetes is a disease of too little insulin. Type two diabetes is a disease of too much. What they have in common is that neither disease can control blood glucose very well. They’re both very intolerant. They cannot metabolize this molecule particularly well. In one hand, it’s because there’s not enough insulin to clear it. On the other, it’s because insulin isn’t working well enough to clear it.

Carole Freeman:
I love one of the things in your book. You came up with a really cool, succinct way of covering your dietary recommendations for reversing insulin resistance. Number one is control carbs. Number two is prioritize protein. I love the alliteration with these.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes, thank you. That was very deliberate.

Carole Freeman:
Number three is filled with fat, meaning the rest of your calories come from fat.

Dr. Bikman:
Yep. I’m very fat friendly just because it is the macronutrient with the least and often no effect on insulin. If we can appreciate the paradigm you and I just outlined that too much insulin is causing insulin resistance and the solution is to lower it, well, then the obvious way to lower it is just don’t eat anything, but that can’t… I mean, that’s not totally sustainable. Of course, you got to eat something at some point, so why not focus on the macronutrients, especially fat but also protein that have little or no effect on insulin? Eat those two together the way God intended, and just keep the carbohydrates in check.

Carole Freeman:
Now, I want to stop here and point out that your number two recommendation here is to prioritize protein. It’s not filled with fat first, prioritize protein. Would you agree that one of the biggest mistakes that people in the low carb and keto sphere do is that they restrict protein in trying to reverse insulin resistance that they go too far, and protein gets the…

Dr. Bikman:
Get the shaft?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Dr. Bikman:
In fact, that was part of the reason I laid it out the way I did. I didn’t like what I was seeing where there were people who were getting a lot of their calories from just MCT oil. I thought, “We have gone too far when we’re drinking fat to get our calories because that wouldn’t happen in nature.” Fat comes with protein. That’s how these foods come. The best protein sources come with fat. Positioning it the way I did, it was basically my way of saying when you put together a real meal, focus on the protein, but acknowledge that this is going to come with fat.

Dr. Bikman:
I may add fat to it. I may be putting butter on my steak or on my chicken or whatever. Good. Do it that way. Don’t say, “I’m going to have a bowl of butter, and I’m going to add protein into my butter.” I just didn’t want to… which is almost how some people look at it. I just didn’t quite like what I would see from time to time, and so that’s why I put it the way I did.

Carole Freeman:
Well, just like everything, all things in balance, and so we’ve got people that have just taken this message too far that we need to minimize insulin altogether. Do you have any comments on the idea that some people really think that fat is just this free food, and since it doesn’t have an insulin response, that it’s fine, and we can eat as much as we want of it? [inaudible 00:15:53].

Dr. Bikman:
Well, I do think that we can be pretty liberal with it. I really do. I say that just because I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it work with people, where they don’t fear fat. They eat it very liberally, and they are just shedding pounds. Part of that is quite simply that if you’re keeping insulin low, you have a higher metabolic rate, and so if the person’s getting all that calorie from the fat, they are clearly getting it out. They’re clearly burning it. The energy has gone up. We have two ways that the body deals with those states of almost pure fat consumption, which again, I don’t think is natural, and I don’t encourage it.

Dr. Bikman:
But fine, let’s just go with it. One is what I just mentioned. If you’re keeping insulin low, metabolic rate is higher, even to the point of it being almost 300 calories a day higher than if you’re spiking insulin. That is a meaningful amount of calorie difference. But second, if you’re eating fat, and you’re keeping insulin low, you’re making a lot of ketones. Ketones are in one form eliminated from the body. When we convert ketones to acetone, which we do, we are breathing it out, or we’re urinating it out. Just appreciate then what a ketone is.

Dr. Bikman:
A ketone is a piece of metabolized fat. This was a fat molecule that we either had to store, or we had to burn. Well, we just wasted it. We just dumped it from the body, and that is energy. Ketones have an actual caloric value, and so we’re just pushing these calories back out into the universe, and we didn’t have to store them or burn them based on our metabolic rate. We just wasted them.

Carole Freeman:
I think I caught a key that you said there that maybe makes a big difference is that when your insulin is low optimal levels, then the fat amount is not something you have to worry about. Whereas perhaps when somebody still has pretty high insulin level, you’d go out to get that down lower.

Dr. Bikman:
Well said. Well said. Even still, I wouldn’t want someone to misinterpret. I am not advocating just eat fat anytime as much as you want. No, I just think that is unnatural. Eat fat with protein the way that they’re supposed to come together.

Carole Freeman:
I love that. I was listening to your keto connect interview today, the last couple of days. I just really love that, using an ancestral template of how does food come in nature. It was a big aha. Proteins and fats come together naturally in foods. Protein generally doesn’t come with the high amount of carbohydrates in food.

Dr. Bikman:
That’s right. That’s right.

Carole Freeman:
All of you out there listening, trying to think of a food that’s high protein and high in carbs, it just doesn’t exist, or maybe somebody is going to come up with some bizarre something, but-

Dr. Bikman:
It’s not common. It’s not common.

Carole Freeman:
Yes. Pam is actually asking here… Let me put this one on the screen here. Pam is asking, “How do we know when our insulin levels are just right?”

Dr. Bikman:
Pam, if you go get an insulin test and your insulin levels are at six micro units per mil or lower, then that’s perfect. Now, I will say there is some variability. Every hormone, there is a pattern to insulin. Again, every hormone has a cyclical pattern throughout the day, and insulin is no exception. If you see that it is even double that, if it’s in the low teens, it could still be okay. You might have just caught it at the peak. But if you get a low number like six and below, then you’re great.

Carole Freeman:
We also already got the proxy measurement too, the triglycerides divided by HDL, and you have that below 1.5.

Dr. Bikman:
I’d like to joke that’s the poor man’s method, but it’s very accurate.

Carole Freeman:
That’s great. Let’s see. Where are my leave offs and my questions here? Let’s see. Here’s a fun one. What are some of the mistakes, or what should people not do when they’re trying to reverse their insulin resistance?

Dr. Bikman:
I would say don’t drink smoothies. That’s something. I know that we love smoothies. I get it, but that is a terrible way to take food. Not that drinking food is inherently a problem. It’s just when you’re making a smoothie out of fruits and vegetables, you’re thinking you’re getting all this wonderful stuff, but you’re not. Don’t make smoothies. When it comes to fruits and vegetables, which I do consider is generally fine, with my first rule of control carbs, I basically just say, “Fruits and vegetables are fine, although there’s some nuance there, but eat them don’t drink them.”

Dr. Bikman:
Too many people just want to drink them. Don’t do that. Don’t do it that way. Don’t try to… I guess a second piece of advice, let protein and fat come together. They’re supposed to come together. Eat them together.

Carole Freeman:
The only smoothie we’ve designed to have in our life is mother’s milk, and that’s [crosstalk 00:21:07] early in life.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
Otherwise, we should be eating our food the rest of our life.

Dr. Bikman:
Yep.

Carole Freeman:
Mother’s Milk is the original smoothie.

Dr. Bikman:
It sure is. It’s the perfect thing for growth. It is high in all three macros.

Carole Freeman:
Oh my gosh, I had a total tangent here that’s related, but there’s this new series on Netflix called Unwell. One of the segments is about these people that are consuming breast milk as a cure-all is the next thing.

Dr. Bikman:
Oh my goodness.

Carole Freeman:
It’s the next thing.

Dr. Bikman:
Oh my goodness. I saw once there was a place that they made ice cream from human breast milk.

Carole Freeman:
It’s weird that we think that’s gross, but [crosstalk 00:21:47].

Dr. Bikman:
I know. I know.

Carole Freeman:
Let’s see. I had a question come in on Instagram earlier yesterday, too. Colt Milton at SuperSet your life is asking what types of protein cause the biggest insulin release?

Dr. Bikman:
That is a good question. It does depend on the amino acid profile. Us talking about how protein can have an insulin spike, it would be more accurately stated as various amino acids have higher insulin spike. I can’t exactly remember that is a good question. If I remember correctly, it’s going to be dairy protein, and then I think chicken or something like that. But if you’re eating that protein, even still, in the context of low carb, the insulin effect is less.

Carole Freeman:
Well, and I remember Dr. Michael Eades talking about as well some research probably at Low Carb Denver last year about how the more refined and processed a protein is, the more effect it has on influence and other ingredients too.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes, that’s exactly right.

Carole Freeman:
All right. Well, shout out to Dr. Eades’ protein power.

Dr. Bikman:
He’s awesome.

Carole Freeman:
Heather, let’s see. I grabbed her question here. Her question is at the end of this. She says that, “I’m very curious. Does insulin resistant… Does it have any genetic component, or are we all equally susceptible?”

Dr. Bikman:
No, it absolutely has a genetic component. Absolutely. In fact, people don’t really know this, but type two diabetes, which is insulin resistance, is much more genetic than type one is. It’s much more likely that if a parent is type two diabetic, that they will have a sibling or a child or a parent, whereas type one just pops up, and typically has nothing to do with any kind of familial inheritance. Yes, there’s absolutely a genetic component. I would say much of that genetic proclivity or tendency to become insulin resistant is probably fundamentally a difference of people’s fat cells.

Dr. Bikman:
In other words, how do your fat cells grow? Do your fat cells grow through just getting big, which is hypertrophy of the fat cell, or do they only get modestly big, and then they start to multiply, which is hyperplasia of the fat tissue or fat cells? If you genetically are more inclined towards hypertrophy, and many people are, then you will become more insulin resistant than otherwise. We see this in ethnicities like Indians, Asian, Indians. They have a profound tendency to become insulin resistant, and there is much more adipocyte hypertrophy, for example.

Dr. Bikman:
There is no doubt a genetic component, but I would hate to say this and have Heather or anyone else be discouraged by it. No, even if you have a genetic tendency, we know this is something you can fight extremely well by changing diet. I do mean extremely well. These are changes where people can have profound improvements in insulin sensitivity in just days, including to the point that they start getting off medications. Don’t let that discourage you. There’s very much a genetic component, but that doesn’t mean you can’t fight it.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. I want to back up and talk a little bit more about protein, because early in the keto days, everyone was super worried about protein. I know that there are still a group of people out there that are really worried about protein. But can you share with us why is it that we don’t have to worry about protein intake so much on low carb or keto to reverse insulin resistance like we thought we did?

Dr. Bikman:
Yes. I mentioned this a moment ago. It really is dependent on the underlying glucose levels, that if you take in these amino acids in the midst of high glucose, it will amplify the insulin spike from the glucose alone. It’ll bump it up even higher than before. In contrast, if there’s no influx of glucose, and glucose is at base levels, then there’s a modest insulin spike from the amino acids alone, but it is in fact significantly more modest, but it’s there it happens. It’s really just dependent on whether the body needs to make new glucose.

Dr. Bikman:
If you’re eating protein, and you’re not eating glucose, the liver has to be turning on gluconeogenesis or making glucose from scratch basically. If insulin spiked, that process stopped. Insulin inhibits gluconeogenesis, and so it’s just the cleverly designed system which basically tells the body, “Look, I’m eating protein. I can have some modest insulin spike just letting my body know where to put the amino acids, but it can’t go too high, because if it does, I can’t keep making glucose from gluconeogenesis.”

Carole Freeman:
It sounds like it’s part of the wisdom of the way the body was designed is that, again, we pointed out the fact that protein and sugar or carbs don’t exist in foods together. It’s not a natural state to eat high carb, high protein food [crosstalk 00:27:22].

Dr. Bikman:
That’s right.

Carole Freeman:
It would make sense that our body starts to dysregulate, and it doesn’t like that combination together.

Dr. Bikman:
A lot of people will think that they’re being clever by stacking protein and insulin together, or protein and carbohydrate. They’ll say, “Well, I’m getting more of an anabolic effect. I’m going to get bigger muscles because of this.” It doesn’t happen. There’s human studies to show that if you eat protein, you’ll get a particular rise in muscle growth. If you eat protein with glucose, it doesn’t get any bigger than the protein alone, but that stands in contrast to what you see with protein and fat. When protein and fat are consumed together, you do get an additive anabolic effect compared to just the protein alone, so once again, pointing the finger at just nature doing it best, which is protein and fat.

Carole Freeman:
Well, I know that Colt Milton at SuperSet your life is going to be really interested in that last point because he’s into bodybuilding. I know that he’s going to be really interested in that part.

Dr. Bikman:
Good.

Carole Freeman:
I loved also that you cover in your book, I’ll just show it again here, why we get sick. I love that you talked about the role of salt in insulin resistance.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
Can you touch on that a little bit for us?

Dr. Bikman:
Well, isn’t that an unexpected aspect of it all? We’ve been told for so long that salt is one of the enemies. Like saturated fat, we need to avoid it at all costs. It is interesting to note that insulin plays a role in telling the kidneys what to do with what they filter, including salt. On the flip side of this, elevated insulin stimulates the kidneys to hold on to too much salt and water, and so blood pressure starts to climb and the person has hypertension. In contrast, if a person stops eating salt, because it is such an essential molecule in the body, then the kidneys start to do everything they can to hold on to whatever salt they can.

Dr. Bikman:
Because of the mechanism I just mentioned, which is insulin helps the kidneys hold on to salt, one of the unintended consequences of restricting salt is the insulin goes up. Then you see this real phenomenon where severe salt restriction actually starts causing insulin resistance.

Carole Freeman:
Oh my gosh, all these things, the last 50 years of nutrition, we just [inaudible 00:29:38] it all on its head.

Dr. Bikman:
We got it so wrong.

Carole Freeman:
I apologize every day to people. I mean, I wasn’t personally responsible, but I sure shared a lot of that misinformation [crosstalk 00:29:51].

Dr. Bikman:
Same. Same. I was a personal trainer during my master’s degree about 20 years ago. I hated it, by the way, but I would spelt the same kind of nonsense. I look back into, and shudder to think how much more effective I could have been had I known then what I know now, but that’s of course, the theme of life. I would have made all kinds of different decisions.

Carole Freeman:
A little bit of Microsoft investment in the early days.

Dr. Bikman:
Right.

Carole Freeman:
But then we wouldn’t have you doing this amazing work you’re doing now.

Dr. Bikman:
That’s true.

Carole Freeman:
I’m glad you didn’t invest in Microsoft early on.

Dr. Bikman:
I would retire. I would have been in a sailboat somewhere by now.

Carole Freeman:
Let’s see. Oh gosh, here’s another really great question. This is a long question here, but I’ll summarize it for you. Basically, this is somebody who has a lipedema in her lower body. From what I understand, you actually can have some of your cells genetically in your body can be different levels of insulin resistance than others. For example, people with lipedema, those cells are more insulin resistant than the other cells in their body. She has noticed that she gets water retention in that part of her body with excess of salt, with alcohol consumption.

Carole Freeman:
She’s wondering how is it… She’s already lost 40 pounds. How is it that you can continue to improve insulin resistance with lipedema?

Dr. Bikman:
Unfortunately, lipedema is pretty poorly understood. All I will add to this is this idea that this lady, she probably also has a higher expression of lipoprotein lipase in those fat cells. Very briefly, lipoprotein lipase is the actual enzyme that tells the body where to store fat. Insulin tells the body how much fat to store. LPL works with insulin, but it determines where we store fat. That is generally very genetic, not exclusively. We can manipulate it somewhat through diet, but it is genetic where women who are putting fat in some of these awkward places like ankles, lower legs, or back of the arms, that is because of a higher expression of lipoprotein lipase.

Dr. Bikman:
The sad reality is there’s nothing you can do really. I’m getting a little off topic, but in those places where the body has the selective deposition of fat, because of lipoprotein lipase expression, that will be the very first place fat goes, and that will be the very last place that comes from the person. In this lady, perhaps, if she wanted to cut that fat out, she would have to get almost to the point of having a six pack 10% body fat before she’d start to really lose the fat around her ankles.

Dr. Bikman:
The lipedema, I can’t really speak to. I don’t know too much about it, but I would say even then, it’s fat cells that just have more LPL.

Carole Freeman:
I theorized that since insulin resistance influences salt retention and fluid retention, that perhaps [inaudible 00:33:09]. I have another lady as well that has the same lipedema in her lower body. She has the same thing where she tends to be a little more salt sensitive, and it causes more fluid retention there. I’m wondering if it’s related to the fact that because those cells are more insulin resistant, they’re retaining fluid much more than other tissues in the body.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes. If someone is retaining water, that is a sign of insulin resistance in general, I would say the fact that they’re noticing it more in the limbs. That could indicate just more of a blood pressure problem or an actual limb problem. That edema is basically fluid that has left the blood and hasn’t made its way into the lymph vessels, to the lymphatic circulation. That is edema. There could be that there’s some mismatch there, including hypertension. Frankly, pushing the water out more readily than it can be pulled into the lymphatics or fat blocking lymph flow as well.

Dr. Bikman:
But yes, water retention in general is a sign of the body’s insulin resistant. The high insulin is not allowing the kidneys to let the water go.

Carole Freeman:
Another adjunctive thing we’ve had for them that’s worked well is doing lymphatic massage to help get that fluid back up to where it should be in the body, so it can be excreted too.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
These are people that have been following low carb keto for several years now too, so all right. Let’s see. Here’s another one from Heather, “Regarding the discussion with too much hormones resulting in the cells stop listening, is that also what happens with adrenal fatigue?”

Dr. Bikman:
This is a tricky answer, because as a scientist, I have to say there’s no evidence to even support that adrenal fatigue is a real phenomenon. I do say that with caution, because science doesn’t always know everything. But I guess I would have to just say I don’t know how real adrenal fatigue is. As a scientist, I’m a little skeptical because I don’t know of data to fully support that idea. But let’s say it is, just if for no other reason than to be diplomatic, let’s say that adrenal fatigue is real. That is a big assumption.

Dr. Bikman:
I want everyone to know that I’m saying it that way. Then yeah, probably, it could be that these chronically elevated levels of cortisol are resulting in a reduction in the sensitivity to cortisol. But to counter that thought, even as I say it, it doesn’t happen in actual cortisol syndromes like Cushing syndrome or Cushing disease. The cortisol continues to just wreak absolute havoc on the body. Adrenal fatigue, I wish I could answer that with more optimism. I don’t know that it’s a real thing, but I do know it’s a popular thing.

Carole Freeman:
I went back to university, which is all about, “Here’s your adrenal fatigue. It’s a thing. Here’s the herbs to treat it and all that,” but there was a podcast I listened to from Rob Wolfe, where he interviewed a naturopathic doctor, and he kind of spun that whole thing on its head. He basically showed that what we think of as adrenal fatigue is actually just inflammation that’s suppressing the optimal function of the adrenal gland, and it ties right in with insulin resistance [crosstalk 00:36:55].

Dr. Bikman:
I could buy that definition. I could absolutely buy into that, that this is actually a consequence of chronic stress mixed with some inflammation. Yes, I think that would probably… I could get behind that definition. The idea of adrenal fatigue are the adrenal glands are just stopping working.

Carole Freeman:
I’ve seen that. I mean, my own past story, which I won’t get into now, I had all the symptoms of adrenal fatigue, but as soon as I started low carb keto, the symptoms went away immediately, and so we’re like, “The adrenal fatigue is a real thing.” Kemp says like, “Oh, it takes six or 12 months to heal it,” but as soon as we drop insulin down significantly, the body starts to work the way that it should, and then the adrenal fatigue evaporates. It goes away.

Dr. Bikman:
I’m interested though. This Heather Brown gal, is this a picture of Heather? Is this you running a fricking iron man?

Carole Freeman:
She does. Yes.

Dr. Bikman:
That’s incredible. You don’t have adrenal fatigue. You just have fatigue, [crosstalk 00:37:53]. I hate to break it to you.

Carole Freeman:
She says she did her math. Triglycerides and HDL are exactly the same, so it’s easy math for her. She’s at 1.0.

Dr. Bikman:
You’re sitting pretty.

Carole Freeman:
Cassie, she did get her insulin measured with her doctor.

Dr. Bikman:
That’s great. Eight is great. It really is. In fact, one of the original studies, I came to the number six that I came to, was looking at at eight was a good number from a study from the University of Arizona. That insulin with that glucose, you’re doing great.

Carole Freeman:
Cassie also has been following low carb keto for about four or five months now and has also dropped a significant amount of weight too.

Dr. Bikman:
Frankly, Cassie, I wouldn’t be surprised if very often your insulin levels are in fact six or lower. Like I said, there’s always a little bit of shifting around there.

Carole Freeman:
Dr. Bikman, I heard somebody speaking somewhere that five was good and three was optimal. Is that just going too far then or?

Dr. Bikman:
No, I’d be interested… I’m curious where you would have heard that or seen that. No, I wouldn’t disagree with that. I know lots of people that actually after being keto for a while, their insulin is one and two, and they’re perfectly healthy. That is a pretty strict cutoff, I would say that. I don’t think we need to be that extreme.

Carole Freeman:
I know for Cassie that when she got the result of eight, she said it was actually very motivating for her, because as women, we’re told the scale is king but to have this other health marker that she’s shooting towards like, “If I can get this down one or two more points,” for her, that was very motivating.

Dr. Bikman:
Good. Good. Well, that’s a good number. Cassie is doing fine.

Carole Freeman:
Good job, Cassie. Heather’s reporting back that, “Thank you for the question. You answered that very well.” Here’s somebody else asking about, “Will you have him talk about exercise?” Let’s see. I know he wrote about specific types of… Somebody’s read your book. This is great. I know he wrote about specific kinds of training being best for lowering insulin. Curious his thoughts about yoga. Is it the best to hold a pose, like a plank, until you can’t any longer, which is to failure rate?” Let’s talk about exercise.

Dr. Bikman:
I’m happy to. Yes. In fact, the older I get, and the more I am doing more calisthenics-based workouts, the more I appreciate the power in picking a pose, especially at near maximal tension, and holding it, and so including various yoga poses. When I say point of maximal tension, I mean, find… I don’t know enough about yoga to know what poses would fit with this. But let’s say, for example, I want to work my biceps, I would lay on the ground in a push-up type position, but then put my hands so that my hands are actually down by my waist, and then push myself up like that, and then hold it, so my arm, my biceps are maximal tension.

Dr. Bikman:
In contrast, I could put all my weight on my body with my arms bent like this, and then be pressing a handstand, but focus, hold the position when my muscle is at almost maximal stretch, and hold that there. As long as you go to failure, it doesn’t matter how you did it. You’ve done the single best thing you can for your muscles.

Carole Freeman:
That’s your next book is then how to get fit and toned and hillier. I think, that’s [inaudible 00:41:47]. By the way, that’s [crosstalk 00:41:47].

Dr. Bikman:
How to get swole, written by a man who’s frankly a little scrawny.

Carole Freeman:
Pam’s got another good question here. Let’s see. How do you recommend getting additional salt intake? Salt, shots, supplementation or other methods?

Dr. Bikman:
Well, this might be a boring answer. I would just say salt your food. I hate to… That’s anticlimactic, I know. Well, let me elaborate, though, a little bit. I am an advocate of salt. I love the Redmond Real Salt people. Personally, I know them. I think they’re fantastic. Boom. I would say having said that, one of the drawbacks of all these sexy salts that we have these days is that we may not be getting enough iodine. There was some wisdom behind adding iodine to salt once upon a time. It’s because the consequences of not having enough iodine are absolutely disastrous.

Dr. Bikman:
If you start to run out of iodine, then you run out of your thyroid hormone, although we do have a reservoir of thyroid hormone in our blood that we can start to call on. But if you run out of that stuff, the consequences on your brain are disastrous. As adults, we could overcome it and get out of that brain fog. If it happens in a kid, it is potentially irreversible, the brain damage, the delay, the brain delays that the kid will experience. Make sure in the midst of all these wonderful salts that we have these days that you are finding ways to get iodine.

Dr. Bikman:
If you’re eating a lot of seafood, you’re going to get iodine. Otherwise, I would say just get on to Amazon and buy a little potassium iodide dropper, and take one little drop a day, and you’ll get all you need. But if you aren’t getting iodine, good luck with normal thyroid function, and then the brain will be the first tissue to suffer once you start running out of thyroid hormone. You will if your iodine is deficient.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, great, so we don’t have to do the table salt with dextrose in it to get the iodine [crosstalk 00:43:53].

Dr. Bikman:
Good point. That’s right. Good point. Good point. Just find other ways to get iodine, and there are plenty. Again, if you eat seafood, you’re fine, but we don’t eat seafood really, so make sure you get it.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. All right, last call for questions everyone who’s watching right now. Let’s see if I can pull out one more. Let me look through my notes of all the questions I wanted to ask you. We talked about optimal amounts. What is insulin? Let’s see. In your book, you talked about basically how insulin resistance is tied to pretty much every chronic illness and disease and condition that we’re suffering from, which makes a lot of sense, because even in our lifetime, we can remember that there weren’t this epidemic of autoimmune conditions.

Carole Freeman:
All these people weren’t allergic to every food that they ate, and all those things. Just in a snapshot, can you explain how is insulin resistance related to all these problems we’re suffering from?

Dr. Bikman:
If we remember the definition of insulin resistance, which is insulin isn’t working quite the same way, but there’s too much of it at the same time, then we start to… We can almost go from top to bottom. The brain does become insulin resistant, and it can’t get enough glucose to meet its energy needs, and so it starts to suffer. You see that not only with Alzheimer’s disease, but you actually do see the brain doesn’t get enough glucose in Alzheimer’s disease. You see it also with migraine headaches, which is why when you fill that energetic gap by giving the brain ketones, which it can use perfectly well, the brain suddenly gets better.

Dr. Bikman:
They may never have another migraine again as long as they’re in ketosis. The brain, the heart starts to suffer where the insulin resistance is promoting heart growth, so they have this cardiomyopathy or the failing heart. The blood vessels are too constricted, and we have too much blood, and so we have hypertension. The liver is constantly being inundated with this insulin signal to make more fat, and so the liver can develop fatty liver disease. The gonads, I mentioned the infertilities in women and men with PCOS and erectile dysfunction respectively.

Dr. Bikman:
Our muscles as they become insulin resistant, they can start to experience sarcopenia or muscle wasting. Same with bones, joints, and skin and on and on. It matters.

Carole Freeman:
Yes. Too much is not a good thing.

Dr. Bikman:
The nice thing about it is that once we acknowledge the role of insulin resistance behind so many of these chronic diseases, then we acknowledge that we don’t have to try to treat every disease as an individual problem. We can address the core problem, and the rest of the things will start to take care of themselves.

Carole Freeman:
It’s beautiful. It’s lovely how just this dietary change I get to help people with makes this huge difference of head to toe, everything gets better in them, so it makes sense. All right, this person is asking, “Dr. Bikman, can you explain the connection with high cholesterol, heart disease and insulin resistance?” I picked a three-second topic. Right?

Dr. Bikman:
Yeah, that’s not an easy one, but I’ll take a crack at being brief. Let’s look at it from the perspective of LDL, where LDL cholesterol may matter, emphasis on may. There are studies to show that it is correlated with heart disease. There are studies to show that it is not. Let’s say that it is, or how can we reconcile these disparate findings? It could be that looking at just LDL cholesterol number doesn’t tell us what we need to know. Maybe what we need to know is the LDL diameter. The smaller, more dense LDL particles are thought to be able to physically invade the blood vessel wall more easily than a larger, more buoyant LDL particle, because we can have the spectrum of size.

Dr. Bikman:
Insulin resistance pushes an LDL pattern B or a small dense LDL, which is thought to be more atherogenic. I guess I’ll just leave it at that.

Carole Freeman:
For those of you in the… Well, everybody here is in the membership, but I’ve got a cardiology nurse coming on next month for our guest expert so we can ask that person a lot more too. Let’s see. Cassie is asking, “Dr. Bikman, do you have any thoughts, pros, cons of dairy products?” What do you have?

Dr. Bikman:
I do of course have thoughts. I always do. I’m very thoughtful, which is a nicer way to say I’m very opinionated. I’m very thoughtful, so I have thoughts. I think in adults, I do think… Well, the evidence is actually pretty favorable that you can have adults drink more dairy, and it’s helpful for weight loss. I do think there’s something to be said for the lessons of our ancestors that we forgotten. Once upon a time, if an adult was drinking dairy, I think often, it would have been fermented. Anytime we had these foods that we were holding on to, it’s fermented.

Dr. Bikman:
What is the power of fermenting dairy is that the bacteria only eat the starches or the sugars, so it eats the lactose, and all it leaves behind is the protein and the fat. To my delight, with my palate, it leaves these tart little short chain fatty acids, which give anything that’s fermented that tart flavor. It’s because of the short chain fats that the bacteria pump out after eating the starches and the sugars. I think as adults, there’s a lot of power in fermented dairy, although normal dairy is probably also fine, but I do think dairy is, as we said, a food for growth.

Dr. Bikman:
It is a beautiful system in mammals, where mom makes this perfect cocktail of all three macronutrients, and it helps the baby grow as quickly as possible. Whole fat dairy in children, I’m absolutely in favor of. Full fat dairy in adults, I would just say, “Well, maybe you need to be careful with, and then focus more on the fermented dairy like yogurt or kefir or sour milk, those options.”

Carole Freeman:
Real sour cream, right?

Dr. Bikman:
That’s right.

Carole Freeman:
Nice. All right. Cassie’s got another one, a really good one here, too. How likely is it that we can get our mainstream medical field to start testing insulin resistance? She says that when she brought her labs back, it was normal, and the range is zero to 24.9.

Dr. Bikman:
I know. I know. That’s part of the problem. We’ve overlooked insulin for so long that we don’t even have a consensus number. I confessed this in the book very explicitly. Yes, so it is part of the problem. When do I think it’ll happen? I have no idea. But honestly, that is part of what I hope is a takeaway from the book if I am naive enough to kid myself that it’ll have some lasting impact. An impact I hope it does have is that there will be medical practitioners. There will be people in positions of power within medicine, that they will start to say, “You know what? Yep, we’re going to make this part of our routine number, a routine checkup.”

Dr. Bikman:
Then with that, just growing mountain of data, we can come closer and closer to really identifying what is a good consensus. Where do we want people to be?

Carole Freeman:
Right now, those lab range is normal. It’s just basically like, all the tests they’ve done, this is where the numbers fall between, right? We can actually have some research to look at, “Here’s healthy people. What are their numbers? Here’s people that have other things going on.” I’m curious then with your book coming out, have you had any kickbacks from the middle community, or have you had any stories of physicians that have had their eyes opened?

Dr. Bikman:
No. No. None. None, but I will say over the years that I’ve been preaching this message, I have, over the years, received good feedback. My favorite audience is actually healthcare practitioners. When I can speak to nurses and doctors or health hospital administrators, that is my favorite group of people, because when they see the data, as I outline it, just study after study, they appreciate it. They are glad to know. I think that’s an important… It’s important for me to remember but all of us, lest we look at our doctor or nurse and think, “Oh, they’re so ignorant. They’re so reluctant to change. They’re so egotistical about it.”

Dr. Bikman:
I’ve seen these seemingly egotistical, rigid, people change very, very quickly when they actually see the data. Everyone has a reluctance to admit they don’t know something. I think in medicine, maybe that’s perhaps more of a problem than elsewhere, but we only know what we’ve been taught or we’ve taught ourselves. In my experience, when these healthcare practitioners see the data, it leaves an impact on them, and then I like to think I’ve left that group… left them with a conviction to measure insulin.

Carole Freeman:
That’s great. That’s really hopeful and optimistic. That speaks to that psychology of when we believe something to be true for a long enough period of time, it takes a mountain of evidence to change that.

Dr. Bikman:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you for putting that mountain of evidence together for us in your book, but also the work that you’re doing too. Dr. Bikman, where can people find you on social media, websites?

Dr. Bikman:
Thank you. I am fairly active on social media, not as active as I sometimes wish I were, but then I wish I weren’t active on it at all another time. People can find me at benbikmanphd. Bikman is just spelled B-I-K-M-A-N, no C, benbikmanphd. I just share research on human metabolism, nothing personal ever. It’s not my jam. Then I have a website where you guys can… I will start providing blog content and maybe even video content, and that’s gethlth.com, H-L-T-H. While you’re there, I won’t mention any more than this. You can also look into a low carb shake that a couple of my brothers and I have made.

Dr. Bikman:
The fact is I think there’s just always something to be said for something convenient. That really is the purpose. We just wanted to make a better low carb shake, and so we did. Anyway, you can learn more about it there.

Carole Freeman:
All right, I’m sure we’ll have some people checking that out. People always want to check out shakes. Thank you so much for taking the time out your busy schedule for being here.

Dr. Bikman:
My pleasure.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you for answering everyone’s questions. Really, really great stuff. I’m just so grateful to you. The work that you’re doing is really, really important in this world.

Dr. Bikman:
Well, that’s nice. Thanks so much. Thanks again for the invitation. I had a great time. Thanks [crosstalk 00:55:15]. Thanks, everybody, for the questions. Thanks, guys.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:55:18]. Thanks, everyone. We’ll see you again soon. Bye.

 

Get a FREE 7-day Fast & Easy Keto Meal Plan: https://ketocarole.com/free-7-day-meal-plan/

Keto Chat 122: Living in the Moment: Finding peace of mind in this time of uncertainty.

Featured Guests:

Jack Slattery

Jack Slattery was a stand-up comedian until the great cancelation of 2020. He’s an avid user of psychedelics and has been practicing transcendental meditation for over a decade.

Becky LeBright

Becky is local mindfulness- and nature-based Expressive Arts Therapist in Washington. She focuses on integrative, creative, strength-based approaches to all that arises along our journeys.

Website: http://innerphoenix.wordpress.com

FB Page: @InnerPhoenix

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Carole Freeman:
Well, hello and thank you everyone for watching. We had some kind of an issue with the other one. Our guests are coming shortly. Thank you for being here. Hopefully you’re going to see this here, so welcome everyone to another episode of Keto Chat. Tonight’s episode is going to be focused on mindfulness. Oh no, it’s not working. (silence)

Carole Freeman:
Let’s see. Let’s see if it’s actually working. Let’s see, I don’t know. Can you guys see me? Is anybody there? I don’t know. My platform is telling me that it’s not working. That is StreamYard. That. Is anybody out there?

Becky Robbins:
Is it the same length for the people that we told about it?

Carole Freeman:
No, because otherwise they get to come in here. Nope. Oh, but [crosstalk 00:01:19]. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. I thought you were asking if it was the same length that we had to join.

Becky Robbins:
No.

Carole Freeman:
No, it should be in the same groups, in the same page, but I’m getting the same error unfortunately. This may not actually be doing anything. So, we’ll go ahead and we’ll deliver our full content. We may not have any live viewers because this doesn’t look like right now that it’s streaming on anything, but it’s going to be recorded and I will still upload it as if nothing happened. Oh boy, oh boy. Hey. Well, the first two days I tried to stream from the other platform I use. It didn’t work, and then the Saturday I had a guy that I watch on YouTube that does lives, he said, “My first three platforms crashed,” because everyone right now is trying to get content out. [inaudible 00:02:09], it’s the one thing that we’ve got.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah. Facebook Live has been working great for me as a backup.

Carole Freeman:
Well, I can’t have three guests on a Facebook Live though unfortunately.

Becky Robbins:
Oh, that’s true.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, and yeah. There’s issues with recording that. This has been great the last four episodes. So, let’s see. Saturday, Sunday, Monday. So, three episodes we had were really great, and for some reason now it’s not playing nice with Facebook. Well, we’re just going to do our show and people will be watching this at a later time. So, thank you all for tuning in later but again, welcome to our episode of Keto Chat. Tonight, we’re going to be focusing on mindfulness. How do we stay present in the present moment, in this current moment, as a way of maintaining sanity? As a way of not falling down in anxiety spiral. I’ve got a couple of guests here. They’re going to share some really great stuff, so welcome Becky Robbins.

Becky Robbins:
Hello.

Carole Freeman:
Jack Slattery.

Jack Slattery:
Hi.

Carole Freeman:
I am Carole Freeman. I’m going to be sharing with you as well a mindfulness exercise to help deal with emotional eating, stress eating. A lot of people are struggling with that at this moment. A lot of us. So, I’m going to explain why that it’s common right now that people are resorting to that or having a pull towards that, and give you some tips and a little exercise to go through that. So again, thank you for watching. As you’re watching this in the future, please let us know in the comments where you’re joining us from. So, let’s see. We have a free flow here, so which one of you would like to go first? Then I’ll introduce you.

Becky Robbins:
I can volunteer.

Carole Freeman:
All right, Becky.

Becky Robbins:
I’m from Seattle.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Becky is a local mindfulness and nature based expressive arts therapist in Washington State. She focuses on integrative, creative stressed …. Stressed. Oh, that was a [inaudible 00:04:13]. Strengths based approaches to all that arises along our journeys, and she’s got an exercise she’s going to lead us through, so welcome, Becky. Thank you so much for being here.

Becky Robbins:
Hi. Yeah, thank you. I brought the monkeys, but I’ve let them out of my mind so I can focus on you.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, that’s great.

Becky Robbins:
So surprise, surprise. I get stressed too. I’m human like everybody else, and so what works for me is figuring out what my body needs to calm down so that I can find out how to calm my mind. Sometimes I have to use both at the same time. So, one of the reasons I decided to go for a mindfulness and nature based therapy style is because nature is one of the ways that I can ground and find my center. I find that I’m breathing more easily, even right now I’m talking about it, I can sense that I’m not breathing as easily as I do when I’m walking out in nature.

Becky Robbins:
So, even right now you can just take a nice, deep breath and check in. Where were you holding? I was holding in my abdomen. That tends to be the place where I hold a lot of my stress and tension, and then that tends to feed up into my neck later. So, one of the exercises I’ll talk about some of the background first, but I’ll lead you through a breathing exercise and it’ll be a lot about noticing your body. Not quite the same as a body scan, but it’s not different enough to worry about it. It’s similar.

Becky Robbins:
So, one of the things that happens in my body and most people’s is it responds to stress. Whether you’re an empath or just somebody walking through [inaudible 00:06:02], you’re probably going to also notice other people’s stress. Unconsciously, your body will also respond to that. So if you’re walking around, you were having a totally chill day and you’re in a different environment and suddenly you notice tension, you might check out, what’s the vibe around me? Ah, there’s some people who are waiting for their prescription and they’re getting antsy, and I’m feeling that. So, my first step I’ll offer you is to check your external environment to see if there’s anything impacting you there when you’re stressed. Then whether or not that’s the case, second level would be to check in with your body and where you’re experiencing that stress.

Becky Robbins:
So, maybe for some you’re gritting your teeth or you’re making a face. Maybe you’re crossing your legs or picking at your fingernails, something that’s a stress response. Maybe you’re clenching your stomach or again, even just as I’m talking, trying to run down the list, feeling that tightness in my chest. My breath isn’t as deep, so slowing down. Okay, where is that? Take a breath there. See if it changes at all, and then we can go into this really cool mindfulness exercise which you can do anywhere, as long as your eyes are open. If you’re driving, maybe not with the eyes closed. So, take a minute with me. I’m sure you’ve all got lots of different body parts that you’re noticing right now, so you work with yours and breathe into that spot.

Becky Robbins:
So, we’re going to just start by putting our feet on the floor. Well, you shouldn’t be driving right now if you’re listening to this, but if you can put your feet on the floor safely and just feel that. Or if you’re sitting with your legs pretzel style underneath you, just feel your sit bones on the floor. Notice your spine. Is it slouchy? Is it comfortable? Then just wiggle around until you get comfortable, you could feel your sit bones on the floor, your feet on the floor if they’re touching. Then if you need to keep your eyes open, do, but if you want to close them, you can do that. Just take a nice, deep breath and notice your body. You have one. What’s it doing? What’s it telling you right now?

Becky Robbins:
Another excellent thing to do on your exhale, is to audibly exhale and to let out that stress. You can even make really silly sounds, because that’s the kind of day you had. That might get it out of your body. So let’s take three more of those together. Just really let it out. Now here’s part of the mindfulness. Noticing, how do you feel right now after checking in with your body and taking several deep breaths? Notice the quality of your thoughts. Is your mind slower, calmer? Still buzzing? Are you thinking about something different now? Is it softer? Then check in with your feelings. Are you feeling anxious, are you feeling worried, are you feeling calm? Whatever word, and if you don’t have words, you can think of a size or a texture. That’s an exercise for another day, but anything that helps you connect with what you’re feeling emotionally in this moment.

Becky Robbins:
Keeping breathing and then checking in, so you’ve checked in with your mind, you’ve checked in with your heart or your emotions. Now check back in with your body. What’s that spot, that place feel like that you were feeling tension in? Is it still tense? Is it relieved a little, or just happy you’ve paid attention to it? So just notice that. I know my stomach is more relaxed. Thank god I’m wearing yoga pants. So, this is step one in this exercise, or this exercise is step one in a series of exercises that I do. So, this is just the check in.

Becky Robbins:
If later you want to try something to really mark how it’s changing for you, you might get a little journal out next to you and write how you’re feeling when you sit down to do this exercise. That way you have a marker to see how different it is afterwards. Then as you continue to do this exercise throughout the day or throughout the week, you can look back at that and see the progress you’ve made. Sometimes that helps rewire your brain to say, “Oh, there’s something that I’m doing that’s working,” because you’re seeing the differences. You’re writing them down. You’re basically doing research on yourself, which is great, and now you have statistics. You could prove to yourself that this actually works. So, that’s one exercise that you can do to deepen the one that I just gave to you. Thank you so much for joining that exercise. Back to Carole.

Carole Freeman:
Wow. That’s great. That is so valuable. What do you think? I know you’re watching the replay right now, so how do you feel? How do you feel? What was the spot you noticed in your body, she led you through that, and then how did you feel different afterwards? I’m wondering. I’m going to challenge everyone who’s watching this to do this once a day. You’ve got time now. You know you have time. Do it once a day and see how this shifts. Really powerful. Very, very cool. We’ve got a little more time here, so I’m wondering. Can you share a little bit about how you got into the work that you’re doing?

Becky Robbins:
Yes. So, being the stressed case that I was, I needed something different in my life. Way back, god it was almost 20 years ago, I took a yoga class. I think it was at 24 Hour Fitness, just a yoga class. I was 24, 25 years old and I remember how I felt, and it was so different. I remember thinking, “Oh my god. I have got to teach yoga. I have to teach this to everyone I know. I want other people to be able to feel this, this difference.” So I went through some teacher training and then I went and continued. They say it’s 500 plus hours. It’s more like 750 hours, but it was a three and a half, four year training over all that got me to be a yoga therapist. During that, I also studied Ayurvedic medicine, which really helped me get in touch with my body/mind connection more and do so through food, which I think is about the time that I met Carole.

Becky Robbins:
I was exploring some of this food connection, and it was just really interesting to see that what I put in my body whether it’s food or media, for that purpose, can really impact me and how I see things, how I experience myself throughout the day. I know I was stress eating today. Crackers, crackers, crackers, and that kind of stuff definitely gets more monkeys in my mind. So, that really touched me onto the mindfulness part of my life, but I didn’t know it yet. That wasn’t a buzzword back then, not for me. So, that was cool. I was doing that while I was working in software, some high tech consulting stuff, and I never could figure out how they were going to come together. Sorry, side note, also I have always been an outdoors person. I have found that nature is my church, if you will. So, that’s where I can find happiness on any given day, and support.

Becky Robbins:
So as I continued towards this path of becoming a therapist, which I did not know I was on, I started randomly getting hit by other people’s cars. I’m a good driver. So, that happened multiple times and it kept happening when I was starting new software jobs. So, I got the memo. Maybe don’t go back. Then I had to figure out which career I was going to go into, and so as I was working with my own body, and diet, and healing, I found the path of counseling has been knocking on my door for a while. What I hadn’t seen yet to bring me to it was that you can really do a lot. You don’t just have to sit on a couch and talk. That is not the only way to do it, so I got outside with people. We go hiking. I do art with people. We make these little cards to speak to different parts of ourselves.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah. There’s so many things. Photography, poetry, dreamwork, so all of these tiny little parts of my whole life that I’ve been interested all along and probably been doing trainings with for 20 years as well, somehow collided in this counseling world. It’s been really helpful for mindfulness because we don’t always have words for things. We aren’t always going to talk it out if there’s something stuck in our body, and our breath is probably one of the first and foremost ways that we have control over our bodies and minds, and we can use it to self regulate. So when I learned that for myself, I knew that I needed to share that with other people and really I feel like counseling for me is a tree with many branches. There’s so many ways to help people. I accidentally found the branches while I was going through my application process to the school I chose. So, the branches picked me and here I am, what you have today.

Carole Freeman:
That’s so cool. I mean, I have a degree, well which was supposed to lead to therapist, but I wanted the education about how to do therapy but not to do the therapy. I had no idea that there was as cool things as what you’ve got going on. That sounds like really fun therapy.

Becky Robbins:
It is fun therapy. For everyone.

Carole Freeman:
[crosstalk 00:17:20] on Saturday. So on Saturday’s show, we’re going to be doing all kinds of arts, and crafts, and hobbies and stuff like that. So if you’re available, I’d love to have you come back and show the card things that you have.

Becky Robbins:
Oh, absolutely.

Carole Freeman:
We’ll talk about that later, too.

Becky Robbins:
That’s another exercise in itself.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, oh that seems awesome.

Becky Robbins:
Thank you.

Carole Freeman:
Looks like a mini vision board is what it reminds me of.

Becky Robbins:
It’s exact, yep.

Carole Freeman:
Okay, cool. Oh my gosh, so great. Thank you so much, Becky. We’ve been friends for, man, 10, 11. 10 or 11 years.

Becky Robbins:
A long time.

Carole Freeman:
I don’t know, I haven’t seen you in forever though, so it’s so great to connect this way.

Becky Robbins:
Yes. Still, yes.

Carole Freeman:
Look at these times that we’re in. It’s full of anxiety, and grief, and overwhelm and it’s actually so good to be able to connect with a lot of people I haven’t seen in a long time. So, thank you so much for being here.

Becky Robbins:
I’m happy to.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you so much. All right so next we’re going to go on to Jack. Jack, I haven’t known him nearly as long, but Jack Slattery was a stand up comedian until the great cancellation of 2020. He’s an avid user of psychedelics and has been practicing transcendental meditation for over a decade, and crows have brought him gifts before. Can’t wait to hear stories of that. So, welcome Jack. So glad you’re here.

Jack Slattery:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’ll take any stage I can get.

Carole Freeman:
What do you have to share with our viewers today, or whenever they’re watching this in the future?

Jack Slattery:
Yeah. Well, honestly it dovetails with Becky’s presentation pretty well, the mindfulness aspect of it, the breathing parts of it. That’s the core of transcendental meditation. Becky, do you do TM at all? It sounds very similar.

Becky Robbins:
No, but it’s similar.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah. It’s just doing that, but longer. Yeah, just longer really. You want to shoot for 20 minute sessions twice a day. I usually only do one, and that’s good, but twice a day is really doing it. It’s really helpful for someone, I mean it’s really helpful for absolutely anything, but for someone who if you want to feel more creative or get in touch with that kind of stuff, it’s great for bringing that up. It’s just great for cleaning, just sweeping the cobwebs out of your brain a little bit.

Becky Robbins:
Could you tell us a little, Jack, about transcenmental … See, I can’t. [inaudible 00:20:09]. Transcendental meditation. Can you give us a little bit of background about different types of meditation? How is that different than, I don’t know, other kinds?

Jack Slattery:
I don’t know. I’m far from an expert, I’m just a practitioner. This is the method I was taught. This is the way I know how to do it, and it works for me. I’m not sure. I guess we could go self flagellation is a form of meditation, right?

Carole Freeman:
[inaudible 00:20:43].

Jack Slattery:
It’s very different than self flagellation in that you’re sitting doing nothing rather than wailing and beating yourself.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. How did you get introduced to it?

Jack Slattery:
In college, a professor/mentor. He was a practitioner and a teacher of it. I expressed interest in it, and he taught me privately. I got some useful information out of it. Yeah, it was just a few series of private lessons but that’s all you really need to get going with it. It’s very simple, and that’s the whole point is that it’s simple. It’s literally doing nothing. It drives me crazy when people are like, “Oh, I could never do that. I could never shut my brain off,” but that’s not the point. That’s not the point at all. You’re not trying to stop thinking, you’re just trying to stop latching onto an idea and running with a train of thought.

Jack Slattery:
The way he, Dana, described it to me is that you would imagine that you’re at a train station. You just want to sit at the train station, and your ideas as they rise up, as they come into your mind, are trains entering and leaving the train station. You’re just watching the trains come and go, but you don’t get on the train. If you do get on a train, it’s okay. You just get off at the next station and you keep watching. So, that metaphor has always been pretty helpful for me. I don’t know, you’re meditating and then something comes up and you just start thinking about whatever, apples. Or a joke comes up, and you want to write it down. I don’t know, I usually keep a pad near me and I just write down ideas that come up like that. Just get back off the train, just sit back at the station.

Carole Freeman:
So, how long have you been practicing?

Jack Slattery:
About [crosstalk 00:23:03] 10 years. Yeah, about 10 years.

Becky Robbins:
Wow, [crosstalk 00:23:06].

Carole Freeman:
What kind of effects has it had in your life?

Jack Slattery:
It’s given me a lot of just calmness. I’ve been doing it so long now that I can just fall into a breathing pattern anywhere that I am. On a bus, in a bar, wherever and there’s just no tension. It just eases the tension. Good posture helps with that too, and drinking water, but just finding a rhythm in your breathing, I don’t know. It’s a superpower unto itself. You can just be calm anywhere you want. You just, I don’t know, start internally glowing. It’s nice.

Becky Robbins:
Sounds nice.

Jack Slattery:
It’s like a hot tub for your inner body.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, that’s cool.

Becky Robbins:
I’m going to go get in a heart tub.

Carole Freeman:
Sounds like you got everybody’s attention. Well, it’s a really powerful thing and I think it’s great that you mentioned too that a lot of people are like, “Oh, I could never do that because I could never turn my mind off.” Yeah, keep in mind that the goal is not to turn your mind off. It’s to watch it. You’re not trying to stop the trains, you’re just trying to observe them.

Jack Slattery:
Once you do it long enough and once you get into the habit of it, and it is a practice in that you’re not going to be good at it right away, and good at it doesn’t mean good at it but you’re good at it the first time you do it, but it gets better every time you do it. You’ll develop muscles you didn’t know that you had in getting into this brain state and breathing pattern. It does get easier, but the goal is to shut off the movie projector in your brain and just look at the blank screen. That’s kind of the goal. I’m going to totally forget what the Sanskrit word for that is, but there is one. I think it’s samsara, or simsara.

Becky Robbins:
Samsara.

Jack Slattery:
Samsara, yeah. You’re just blank. That is the goal. You’re aware, but you’re blank. You’re aware of your surroundings but your mind is just blank, and it’s great. It doesn’t happen all the time, but when it does happen, it’s really nice. David Lynch is a big fan of transcendental meditation, and there’s several YouTube videos you can find of him discussing the benefits that he’s had. [inaudible 00:26:01]. Jerry Seinfeld said he could have made a few more seasons of Seinfeld had he been doing two. He was already doing one 20 minute session, but if he had been doing two 20 minute sessions, he could have gone a few more seasons.

Becky Robbins:
Interesting.

Jack Slattery:
Again, I’m not an expert. I’m not a doctor, but it lowers your brain into a different type of state. I think it’s the theta wave state, which is essentially REM sleep. So, 20 minutes of a good meditation is equivalent to several hours of sleep.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, there’s lots and lots of research that validates all the many health benefits of meditation.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah, and I can give you the basic rundown of how to do it if you want.

Carole Freeman:
Sure.

Becky Robbins:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carole Freeman:
Sure. Lead us through. I mean, we don’t have 20 minutes to do it.

Jack Slattery:
The basics are [crosstalk 00:27:06]-

Carole Freeman:
It’d make riveting show, 20 minutes of us sitting here doing nothing.

Jack Slattery:
The basics are essentially that you just want to find somewhere comfortable to sit, a straight back is preferable. You want good posture. I like to do a little yoga before, just stretch it out. Just stretch it out. You can sit in a chair. I usually sit cross legged on my bed or something, but you can sit wherever, just as long as you’re comfortable. You want to make your hands like this. I find that helps. That keeps your mind [inaudible 00:27:47] as long as your thumbs are erect and touching, your mind is active, you’re not sleeping. That’s why you don’t want to do it when you’re laying down because you probably will go to sleep, and that’s not the point.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah, I can prove that every night.

Jack Slattery:
So yeah, you just kind of sit there. Your hands are belly button area, you just keep your thumb up, and you just close your eyes and breathe like Becky was showing us. If you need a mantra or something like that to just keep you sitting on that bench at the train station, you can go the classic O-M, om, or ram, or any derivation of that really. Whatever works for you, just a very simple tonal sound. It does help, and you can say it out loud or you could just say it internally in your mind. Either one. Real transcendental meditation, this is where it gets a little weird for me because I’ve never paid for the classes, but you’ve got to pay for classes and they give you your own individual mantra. I don’t know how that works. I have my own individual mantra. I believe the curse attached to it that I can’t tell you what it is, or something bad will happen.

Becky Robbins:
Sorry.

Carole Freeman:
What if somebody walked in on you while you were saying it, though? [crosstalk 00:29:14]

Jack Slattery:
[crosstalk 00:29:14] now.

Carole Freeman:
Okay.

Jack Slattery:
I rarely say out loud. Also, sometimes I like to put on three hour Tibetan bowl meditation.

Becky Robbins:
Oh yeah, that’s good.

Jack Slattery:
YouTube videos. There’s some pretty good ones, and just you can set the scene however you want. I go fancy. I light incense, I listen to Tibetan bowls, I get comfy. It’s fun. Then you’re just sitting there with your hands like that and you’re breathing in and out. That’s literally pretty much it. You’re just doing it for 20 minutes and then it gets wild. You’re like, “Oh. Just sit there and breathe for 20 minutes.” Yeah, but it gets crazy.

Becky Robbins:
It does.

Jack Slattery:
You’re brewing this popcorn. It’s just going everywhere.

Becky Robbins:
The monkeys.

Jack Slattery:
The monkey, yeah. Lots of stuff come floating up, and it’s going to be hard to sit on that bench at the train station at first. You’re going to ride all these ideas all over the place, and that’s totally fine. Just keep doing it. Just keep doing it, but a word of caution. Don’t do it, especially when you’re first starting, don’t do it for more than 20 minutes in one go. Don’t think, “Okay, I’m going to do it for 40 minutes all in one go and just get it over with,” because you’ve got a lot of sludge in your brain. You’ve got a lot of dark stuff in there, so you’re going to pull up a lot more than you want to deal with way too fast. It’s serious. Go slow.

Carole Freeman:
Well, that’s the American way. If some is good, more must be better.

Jack Slattery:
Right. [crosstalk 00:30:45].

Becky Robbins:
No, moderation.

Jack Slattery:
It is not. You can go into a weird depressive funk for a while if you meditate too hard, too fast.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah. Good cautionary tale.

Jack Slattery:
So, 20 minutes at a go, twice a day ideally.

Carole Freeman:
Is it okay if people start out with five minutes or a minute first if they’re starting out?

Jack Slattery:
I’ve never been a half dose kind of guy. I do the full thing, but if that’s what makes you feel better and comfortable, sure. Build up to it, whatever. It’s more about just starting it.

Becky Robbins:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carole Freeman:
Last Saturday actually, our show, somebody brought up streak trackers. So, this will be a great thing to be able to start to track, and so there’s some apps out there that you can track. There’s apps for run streaks, but there’s also apps that just track how many days in a row you’ve done something. So for those of you right now that have some extra time and you’ve always wanted to do meditation, you can download the Streak Track. It’s not this kind of streaking, but Streak Tracker.

Becky Robbins:
That’s so fun.

Carole Freeman:
Challenge yourself to start meditation. [crosstalk 00:32:03].

Jack Slattery:
Now is definitely the time, right?

Becky Robbins:
[inaudible 00:32:07].

Jack Slattery:
How many Netflix shows can you watch in a day?

Becky Robbins:
You can get that streak.

Jack Slattery:
You can set aside two 20 minute sessions a day. It’s like free drugs, it’s like free drugs.

Becky Robbins:
Yes, [inaudible 00:32:23]. You can also, if you do want to watch your Netflix shows, only let yourself watch two. Then do the 20 minutes. Then do the other two, but not until you’ve done the 20 minutes. Give yourself [crosstalk 00:32:33] some rewards. Then your brain will be happy to get a reward.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah, it’s great. I could keep talking about it. Okay.

Becky Robbins:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
That’s one of the reasons why I’m doing this show, is that I want to show people that although our tendency is to be worried, and stressed out, and overwhelmed, we have choices right now.

Becky Robbins:
We do.

Carole Freeman:
We have the option to use this time to improve yourself, to do all those things that you always wanted to do but say you don’t have the time to do. How many of you that are watching have always thought, “Well, I’ve heard meditation is really good for me, but gosh, I just wish I had the time to do it.” So, I challenge you to start a meditation practice, and if you do, tell us in the comments you’re going to commit to that and come back and share with us what that experience was like.

Becky Robbins:
We just gave you too, one 20 minutes, one was what? Three to five minutes. I mean, anywhere in between. So many different styles. So, find what fits for you.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Jack, anything else to say about that? I’m going to share a mindful eating exercise with people.

Jack Slattery:
No, no. I think I got it all.

Carole Freeman:
Okay. Like you said, you could probably talk for hours and hours on it, but thank you so much for being here and sharing that and taking the time out of your terribly busy schedule right now. I love that you’re color coded for branding here. I appreciate that. So, I’m going to talk about mindful eating. Again, I’ll just introduce myself. I’m Carole Freeman. I’m a board certified ketogenic nutritionist. I, too, as well used to be a comedian back before the big cancellation of 2020. We’ll see. Things are going to be very different in the future here, and not to brag, but actually I’m booked on a show on Friday. A virtual show that we’re going to try to figure that out for some ladies. If it works, we may be rolling out some more. So, we’ll see. I don’t know.

Becky Robbins:
Excellent.

Carole Freeman:
Part of standup comedy, is you have to have an audience. You have to have live bodies that are laughing because there’s an energy exchange, and you ride that wave. There’s a reason why all Netflix specials have a live audience or recorded with an audience. There’s also a reason why 80s sitcoms either had a live audience or a laugh track. Things just aren’t as funny if we’re just telling them, but although I’ve got to say there’s some comedians that I know that are out there doing live every night and it’s like, “Oh, you’re still funny even if there’s no audience.” So, they got something.

Carole Freeman:
Anyway, so I am trained. I’ve got a master’s degree in nutrition and psychology. I’ve got a certification in clinical hypnotherapy. By day, I specialize, and now by night too, I specialize in helping people be able to follow ketogenic diet as a longterm lifestyle so that they can end the battle they’ve had their entire lives with their weight, lose the weight, and actually keep it off because they get the support and the approach that they need to actually be able to stick with it. So, I weave in everything I’ve ever studied psychology wise into my keto approach, and so it’s part of why it actually can be a sustainable lifestyle. It’s not only, how do you lose weight quickly, but how do you address all the things that make it so that most people can’t stick with something? So, we’re dealing with getting rid of cravings, natural regulation of appetite, and behavior change which can be really challenging too.

Carole Freeman:
So, one of the things that I learned when I was in school was this concept of mindful eating. I learned this long before I knew anything about a ketogenic diet, and we learned this concept. Now, the problem is is that it doesn’t work really well, so people that are in weight gain mode, their insulin is really high and their body is constantly storing everything they eat as fat. When insulin is high, it makes it so that their fat can’t come out of storage. So they’re constantly hungry, they have very low energy, and they’re constantly gaining weight. So unfortunately, society looks at them as, “Wow. Why don’t they just exercise more?” Or, “Why don’t they just have control over what they’re eating?”

Carole Freeman:
Anybody who’s ever battled with their weight, which is everybody that I’m working with, they know that they have a lot of willpower. They’ve tried every diet out there and every time they do, they’re constantly hungry, they’re so tired, they’re obsessed with food. When they do keto the right way for the first time, often it’s the first time they’ve ever experienced freedom. They’re not hungry. They’ve got tons of energy, and their body is able to actually let the fat out of storage so that they can get the fuel that they need. So, they get this glimpse of freedom. Usually the people I’m working with have tried keto on their own, they couldn’t stick with it, they couldn’t quite get it right but they have a glimmer of hope that, “Oh my gosh. This is the first time in my life that I felt this freedom.”

Carole Freeman:
I found that when I applied the things that I learned, like mindful and intuitive eating, once people are already in the state of their body could actually use its own fuel that it’s been storing for decades, then these concepts work beautiful. If you tell somebody that’s in weight gain mode, they’re still burning carbs, their body is storing everything they eat, you tell them to eat mindfully, I’ll tell you what that is in a moment, it doesn’t work very well. So I’ll tell you my results. Mindful eating. My brain things of things in systems, and processes, and checklists, and outlines. So for me, the way I always thought of mindfulness is it has three different parts.

Carole Freeman:
It needs to be, you’re in this moment right now. I mean, right now. There’s no past, there’s no future. It’s just what’s happening right now. The second one is there’s no judgment. There’s no right, wrong, good, or bad. It’s just is. Whatever is happening just is. Then the third part of it is you’re in full awareness of your body in the moment. I’ve got a way of helping you get into that moment as well, so mindful eating then is that you’re making a choice right now in the moment of what to eat, and as you eat it, you experience it without judgment. Full of awareness of how it tastes and feels in your body as you consume it. So mindful eating, for the people that I’m working with again, once they’re in that ketogenic state and they’re able to actually tune in to, “When am I really hungry? When am I not hungry? When I’m eating, I’ve had enough when I’m satisfied and I can actually stop eating when I’m full.” This is where mindful eating is really, really powerful.

Carole Freeman:
So, a way of bringing yourself into a mindful state is what I’ve found and what I’ve learned works well for the people that I’ve worked with is to begin, and this actually overlaps with the hypnotic state as well, is to bring in all of your senses. So to help yourself be in this present moment right now without judgment, and to use all of your senses with full awareness, is to just think about the five senses that we have and then mentally check them off. Okay, so right now what do I smell? What do I see around me? All the colors and shapes of everything around me. What do I feel? Whether you’re sitting, you’re standing, on your feet. What do I hear? Right now I hear my cat sleeping down there snoring. I hear my own voice. I hear the fan in my computer. I hear a little bit of background noise from Becky and Jack. I think that’s all I hear.

Carole Freeman:
Taste is your fifth sense. Right now, there’s whatever the taste of my mouth, but as you’re eating food you’re going to be noticing, how does it taste? How does it feel in your mouth? How does it crunch? Doing this exercise can be really, really powerful with food because a lot of times people are eating foods that they just think are good, that they’ve always eaten, but they’re not actually conscienscious when they’re eating it to find out, does it actually even taste good? Do you like what you’re eating? I am a big advocate for don’t eat any food that you don’t like. Now, the coaching I do with keto, there’s definitely foods that taste really good to us that I encourage people to avoid, but also within the keto parameters, if there’s a food that’s a keto friendly food but you don’t like it, don’t ever eat it. Also if there’s a keto friendly food like steak, or bacon, or cheese as long as it works well for your body, it tastes good, it makes your body feel good, go for it.

Carole Freeman:
There’s sensory input that we have as humans, actually, from foods that don’t taste good or have a bad reaction in our mouth. It can mean that there’s a nutrient in there that you’ve received too much of that you don’t need any more of. So, animals actually have this wisdom. There’s no deer nutritionist out there. Deer go out in the wild, and they can eat the right amount of leaves and grass, they eat the ones that have the nutrients that they need. They don’t have any Jillian Michaels out there telling them to run 10 miles a day. “Well, you need to eat four cups of these greens, and then you need to eat four more cups of these, and that’s how you get all your nutrients met.” No. They taste and they eat and their body tells them, “That tastes good. Eat more of that. That tastes bad. Don’t eat any more of that.”

Carole Freeman:
So, humans have moved far away from that. Part of that is because most of our food is so overly processed, and refined, and hybridized, and high in sugar and fat and all this stuff together that makes it override all of our natural abilities. When we get back to real, natural food the way that is closest to the way that it’s grown, our body is really good at telling us what we need and don’t need, food wise. So, I’m giving you permission right now as a nutritionist, and again we’re not medical doctors, we’re not prescribing anything. Even me as a healthcare provider, I’m not telling you personally what you should do, but this is what I tell my clients. I’ll put that caveat, is that if there’s a food that you don’t like and you’ve been eating it because you think it’s good for you, I’m making a recommendation. I’m giving you permission right now to stop eating that. Stop eating it. If you don’t like spinach, don’t eat it ever again.

Carole Freeman:
Also, yeah. Foods that you do like that are healthy, whole foods, go ahead and enjoy that food. Especially if you can eat it in a mindful way. One of the big ones for the clients I’m working with is cheese. A lot of people tell me, “Oh, I can’t stop eating cheese. I love cheese. I feel so bad, I could never stop it,” but I’ll tell you what. Everybody who has had that struggle, I say, “I’ll give you an assignment. I want you for the next 24 hours, I want you to go and try to eat as much cheese as you possibly can,” right? They go, “Oh, no. I would eat so much. I would never be able to stop.” Never [inaudible 00:44:14].

Becky Robbins:
No.

Carole Freeman:
[inaudible 00:44:16] I’m going to try to eat as much cheese as possible, they’ll get tired of it. So, most people because they tell themselves it’s bad for them, then they put a limit on it. They’re like, “Oh, I can’t have very much. I can eat it.” So then they obsess about it because they can’t have it. So, I challenge you. Also, some people don’t do well with cheese. It doesn’t agree with them. So this is part of the exercise, right? So if you’re eating cheese, maybe it tastes good here, but as it goes down it causes you some discomfort and pain. That’s mindful eating. You know that it doesn’t feel good in your body. Oh, Jack’s got a-

Jack Slattery:
I just wanted to break in with this. Johnathan C ate a 500 gram block of cheddar cheese in three minutes, 56 seconds. It’s a competitive sport, cheese eating, and that’s about a pound of cheese. So, that’s the world record right now, is a pound.

Becky Robbins:
A pound.

Carole Freeman:
Okay, well that’s good.

Becky Robbins:
That’s a lot.

Carole Freeman:
He wasn’t eating mindfully, but also just a pound of cheese is not that much cheese.

Jack Slattery:
Right.

Becky Robbins:
He probably didn’t feel good afterwards.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. For people who think they could never stop, I’m sure that that guy probably didn’t want cheese for a month after [crosstalk 00:45:30].

Becky Robbins:
Uh-huh (affirmative), right.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Becky Robbins:
Thank you.

Carole Freeman:
If all you ate during the day was a pound of cheese, it’s not even going to be that many calories either. So, I challenge everyone watching this whether you’re following keto or not, is the next time that you sit down to any meal, whatever it is you’re eating, for those of you not keto or stress eating or whatever, this is actually an exercise I used to do with my clients before keto. Most junk foods out there, they’re specifically designed that they only taste good if you eat them fast, mindlessly.

Becky Robbins:
Damn.

Carole Freeman:
So, those of you out there out in the world that are eating Doritos, I challenge you right now. Eat it slow and mindfully. I used to do this exercise as a group with my clients. If you sit with full awareness and notice everything around you, and you put that Dorito in your mouth and you bite down slowly and you chew slowly, and you notice how it tastes in your mouth and you notice the texture, it tastes horrible. It doesn’t taste good at all. It tastes like cardboard. The chip quality is the worst quality ever. The flavors don’t taste good. It tastes like cardboard in your mouth and you’re like, “Why did I think these tasted good?” It’s because they’re designed, they only taste good if you eat them fast. They do that on purpose so that you will overeat them.

Becky Robbins:
That’s why the bag says, “You can’t eat just one.”

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Oh, that’s the Lay’s one. That’s also the same thing.

Becky Robbins:
That’s different. Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. So, most junk food is meant to taste good if you eat it really, really fast but if you slow down and eat it slowly and mindfully, most of it doesn’t taste good at all in that context. So, if anybody is interested in more information about this, there’s a book out there called the Dorito Effect. We’ve all got time now to read or an audio book or something like that. Check that out. Again, any meal that you’re going to eat, I challenge you. Can you do it once in the next week? How about every meal that you do from now on? Just start out by centering yourself and noticing, bring in all five senses. This present moment, there’s no judgment. Whatever you’re eating right now, and just see. What do you notice about how it actually tastes, about how it actually makes you feel in your body? Very interesting.

Carole Freeman:
So, I look forward to hearing from all of you about doing this experiment, about what you’ve discovered about foods that you thought you really liked and let go, foods maybe you’re eating stress eating wise right now that you realize, “Wow. Actually, this is just shoving something in my face as fast as possible, and it’s not that it actually tastes good.” So, then you could be empowered then to actually make those choices of, what can you eat right now that actually tastes really good when you slow down and enjoy it? Those usually aren’t going to be junk food items. They’re going to be foods that are actually nutritious to your body. So, I challenge you. Eat foods that taste good when you eat slowly and savor every bite and morsel. All right, that’s my little bit.

Becky Robbins:
Thank you.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Typically, I ask questions. So Jack, what questions do you have for Becky? I forgot to ask that part earlier. So, do you have questions for Becky or anything about what she talked about? I think [crosstalk 00:49:08] already did.

Jack Slattery:
Oh my god. [crosstalk 00:49:08] like this.

Carole Freeman:
What’s that?

Jack Slattery:
You’re just going to throw me under the bus like this?

Carole Freeman:
Yes, yes. We’ve got to comment on what she was doing anyway. As far as art therapy.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah. So, where do you like to go hiking? How long of a hike do you do?

Becky Robbins:
That depends.

Jack Slattery:
Do you talk during the hike, or is it a silent meditation kind of thing?

Becky Robbins:
Oh, are you talking about when I go with clients?

Jack Slattery:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Becky Robbins:
Okay. So, most client sessions are a soft hour, as we call it, with a few minutes at the end for scheduling and stuff. Thinking about that and driving and all of this, it’s usually urban hikes. Anywhere from Golden Gardens, St. Edward’s Park, Discovery Park, all these different areas. They could be just walking around a park. Sometimes it includes playing on the kids’ toys, big kids’ toys. So, most of those sessions are an hour, and people can sign up for longer sessions. Then those are definitely walk and talk. There are moments of silence, but then when I do the group ones, those ones can be longer and they involve a lot more stop and pause exercises, or even mindfulness games to sharpen your skills and senses, and then we sit and process it together.

Becky Robbins:
I did a sound bath once where I dropped individual people in different spaces. You sit over here, we go six feet away. Necessary not six feet, that’s today. Go 20 feet away, put the other person over there, and so however many in the group, we’re all a good distance away. Then sit and have this sound bath, listening to what we hear around us and noting it in a journal in a specific way. Then coming back after 15, 20 minutes is a good amount of time, and then just collect ourselves, have a little snack if we need it, and then talk about what we experienced. Then finish the hike and go back with our day. So, that’s a very rough sketch of how that might look. Those hikes could be a little further out. Might involve carpooling, but those are usually more group. They’re not therapy groups or the clients that I regularly have. Those would be your everyday people who want self growth and they want to experience more mindfulness and hiking. So, that’s how that goes.

Carole Freeman:
You could totally still do the hikes virtually, right? So, somebody goes on a walk someplace, you go on a walk, and then you just talk to each other on [crosstalk 00:52:05].

Becky Robbins:
You could. Yeah, and in this day and age of the virus I would say yes, I would do that, but typically it’s phone/device free. If somebody internationally wanted to go do this hike thing, we could totally do that for sure.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. So, you could be COVID compliant and still do hike therapy with people.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah, exactly.

Carole Freeman:
Right now, yeah.

Becky Robbins:
Right now. Sign up.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Becky, do you have questions for Jack?

Becky Robbins:
Yes, I do have questions for Jack. So Jack, I was listening to you talk about how you usually do one a day, but two is optimal. When you’ve had your two day meditations, 20 minutes twice a day, have you noticed a significant difference, or a little difference? Have you ever had a really long streak of twice a day?

Jack Slattery:
I have. When I first started, I was very diligent about twice a day. I was still in college, I had time, especially in the summers. It was much easier. I think it’s an accumulative kind of thing. I don’t think if you start out doing one a day, and then you build up to two, I don’t know if you’ll notice a significant change right away, but I think if you stay on that path it will become more noticeable.

Becky Robbins:
Over time.

Jack Slattery:
I think over time.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah.

Jack Slattery:
It just develops, it just compounds on itself. The one you did earlier is warming up for your next one in a way. It’s like doing a stretch for your next one.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah, like toning.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah, just like toning. Yeah, exactly. So, I think it’s just, like I said before, ultimately just a practice thing like anything else. The more you do it, the better you’re going to be at it.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah. Repatterning.

Jack Slattery:
Which is a really weird way to talk about it, being better at it, which implies you can be bad at it.

Becky Robbins:
Right, yeah.

Jack Slattery:
Just improving yourself. Pushing yourself to not push yourself.

Becky Robbins:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), I know exactly what you mean. Those who are learning this will eventually be like, “Oh, that’s what they were talking about.” Thanks [crosstalk 00:54:40].

Carole Freeman:
This is so-

Becky Robbins:
I have a question for you.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, yes. Okay.

Becky Robbins:
So, it sounded to me like you were using mindfulness for mindful eating and ketogenic state of mind interchangeably, and I don’t know anything about keto anything, which is newbie. So, [crosstalk 00:54:58] what is a ketogenic state?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. So, a ketogenic state. When we keep our carbohydrate intake low, that goes in our mouth, it forces our body into this ketogenic state. Ketosis is a state where there’s ketones present in the blood, which is a medical term, and the way that we get there is that we restrict the amount of carbohydrates we’re eating. So, our body has this backup plan. In nature, we’re not prevalent. Our body basically turns over to fat as its primary fuel source, and as a byproduct of using fat as a primary fuel, your body also makes these other molecules called ketones. It can use those as fuel as well. So in the absence of carbohydrates, then our body can also use ketones as fuel. So, the brain actually really loves ketones as fuel. It makes this nice, even state high alertness that people experience.

Carole Freeman:
Now, our bodies are really designed, way back when we didn’t have an abundance of high sugar garbage food, our bodies are designed to have metabolic flexibility. That means that whatever we ate, our body could burn whether it was fat or carbs, and in the absence of food we could turn to our body’s fat storage and use that for fuel. So, that’s metabolic flexibility. That’s the way the human body was designed to operate. Unfortunately over time where we’ve shifted, it’s a combination of things. We were told that fat was really bad for us to eat, that we should instead eat tons of carbohydrates. Then the food manufacturers responded by making a bunch of high carbohydrate refined foods. We’ve switched from the ability to have metabolic flexibility that whatever we ate, and there are some people in the world that still have this. It’s the minority of people out there unfortunately. People that are very active still or just genetically an anomaly. Maybe less than 5% of the population I think are like that, but they’ve never been overweight.

Becky Robbins:
That would be me. Sorry.

Carole Freeman:
They’re the people [crosstalk 00:57:09], “Oh man, they could just eat whatever.”

Becky Robbins:
That’s why I don’t know.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, so you’re a genetic anomaly.

Becky Robbins:
Well.

Carole Freeman:
Because back in the day when you needed to be able to store fat in order to survive the famine, your type would not have made it.

Becky Robbins:
Nope.

Carole Freeman:
Now we look at you and we’re like, “Oh, you’re so lucky. How is it that you can’t gain weight?” So, that’s why the majority of the population is in this place of we’re all overweight. Why? Why do I have such weak [crosstalk 00:57:40]?

Becky Robbins:
Why?

Carole Freeman:
Our bodies are designed, so it’s a genetic mismatch right now or an evolutionary mismatch. The way that our food supply is, is really good at making us fat for the predominant people.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah, or feel crappy for the un-predominant people.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. So, we’ve moved in this state of primarily eating carbohydrates and so if you mostly eat carbohydrates all of the time, your body is basically like, “Well, we don’t need to make all of this stuff in order to get the fat [crosstalk 00:58:11] and burn that. We never burn that. So, let’s just stop making all of that machinery. Let’s change the cell structure so that we don’t have it, be able to get the fat out of storage, and let’s just shove all that in the furnace and keep gaining weight.”

Becky Robbins:
Got it.

Carole Freeman:
So over time, your body shuts off all of the ability to even use fat for fuel. So it basically makes it so you’re dependent on constantly having carbohydrates, and our body doesn’t have a storage of carbohydrates. So if we’re running primarily on that, you have to constantly be eating those. You have to eat six, or seven, or eight times a day and constantly fuel. So, that’s why people typically, and they get beat up because they’re constantly hungry. They’ve got to eat all the time. They’re really low energy. They’re lethargic. They want to sit around and not do much. They don’t have the energy to exercise.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah and so for people like that, that they don’t have metabolic flexibility, they’re stuck in carb burning mode, we have to shift. It’s a very dramatic shift of restricting carbohydrates. So basically, we shut off that fuel source. We’re like, “Body, you need to adapt. We need you to get back to knowing how to burn fat again.”

Becky Robbins:
Do it.

Carole Freeman:
The only way to do that, it’s like a drug detox. So, if you keep carbs coming in your body doesn’t ever shift back to learning how to use fat. So, we have to shut that off and unfortunately, what’s happened with people is it can take 18 to 24 months, or even longer, for the body to get really good and have that flexibility. Some people are never really able to gain, in fact most people, aren’t able to gain that metabolic flexibility back that they could occasionally have high carbs and then switch back into burning fat.

Becky Robbins:
It’s good to know and to have that expectation and understanding.

Carole Freeman:
Also, there’s the brain chemistry part of it as well. So, that’s also another complicated factor for things as well, so people have built up the brain chemistry and addiction to food that it wouldn’t matter if their body is metabolically flexible and can burn carbs or fat. If they’re addicted and as soon as they start to have carbs again they can’t stop eating them, that’s a whole other issue too. So, I address both of those. Yeah, so that-

Becky Robbins:
Thanks.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, so that’s what ketosis is, and typically when people are in that state, when their body is primarily burning fat for fuel and they’ve got these ketones, they have got a steady energy state throughout the day, they have a very low appetite. They’re not obsessed with food, they don’t really have any cravings, and all of that. So a lot of people, actually everybody who’s ever been in ketosis says, “Oh my gosh. I just feel so much better in this state because of the mental clarity and energy,” but it’s not always necessarily an ideal state for everyone to be in all of the time, right? So, somebody who’s very lean, because it’s an appetite suppressant, it’s not a good idea for them necessarily to follow it because they don’t need to lose anymore fat on their body. That can be actually detrimental to health to have not enough fat on their body. Is that more than you ever wanted to know about it for now?

Becky Robbins:
Thank you. No, that’s great. I want to know all the more things. Another time. Thank you.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, yes. There’s so much more out there. Well Jack, do you have any questions for me? You don’t have to.

Jack Slattery:
Are you going to book me once you get the shows get going again?

Carole Freeman:
Yes, yeah. [crosstalk 01:01:46] I had a wild idea today about how we might actually might be able to do online shows in this platform, if we have enough guests on here with good people that [inaudible 01:01:57].

Becky Robbins:
That sounds fun.

Carole Freeman:
Derek and I are going to work on that.

Jack Slattery:
Okay.

Carole Freeman:
So, yeah. Yeah.

Becky Robbins:
Budding comedian over here.

Carole Freeman:
You?

Becky Robbins:
Yes [crosstalk 01:02:08], me.

Carole Freeman:
This is weird because it’s backwards so I can’t even point to you.

Becky Robbins:
Right, yes. [crosstalk 01:02:14] I started improv and now I’m in love with it.

Carole Freeman:
There we go, there we go. I had to point the opposite way. Oh, well yeah. When comedy comes back to life, we’ll have to get you back out on the open mic stage then, yeah.

Becky Robbins:
Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Becky Robbins:
Cool.

Carole Freeman:
Okay. Let’s wrap this up. Thank you all for being here. We do one last round, and I call it the lightning bolt round. This is actually how I close out my coaching calls too. So, each of us take a turn and share your aha, your takeaway, or whatever you want to say to wrap this up. Also, be sure to mention how people can contact you for your services or follow you on social media, or whatever that way too.

Becky Robbins:
Do you want to go in a little circle?

Carole Freeman:
You’re going first now, so.

Becky Robbins:
All right, okay. So again, my name is Becky Robbins. My business is Inner Phoenix Embodied Arts, and what I learned today is gosh, I really liked what you just said about the ketones and such. So, I’m going to explore that a little more and how that impacts me, and then from Jack, I want to check out your comedy as well as dip my toe into TM, transcendental meditation, a little bit. See if I can make it to 20 minutes with my ADD. So, how you can contact me if you would like to go on one of those group hikes for mindfulness, of you’re interested in being a therapy client, you can contact me at my website, which is HTTP:-

Carole Freeman:
Oh, [crosstalk 01:04:03].

Becky Robbins:
Okay. You don’t have to do that, but there’s no WW, so don’t do that. It’s InnerPhoenix.Wordpress.com, and my email address, a little bit different, is Becky@InnerPhoenix.net. There’s a story behind that, and then you can also find me, I have a Facebook page which is Inner Phoenix Embodied Arts, and I post some of the videos for the hikes and stuff there. So, thank you both and onto you, Jack.

Carole Freeman:
Cool, thank you.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah. Aha moment for me was learning about the hikes that you do, the group hikes. That sounds really cool, it seems really fun. I have to check that out. You can follow me on Instagram at JackSlatteryComedy, the spelling of the name is right down at the lower screen.

Carole Freeman:
That’s good.

Jack Slattery:
Yeah. This was a lot of fun, thank you. Carole, I had something but I’m blanking. I talked about me for a second. I was supposed to talk about you.

Carole Freeman:
No, no. No, you’re supposed to talk about you right now. Yeah.

Jack Slattery:
Okay.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, no. You did great. Yeah, thank you so much for being here. My takeaway, my aha, I love the therapy that you’re doing. The fact that you can hike therapy. I’ve never heard of that. It’s amazing. It’s so great, I love it.

Becky Robbins:
Hike it out.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. I thought this earlier, I didn’t say it, but I bet you’re just so happy in alignment with your true self right now compared to what you were doing before.

Becky Robbins:
Oh yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, yeah. That’s great. Thank you everyone for watching. The biggest compliment you could give is to invite other people to watch, to like the page, and come back. So, I’m doing this every single night, 7:00 PM Pacific. Yeah, this is going to be posted because in recording, we had some tech issues. Sorry about that. I don’t know what happened.

Becky Robbins:
It happens.

Carole Freeman:
I have no control over it, so I’m just going to me mindful in the moment. That’s what we did. We just did the best that we could in this moment, and let go of everything we can’t control, but thank you all for being here. We’re coming back, lots more good stuff coming up, so thanks for watching. We’ll see you all soon. Bye.

Becky Robbins:
Bye.

Keto Chat 121: Shifting from Fear to Optimism

Guest 1: Sarah Thorpe

Sarah Thorpe brings over 30 years of personal and professional development. As a healer, mentor, teacher, priestess, psychic and minister she supports women entrepreneur healers and coaches, She helps them to access their spiritual connection, reprogram their energy, and double their revenue with ease. Without working harder or getting another qualification. When fear comes to call it makes it almost impossible to access our executive functioning of the brain and find hope and be rational. Through mindful practices and asking empowering questions, you can get back to a place of hope and optimism. Link to YouTube meditation: https://youtu.be/NCRQQDJn_Xg

Guest 2: Jim Webber

Jim Webber is a Human Resources and harassment prevention trainer and public speaker by day and a stand up comic at night. His professional alter ego, Evil Skippy, has been promoting social distance at work since 2009. He produces and hosts “Late Laughs” every third Saturday at the Palace in Georgetown, Seattle.

Find Jim online with the links below:

www.evilskippyatwork.com

www.jimwebber.net

Insta: EvilSkippyatWork and JimWebberLOL

Twitter: @EvilSkippySays and @JimWebberLOL

Guest 3: Jim Kellner

Jim Kellner overcame severe stage fright, introversion, and being ‘painfully shy’ to become recognized as a dynamic and charismatic entertainer and speaker. Combing his love of helping people and performing Jim added trainings and public speaking to his resume. He’s been recognized as an expert in his field by being invited to speak at Grand Canyon University’s 2018 TEDx event, Magnum Opus. His TEDx talk, ‘If You Can’t Be Hypnotized, You Lose’ has received acclaim from fellow hypnotists and laypersons as well. He is one of only a handful of Hypnotists/Hypnotherapists to have ever spoken on a TED or TEDx stage. Jim has several talks and trainings in his repertoire and is available for keynote speeches as well. With his work as an author of plays, comedy routines, articles, and his book, ‘Navigating Success’, he can create custom talks and trainings, especially for your organization. He studied acting in college then transitioned to stand-up comedy and toured the Pacific Northwest as a featured act. THEN after using hypnosis to take off over 60 lbs, ease his depression, and remake his life, he decided to pursue another passion he’d had since a child, professional hypnotherapist and comedy stage hypnotist. He has since then helped thousands of people lose weight, quit smoking, sleep better, relax deeper, and much more and has hypnotized thousands of people on stage. He currently travels the US and routinely headlines the Northwest’s top comedy clubs.

Find Jim online with the links below:

JimKellnerHypnotist.com

Facebook.com/MentalMagicHypnosis

IG KellnerJim

—————————————————————————————————————————————————

Carole Freeman:
Hey, welcome everyone to our episode of Keto Chat. I have laryngitis, so everyone’s going to have a good laugh at how I sound today. My name is Carole Freeman. I am a Keto nutritionist. I’m a board certified ketogenetic nutrition specialist. I specialize in helping people be able to follow a ketogenic diet for lasting weight loss for a lifetime of lifestyle. And I’m here today. We’re launching our brand new version of our live Keto Chat show. We had a little bit of tech issues today, so we’re going to do a recorded version today. And my whole goal, I know it sounds really funny, doesn’t it? Am I a robot voice? Feel free to make fun of my voice. I don’t know what’s going on, but it’s not your-

Jim Webber:
Oh, we will. We will.

Carole Freeman:
It’s not you, it’s me. Whole goal here is to bring you experts in a variety of fields to bring you happiness and joy on a variety of topics so that we can offset all the anxiety and anguish and everything that’s going on in the world right now. And so tonight’s topic is how to shift from fear to optimism. We’ve got three amazing people here. I’m so excited. Let me just give you a little bit of an overview of who we got. We have Sarah Thorpe, she brings 30 years of personal and professional development. You know what, actually I’m going to do this. And so normally I would introduce you guys, but my voice is so froggy. I’m going to say each of their names and I’m, I’ll let them introduce themselves. So Sarah Thorpe, please tell us who you are.

Sarah Thorpe:
Yeah. Hi. Thanks. I’m Sarah, and like Carol said, I’ve got 30 years of professional and personal development and experience I bring to… I’m an intuitive coach and healer and I bring that to the table in working with women entrepreneurs.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. I’m so glad you’re here. And then up next we have Jim Kellner. I’ll let you tell your bio, too.

Jim Kellner:
I’m Jim Kellner. I’m a comedy stage hypnotist and a hypnotherapist and aspiring fitness model. [inaudible 00:02:14] Freddy. I actually help people to do what they want to do with hypnotherapy. So whatever your goals are, hypnosis just makes it easier. And then the comedy hypnosis, I know a lot of people don’t understand what that is. Basically, tell a few jokes, hypnotize some audience members and make them do funny stuff. That’s about it.

Carole Freeman:
[inaudible] and also we have another Jim, Jim Weber.

Jim Webber:
Hi, I’m the not pretty Jim. I’m the other Jim. I am not a professional wellness person, or anything like that, but I have personal experience in dealing with depression, I have personal experience in dealing with stress, because I raised two women who were teenagers for a while, so I lived through that. I’m a harassment trainer, and a stress intervener by day, and a standup comic by night. So I’ve got all sorts of advice for how to stay sane.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. Excellent. Thank you all for being here. And I’m just going to turn this over, first to Sarah. Sarah, share with us. What is it that you have for us today and the message on how to shift from fear to optimism?

Sarah Thorpe:
Okay. So I know that it’s a really shitty, shitty time, and we’re not saying that we’re going to just have some Lala lovely, we’ll just put you to bed and make you have sweet dreams. However, I do believe that it is in our own power to change our minds, to empower ourselves to feel more optimistic, more hopeful, and less stressed. And I ran a Zoom call this morning for some people, and I had come up with a template to ask questions, and so maybe I could just post some of these questions and then people can reflect on those, and give them a sense of what they have to work with. Their strengths and the resources that they have. And when we’re in fear, we often don’t think properly because our brain isn’t functioning. We don’t have access to the executive functioning part of the brain. Would that be okay if I ask some questions?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. I think that’s great.

Sarah Thorpe:
Okay. So I know that people are resourceful and brilliant, and that we will all emerge from this stronger than ever. And so initially, are we committing to thriving, or are we committing to being a victim in our mindset? And I know that we’re… I was down on the floor crying this afternoon. I felt shitty, but I’m committed to thriving. So if you know that you can just declare that, then that goes a long way as you put your stake in the ground that you are going to get through this.

Sarah Thorpe:
So the first question is, what strengths do you have that you can rely on yourself for during the pandemic? So when people think about their own strengths, it helps them access the part of themselves that’s strong and capable. So if you have strengths that you can rely on yourself for, what would those be? Might be within your home, within your relationships, work, take note of those. And then, during this pandemic, what do you notice are your weaknesses that are coming to light? So sometimes we may have default patterns that are getting highlighted that you might consider that a weakness. What are the weaknesses that are being highlighted?

Sarah Thorpe:
And then how will it impact you and your life or your business if you don’t address these weaknesses? So, it’s okay to have weaknesses, and to be a puddle on the floor and to crumble, but we can’t stay there. So if we stay there, if we stay in our weaknesses, how will it impact our lives and our business? And then the next question is how long are you willing to wait before addressing the weaknesses? So I’m really calling people to find their own inner leader and make the choice to take the next step. And then the next step. And if you can consider what resources do you have to support you at this time? What resources do you have to support you in your health, in your money, and in your relationships?

Sarah Thorpe:
And what opportunities is this Covid 19 bringing? What opportunities are you seeing arising as a result of this pandemic? I’m not saying it’s a good thing, I’m just saying, is there anything that is an opportunity that you can see that you can do differently? And what skills would you need to build to move through this time gracefully? So that’s a whole bunch of questions, but it’s just designed to help you kind of calm down and find some tangible things that you can do. And if you can’t do them, find some help and support to get to the next level.

Carole Freeman:
I think that sounds really great, and you know, a lot of people are feeling frustrated because they don’t have a lot of power right now. They feel like they don’t have any control, but what you’re leading people through there is realizing you do have control of many things and tapping into what you do have control over and looking for the opportunities. So for example, being stuck at home for a long time, you can do a lot of things that you’ve put off for a long time. Right?

Sarah Thorpe:
Yeah. That could be an opportunity. One of my friends is a coach and she has young children and she was doing Facebook live yesterday. It cracked me up, but she was so mad. For a lot of women and men when they’re trying to take care of children, and run business from home, and do the home schooling that they’re supposed to be doing, it’s just super, super stressful. And she talked about, this is not the time for perfection porn. When you have pictures of your beautiful family, or your lovely lunch on your table, or your perfect garden, or the lovely yoga pose.

Sarah Thorpe:
It’s like, no, it triggers people’s shame, when we’re like, “Well, I don’t have my shit together like that.” And then we think there’s something wrong with us. So this is the time for us to be truly truthful and authentic. We do not have our shit together all the time. Maybe, if you have your shit together for five minutes during the day, then that might be fine. That’s fine. Maybe it’ll be six minutes tomorrow, but just really take good, good, good care, and find the strengths that you have and the resources that you have.

Carole Freeman:
Well based on how much toilet paper people have been buying, I’m sure they were expecting to have a lot of shit together.

Sarah Thorpe:
I know it’s crazy. And yesterday I found myself trying to think, maybe I should be calculating the number of toilet paper squares we have, and the number of butts that it has to wipe, and how long it will take to run out, and then should I be… My mind went completely to that crazy place.

Carole Freeman:
So basically, you know you have three years worth. You’re going to be fine. Right? Sarah, anything else that you want to add on this topic?

Sarah Thorpe:
Well, I’m a big proponent of creating a ritual space, meditation space. And I know that sometimes can sound like, yeah, just meditate. People are like FU if you meditate, but I’m not saying it’s going to cure everything, but I’m saying if you create a space that is quiet, that you can sit in some silence and be with yourself the beginning of the day or the end of the day, it will help to calm your body. It will help. And there’re loads of YouTube videos on meditation. You can just look one up. I made a new one yesterday and I posted it on my YouTube page, but there’s tons of them and if you just lay down at night listening to a meditation, it will help you sleep better, and we want people to be sleeping better so they’re not super stressed by lack of sleep during the day.

Carole Freeman:
Well we’ll have to put a link to that, available to people.

Sarah Thorpe:
Sure.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, we’ll share that out.

Sarah Thorpe:
Thanks.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you so much for what you’ve shared. Well hang out to the end. I don’t know, I posted in our group if people have any questions. I don’t know that we’ll have any questions coming through since we’re not actually live today, but thank you so much for what you’ve shared and we’ll we’ll take a moment at the end to wrap this all up.

Sarah Thorpe:
Sure.

Carole Freeman:
All right, up next we have the world renowned aspiring fitness model, a TEDx talk talker? I don’t know what you call it. TEDx deliverer. A very dear friend of mine, Jim Kellner.

Jim Kellner:
Thanks everybody. Thanks for having me on Carol. And it was great listening to Sarah. I got to tell you folks, I do not have my shit together. As you can see [inaudible 00:13:00]. The sink is full of dishes. I’ve been going crazy, because I’m pivoting. We’re pivoting right now. We’re not panicking, we’re pivoting. And so I’ve pivoted to the online sphere, which is something that I wanted to do for a while anyway, so, fantastic.

Jim Kellner:
So I wanted to share three really powerful things that I think can help you all make a… Kind of come out of this in a different way. You know, it’s funny, because a lot of times I will have people tell me, and Carol, you’ve done hypnosis before. You’ve probably heard this before as well. I don’t want to go to a hypnotist, because I don’t want somebody controlling my thoughts. Here’s a crazy thing, people, you’re not in control of your thoughts, because the reason I know that is because you told me you don’t want [inaudible 00:13:49], but you still, or you don’t want to eat chocolate cake anymore, but you’re still eating chocolate cake. [inaudible 00:13:54] the corona virus, so you’re not in control of your thoughts, but I’d like to invite you to start directing your thoughts a little more.

Jim Kellner:
One of the problems with trying to direct our thoughts, because we get into habits. We go down these roads where we want to… It doesn’t feel good, but it feels comfortable. I was watching the news a lot for the last few days. All of a sudden I was like, “Why am I watching the news?” I’ll get the updates, but if you’re watching the news all the time, you’re going down that road all the time. Constantly going down that road. It’s the same thing. I don’t know about you Carol, I have friends that have diabetes and they’re constantly posting pictures of things like cake on their Facebook page.

Jim Kellner:
People, you’re directing your thoughts, you’re in control of that. And so what I would say is avoid all that garbage. So just start avoiding it, and you got to think about other things. And so what I invite you to do after this. Put it in writing. Tick off three of the things you’d like to think about. Think about that vacation you’re going to take when you are finally able to do vacations, or whatever, and start really focusing on directing them and just refuse to allow yourself to continue going down that direction. And I know, look, I was sulking the other day. 90% of my income for the next month evaporated. Just like this, just canceled all these events. And then I started thinking, it’s kind of a cool thing right now, because all in together everybody, I was thinking about, if you think about World War II, think about World War I, you think about the great depression, you hear stories about how everybody came together and helped each other. And we just have this unprecedented opportunity, and let’s face it, we’ve got Netflix. So we’re super lucky, and so I think just focusing on the gratitude.

Jim Kellner:
Now the other thing that I wanted to share with you, and this is something I came up with with a client one time. She was telling me about some stuff that was going on at an office, and she was frustrated, she was stressed all the time. And I started, it was hard for me not to laugh, because it sounded so ridiculous. It was absurd. And it got me on this idea. I said, “What if you started thinking about this, this stuff that’s going on at work, like you’re on an episode of Seinfeld.” And really, if you start thinking about instead of, because here’s the thing, [inaudible 00:16:33] a really good imagination is they can, they can make any situations scary, terrible, horrible. They can blow it up in bright colors. I’ll give you all kinds of details, but what you can do is you can use that at the office. So try to think of yourself like if you were in a Simon Pegg movie, one of those apocalyptic movies that him and his buddy have done, or think about, if you were in, you know what I mean?

Jim Kellner:
Because people, seriously, people are fighting over toilet paper. That is hilarious. It’s sad and troubling, but it’s freaking hilarious. We should be laughing about this. This is unbelievable, and people are dying of course. And that’s no fun, but you know, more bacon for the rest of us. I’m sorry, that wasn’t nice, but there really is just a great opportunity now. I’ve watched six movies in the last five days. I never get to watch movies. And, like what Sarah was saying, kind of reframing the situation, trying to just… And again, we’re not saying this is a good situation. Believe me, I’m not excited about it. But if you can just find one or two things, in every situation, really, you’ll find something good, and the way you can find that good is you go, “Wow, this is really terrible, but the good thing is,” and follow that up with something. The good thing is I got to watch six movies. Only two of them were good, but I got to watch six movies. So anyway, that’s what I have for you today for everybody. Thanks for having me on, Carol. I appreciate that. It’s always good to talk to you.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, thank you for the tips that you have. The good thing about having laryngitis is that I get to let you guys talk more. Normally, I talk a lot. So this is an opportunity for me to be quiet and listen and to let you all talk more. So thank you so much.

Jim Kellner:
I think it’s weird to just pontificate without any dialogue, but oh well.

Carole Freeman:
And I normally would have lots of questions, too, so along those lines for me, I had a pity party as well at the beginning, because I’m an extrovert. I need to be out among people. I also have a high need for touch. Before this self quarantine, staying at home, I would spend six or eight hours out every night doing standup comedy, and I got to hug everybody that I was with, and talk to them. That fills personal need that I have for my mental health. And so I had a pity party the first few days of poor me, poor me. How am I going to get my needs met? And you know, realizing flattening the curve, and for the best good for all, I embraced it. I’m at home with my two cats. I don’t have anybody that I live with and cat touch is not the same as human touch.

Carole Freeman:
But I took this opportunity. I’m going to be able to follow up with a lot of things in my own company that I’ve wanted to do, that I’ve been putting on the back burner for a long time. And also get the opportunity then to serve, put out these videos every day. So these episodes of being able to bring. So never before have we had so much talent at our fingertips, because everyone’s at home, and nobody has any bookings or obligations. They can’t leave. And so I have a wealth of talent available to be able to bring to all of you that are watching this now. And to be able to share that service to everyone out there, and try to bring hope, and positivity, and happiness to everyone that’s out there is the good that I’m seeing in all this. And my voice is trying to keep me from doing that, but I’m not going to stop yet. So thank you so much for sharing that. And now, now we’re going to go to the other Jim. The not fitness model, or the not aspiring fitness.

Jim Webber:
OJ.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. And so-

Jim Webber:
OJ, the other Jim.

Carole Freeman:
… Somebody that I’ve met through comedy, a very dear friend of mine, and with my comedy community, I wanted to be able to bring on most of these episodes as well. Somebody from that community to be able to bring some humor and lightness and happiness to all of us as well. So, hey, Jim, welcome.

Jim Webber:
Hi. Hi. Well as a 62 year old member of your community, thank you for flattening the curve and all that kind of, I appreciate that. You know, everything that hypnotist Jim, pretty Jim said. Damn, he’s pretty, and Sophie. Those were all things that I embrace myself for dealing, just in real life, with depression and stress and things like that. And sometimes I simplify it as just remembering to breathe. When I start feeling overwhelmed, this is literally what I will do. I will stop and say, “All right, take a deep breath. Let it out. Do it again. You’re going to be okay.” I’ve done that before I walk on to do a set sometimes if I’m feeling nervous, or things are bad.

Jim Webber:
But for the purposes of the day, when I looked at the promo for the show and it said talking about being optimistic in a stressful time, I thought, “Carol, you picked the wrong second Jim here, because optimistic. Maybe I can be optimistic for 15 minutes of time, five times a day, maybe a minute. Dawned on me. That’s the lesson. And that’s pretty good, because we can’t, there’s no way, these days, we’re going to be able to be optimistic all the time. Sometimes it’s going to get hard and it depends on what happens to us. I found out late last night that my oldest daughter tested negative, not having it. She’s gotten tested because she had symptoms and she’s highly, highly risk because of past physical problems, and man, what an emotional roller coaster. But then thinking, well, this is just the first time, and we’re going to have a lot of roller coasters. So I have a tiny tip, all the things that Sophie talked about, and Jim, but this is my tiny tip that I had started doing-

Carole Freeman:
Sarah. It’s Sarah.

Jim Webber:
Sarah. Am I saying Sophie? You know, it starts with an S and I am name dysfunctional, and I embrace it. Sarah. Why am I saying Sophie? You know, probably some Netflix thing watch, I don’t know, but it was a compliment. It’s in my mind, it’s a good thing. Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. Okay, now I’m going to jump out the window of my apartment, but it’s not because of the pandemic, it’s because I’m embarrassed. Back to my tiny, tiny tip. Based on what Sarah said and, and damn he’s pretty, Jim.

Jim Webber:
I started doing this as a creativity trigger exactly 300 days ago, because today was my 300th day in the streak, and it came out of a book called The Artist’s Way. And Carole, I’ve talked to you about this before, but it’s called the morning papers. And I thought, this sounds like such a stupid idea. And the author said, “No, first thing you do in the morning, literally first thing is you sit down and you just stream of conscious write three pages. And so I started doing it religiously, and at first it was kind of a chore and a lot of my stream of consciousness said, “I cannot think of anything to write right now. Pause, pause, pause. I want to go to the bathroom.” I mean, nothing meaningful, but things would start slipping out, and as I got used to doing it, one thing I found is I like getting out of bed, because I look forward to doing it and I can’t have my coffee until after I’ve done it. So there’s that.

Jim Webber:
But I found that sometimes I’ll be writing stuff and then out of the blue, something I wasn’t thinking about. There’d be a thought I didn’t remember I thought before. And it will open things up to me, not just about being creative, but about things in my life. Things dealing with an ex, or love, or just whatever it is. And so it’s working now too, during the stress of now. I found when I’m writing it, and I realized this morning as I was writing, that’s my tip for this thing. Even if you hate journaling. Don’t call it journaling. You’re not journaling. It’s not a diary, you’re just talking to yourself.

Jim Webber:
And sometimes when we get stressed out we’ll think we’re talking to ourselves in the right way. We’ll think we know what the problem is, but there’s something about it that it’s there somewhere but it’s not where we can access it. And I think the morning papers have helped me do that, and it sometimes helps me come up with some good jokes too, but it’s self therapy, and as a way of somebody who’s dealt with depression in the past and whatnot, I’m alert to the signals of that. And being able to be honest with yourself is really important, and that is one thing that you can do. So speaking of therapy, crafts are important. I did this cross-stitch awhile back. So it says welcome to group therapy. So, I don’t endorse heavy drinking at this time, but do what makes you happy. Whatever sparks joy. So that’s what I say.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, thank you so much. I love that.

Jim Webber:
I didn’t see a red light. Was I okay?

Carole Freeman:
That’s the comedy thing. I wasn’t timing anyone today, so we have more freedom of mic, since we don’t have any hecklers here to ask questions of us.

Jim Webber:
Ahhh.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s wonderful. Thank you so much. All right, well ideally when this was going to be live, we were going to have people asking us live questions. I did post to see if anybody… Let’s see if there’re any comments that have come in.

Jim Webber:
Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. Sarah.

Carole Freeman:
Let’s see.

Jim Webber:
I’m so embarrassed.

Carole Freeman:
Well I debated whether I should just let you keep calling her Sophie, or it’s like, do you tell them there’s a booger in their nose or not? And they probably would feel more embarrassed to know that that was there the whole time.

Jim Webber:
Yeah, I could tell you were flinching and I didn’t know why.

Carole Freeman:
Well, I was like, wait, is he talking about somebody else? Is this in a book that he’s talking about. All right. Why can’t I find the event? Let’s see. This one. All right. Today. Anybody comment? Discussion. There we go. I mean, find my own comment. All right. I don’t see any. I don’t see any there, so, all right, well let’s wrap this up. When I do my… I love that…. I just want to say that Jim’s dog reminds me of… The hairdo reminds me of the other Jim. I don’t know. That’s terrible, isn’t it?

Jim Webber:
What?

Carole Freeman:
Your hair is way better, Jim. Never mind.

Jim Webber:
I think I’m being triggered.

Carole Freeman:
Find the positive. All right, well let’s wrap this up. When I do coaching with my own clients, we do group meetings, and I call it the lightning bolt round. So lightning bolt is share your aha, your takeaway, or something that you just want to say as the last thing you want to say to the group here, or to everyone who’s watching

Jim Webber:
Who’s first?

Carole Freeman:
It’s popcorn style. So whoever wants to go, although, in my Keto coaching we don’t call it popcorn style, because that could be a trigger food. So we call it lightning bolt. So it’s whoever would like to go first.

Jim Webber:
Oh, okay. Well I’m going to just go then. My aha is listening to Sarah, even professionals have meltdowns. And so the fact that I cried at Safeway and bought three boxes of Oreos is okay. So my take away is it’s okay not to be okay sometimes.

Sarah Thorpe:
Yeah. I think you just gave me my takeaway. That’s the lasting message that I want to take for myself and for anyone else’s, is that it’s okay to not be okay. It’s truly okay not to be okay. And we shouldn’t be pretending that we’re okay when we’re not okay these days.

Jim Webber:
That’s okay.

Jim Kellner:
Yeah, I will steal that one too. I like to tell myself, you don’t have to be perfect yet, so I can still strive, but I’m not there yet.

Carole Freeman:
You can be pretty and not perfect.

Jim Kellner:
It’s true. Yeah. And what stands out to me then is Jim’s realization that you can have moments of positivity and shifting into optimism. It doesn’t have to mean that you have to spend your entire day trying to be optimistic and positive the whole time. Yeah.

Sarah Thorpe:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Jim Webber:
You have to relax. Yeah. Breathe. Meditate. Have a cookie.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. You guys are all amazing. Thanks for sticking with it for the tech issues. Thanks for being here. Thanks for sharing.

Jim Webber:
Oh, thank you, Carol, for doing it.

Carole Freeman:
You’re welcome.

Sarah Thorpe:
No, thank you. You’re amazing, too.

Jim Kellner:
Thanks Carole.

Carole Freeman:
You’re welcome. Thanks everyone for watching. Please send in your comments and questions and we’ll figure out the tech side soon so we can do this live.

Sarah Thorpe:
Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you everyone.

Sarah Thorpe:
Thank you.

Jim Webber:
Thanks guys.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you. Bye.

Keto Chat 120: Honing Skills: Using this Time to Focus on Self-Improvement

Derek Wolf works as a remote Copywriter at Seattle-based startup advertising agency Will+Way. He drafts and publishes creative social media messaging for local tech companies that have international reach. On top of copywriting, Derek is also a stand-up comedian who regularly performs with famous radio personalities and national comedians. Derek finds that comedy has allowed him to creatively express himself off stage as well, and attributes his creative copywriting ideas to his comedic cynicism.

You can follow his content on all social media platforms including:

Instagram: @Wolf.T.Derek

Facebook: Derek Wolf Comedy

Twitter: @DerekDaWolf

Website: www.DerekWolfIsntFunny.com

Kelly Trach is a business coach, podcaster + online course educator. She helps visionary women build digital business with 1:1 services and online courses.

Website: kellytrach.com

Free Quiz: kellytrach.com/genius

Tyana Kelley is a coach who helps women break the cycle of trauma in their families by putting themselves higher on their own lists. I also developed a unique assessment called the 12 Heart Prisms.

Website: www.purplehorizons.com

Class: https://facebook.com/events/s/from-surviving-to-thriving/1050455438670373/?ti=icl

Derek Wolf:
… I’m in love with, too, so it’s been really fun.

Carol Freeman:
Okay, we’re live now. Thank you, everyone, for watching here, and welcome to another episode of Keto Chat. I am your host, Carol Freeman. I am a board certified ketogenic nutrition specialist, and I am in the Epicenter here in the Seattle, Washington, area. We’re all social distancing here and bringing you something to offset all the doom and gloom and the anxiety that has been overwhelming us out there. We’re bringing you positivity, you guys.

Carol Freeman:
Tonight’s episode is going to be about how do we take this time to actually look inside and use it for a time of self-improvement, honing your skills, improving ourselves, rather than just giving up and laying on that couch over there, like my cats do all day long.

Carol Freeman:
I coach people. I’m going to start out and tell you who I am, and then I’m going to tell you about our amazing guests we have. One of the nice things about what’s going on in the world right now is that everybody is unbooked, so I have all the best talent in the entire world at my fingertips. Then, we Derek here, too, so you know… I have all this great talent, so I’m really excited to tell you who we’ve got here tonight, but let me just really quickly tell you about myself.

Carol Freeman:
Carol Freeman, and I primarily work with women, a few men once in a while, but I specialize in helping people figure out this lifelong struggle they’ve had with their weight, being able to follow a ketogenic diet as a lifelong sustainable solution where they can lose the weight, keep it off, and just move their obsession with weight and food to the back of their mind, so that is me.

Carol Freeman:
Just really briefly I’m going to tell you our guests, and then I’m going to bring each of them up. They’re going to spend about 10 to 15 minutes sharing their area of expertise with you, and leave you some exercises to help you find your zone of skill and self-improvement, and all that stuff.

Carol Freeman:
I’m going to introduce you all in the order that we’re going to go; I know I didn’t even tell you guys that. We have Tyana Kelley, and the way I learned to pronounce her name correctly is it rhymes with “Diana.” So, Tyana Kelley, welcome.

Tyana Kelley:
Thank you.

Carol Freeman:
I’m actually going to read your full bio right before I introduce you, so it will be in suspense. Then, we have Kelly Trach. We have Tyana Kelley, Kelly Trach, and Derek is out of order, so I don’t know. We should have had Track Wolf or something. Welcome, Kelly. Thank you you for being here.

Derek Wolf:
I’m always curious.

Carol Freeman:
Then, Derek will wrap up with a few… Derek Wolf is in the Seattle area as well. Thank you all for taking the time out of your busy days and lives to be here with us.

Carol Freeman:
Those of you that are watching, if you have any questions for our experts, please type them in the comments box here. I’m going to have to bring up a couple of our [inaudible 00:02:55] groups because we’re actually live on my page; and it’s a group tonight, so it’s very complicated. Hopefully, you all can see us and chat with us here.

Carol Freeman:
All right, up first it’s my privilege to bring to the stage… here I am pretending I’m in comedy again. Up first, we have Tyana Kelley, a coach who helps women break the cycle of trauma in their families by putting themselves higher on their own list. She’s developed the unique assessment system called the 12 Heart Prisms. I can’t wait to learn about this. I’m going to tell you, Tyana, so many of my clients are in that box of putting everyone first in their lives and they put themselves last, and so I’m so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for being here and welcome.

Tyana Kelley:
Thank you for having me, considering I met you on Friday through social distancing, a Zoom call. It was very fun.

Tyana Kelley:
Yes, I developed this unique assessment to help women because I used to be a doula, a birth and postpartum doula; and what I realize is that so many of us who our moms put ourselves way down on the priority list, and that extends past the first year of life when we have babies, that that just continues on and on, so I wanted to use my skills. I also got a master’s degree while I was a doula, and so I’ve taken the skills that I gained from my doula life, and getting my master’s in strategic communication to become more well-rounded to help moms beyond the first year. I’m also using my own resiliency, and overcoming trauma as a child and as an adult, so I’ve mashed everything together to create this new thing.

Carol Freeman:
Oh, I love it. I love it.

Tyana Kelley:
I’m hope everyone can see this. These are the 12 Heart Prisms. This originated from I developed my own logo, which is this heart, and then I turned each heart prism into its own thing, for a lack of better word.

Carol Freeman:
For those of you that are women right now that can totally resonate with Tyana’s putting everyone else first before you, just give us a yes in the comments here because I know this is a common one.

Tyana Kelley:
Give me an amen.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. That’s even better.

Tyana Kelley:
The 12 heart prisms, I know I flashed that up quickly and it was hard to read, so I’ll read through them. We have your: village, self-awareness, your willingness to succeed and your willingness to fail, resiliency, goals and dreams, renewal, accountability, honesty, your history, the infrastructure of your life, what does that look like, and your passions. The goal, I take women through this either as our first session in coaching, or I also offer this as a group class, and I offer those pretty much monthly, and we just spend time going through each one on a 1 to 10 scale, and you get to color in. Everybody gets their own black heart and you get to color it in, and it’s really fascinating because everybody gets to see what’s going really well in their life and where they also need to improve. The goal is never to have a completely full heart because this is not realistic, and what I’ve come to realize… is it okay if I say a bad word?

Carol Freeman:
Well, which one?

Tyana Kelley:
Well, I won’t say it.

Carol Freeman:
We’re PG-13, so you’re allowed one F-word per episode.

Tyana Kelley:
Oh, no. It’s the S-H word.

Carol Freeman:
Okay, yes. That’s fine.

Tyana Kelley:
Okay. Balance, we’re all told about balance, work-life balance: balance is bullshit, ladies. Can I get an amen?

Carol Freeman:
Yes. Here we go.

Tyana Kelley:
Because we are taught and told by society that we’re supposed to have this perfect home life, be a perfect mom, put the kids first, and do all these things, and then we’re also supposed to have a career, and then we’re made to feel like crap when we don’t achieve that.

Carol Freeman:
Don’t forget to take time for self-care.

Tyana Kelley:
Society is gaslighting us.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah.

Tyana Kelley:
So, I’m here to help you figure out where you can put yourself first, and so renewal: you notice that my prism is not self-care; it’s renewal. Because you have to constantly be filling your own cup because you can’t serve anyone else from an empty cup, you can’t fill anybody else up. Renewal comes with things like getting enough sleep, eating well, doing things that you love. For me, I love to tap dance, so fun things like that, but just taking really good care of yourself. Do you have a morning routine? Do you have a nighttime routine? It’s not all bubble baths and pedicures, and especially right now when we can’t go out and do the things that we love, and we have to find what we love at home, and how do we fill our cups when we’re feeling isolated? Or maybe we’re feeling a little trapped. Anybody feeling trapped right now in their house?

Carol Freeman:
Almost. Yeah.

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah. So, that is what I do. I would love to answer any questions or hear what anybody else has to say about their [crosstalk 00:09:27].

Carol Freeman:
I’m just going to give a shout out to John. He is our original viewer. I think he’s been here almost every night of this broadcast so far, and this is the fifth night in a row, so John thank you so much. If I could give you some kind of a star or a crown or something like that for supporter.

Derek Wolf:
A top fan.

Tyana Kelley:
Top fan.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah, top fan. Thank you, John, for being here. He’s doing his dumbbell curls. One of our episodes on Saturday was about how to stay active at this time, so he’s being active and still watching the show.

Tyana Kelley:
Nice.

Carol Freeman:
So, thank you so much, John.

Carol Freeman:
For those viewers, please share any questions you’ve got for Tyana in the comments. In the meantime, I’m actually going to challenge our other guests here to ask a question of Tyana.

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah. I would love to answer any questions.

Tyana Kelley:
Another popular thing that we’re dealing with right now, as far as the heart prisms go, is our village, and how do we connect with our village and feel that support from one another when we are isolated? Because I’m a big believer that we are not meant to do this thing called life on our own. We need to have other people supporting us, so how do we do that when we have to keep our distance from one another? If you are struggling with village right now and how to stay connected, I would really encourage you to jump on some Zoom or FaceTime. Some of these video conference tools that we have are so great. I’ve been on Zoom more in the last week than I have maybe in all of [inaudible 00:11:22] combined, I think. It’s been really awesome. Anybody else using Zoom or FaceTime, or any of those other platforms, to get through this?

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. Yesterday, I did, my girlfriend’s dad, we did a 12-way FaceTime thing, and it was really odd. It was really interesting. Until the dogs came in, and then they took over the whole thing, so that’s really about what happened.

Tyana Kelley:
I saw somebody, one of my friends over the weekend, did a Zoom engagement party for her brother. Life looks different, but life goes on, and we’re getting creative and figure out how to still connect in this time. I think, for me at least, I’m connecting with more people during this time than I normally would. Like I said, Carol and I met on Friday in a group Zoom through a mutual friend.

Carol Freeman:
It was a lunch meeting on Zoom. Yeah.

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
We’ve got six people watching right now, so I’m challenging that we need some questions from those of you that are watching. What questions do you have for Tyana right now in this time of… how do we take care of ourselves? How do we deal with this pseudo thing we’re told, life balance?

Carol Freeman:
Here’s a question, for those of you watching. What are you struggling with right now with overwhelm? What are all the things that you’re trying to balance and juggle in your life that you need more guidance on? How do you manage all that? How do you juggle everything? Share with us. Dump out your overwhelm. What is it that you’re dealing with?

Carol Freeman:
Kelly, do you have a question for Tyana?

Kelly Trach:
Yeah. First and foremost, I loved what you shared about renewal versus self-care. I thought that was a beautiful and very eloquent way of describing it.

Tyana Kelley:
Thank you.

Kelly Trach:
Because I feel like I’ve never really resonated with the word “self-care,” but I love the concept of renewal. My question for you would be around village. Because I feel like village, especially in the world of today, everything being so digital and with Instagram, it’s like we’re more connected than ever, but quite often I sometimes feel more lonely than ever. Do you have any tips on improving that village aspect of your life when you feel like you’re getting this false community from online and social media, versus in the day you feel like your cup is not really filled up because you’re not really hanging out with people in person? Do you have any tips on balancing that in today’s modern techy world?

Tyana Kelley:
Yes. My best tip is to call your girlfriends because I was in a really dark place a few years ago. I’m an extrovert so I need that social connection, so I have to make a point to make appointments with my friends and call them just like I would call them in high school.

Kelly Trach:
Yeah, I love that. It’s so true. Especially even with making an appointment, that’s such a good idea. In high school it was impromptu call where it’s like, “Oh, hey!” but now I feel like it’s not okay to just do an impromptu call. I’m always messaging my friends at, “Hey, are you free at seven o’clock tonight?” and get it in the calendar, and in high school we used to just pick up the phone and call up your best friend. But today with so much going on, especially going back to what you said about life-work balance, and just us struggling with more things than ever, you’ve got to really get that time in the calendar. Yeah, I love that tip.

Tyana Kelley:
And that’s been really key for me. I will tell people, “Schedule half an hour to an hour,” because that’s the time it takes for both of you to get the time you need to debrief and share what’s going on in your life, and get that voice connection, because this is not the same as hearing people. That’s my big tip.

Tyana Kelley:
Derek, did you have a question?

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. You brought up earlier about just keeping scheduled stuff in the morning and afternoon stuff; and as someone that does work from home multiple days a week, that is something I have an issue with just keeping up. Do you have any tips on how to motivate yourself to just continue doing that?

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah. For me it’s easy because I have eight and a half year old twins, so keeping on a schedule has been easy, but now it’s getting a little harder that they’re home. But I really like to start my day with a little meditation and just get myself grounded, but really the biggest thing for me is I have to shower first thing in the morning because that sets me up. That ensures that I’m getting dressed, and I’m not going to work in my pajamas. I’m not going to have a long coffee. I’m going to just get up and get to it, and drink my coffee while I’m working. I know a lot of people like to sit down at a notebook and do a little journaling, or a gratitude practice, things like that, but just find things that resonate with you. You can Google “morning routine” and you’ll get a million ideas for things that might resonate with you. But I would say keep it to five specific things or less before you start your work day, and just do those things, and do them consistently for 90 days, and that will create your habit.

Derek Wolf:
Great.

Kelly Trach:
I love that. I did a podcast episode earlier this week and I was saying the exact same thing. Self-care is just having that moment of just taking a shower and getting out of your pajamas, and it changes that flick in your brain to be like…

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah.

Kelly Trach:
Other days I’ll be like, “Oh, I’ll just do this now. It’s fine. I’m in my pajamas,” but when you actually have a shower and you, like what you said, have a coffee at your desk and do the work, it’s like, “Oh, I’m really working. This is real,” and you’re taking better care of yourself, so I love that.

Tyana Kelley:
Thanks.

Carol Freeman:
That’s something I’ve had to adjust recently. It used to be that I would work from home all day, I’ve been doing now for years, and I wouldn’t shower. I’d go to work in my PJs, my comfortable clothes. Because I would go out every night and do comedy, and I was going to be on stage, I would shower and do hair and make-up before that, so that was, “I’ve got to get ready by then,” but there’s no more of that. We’re not leaving.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
There’s no more comedy, we can’t do any of that, and I’ve had to shift because it’s like doing this show is one of the things that’s helped me like, “This is a hard appointment that I’ve got. I need to be presentable on camera for that,” but I was talking with a friend yesterday where she says showering is the first thing she does every morning, and I normally don’t do that because it was the last thing I would do, and I realized, “I think I need to change my routine and having that as the first thing I do, which sets the tone,” because things are so different now. If I leave the house, it’s because I’ve got to go get groceries or something, but you can do that in your slippers or whatever.

Tyana Kelley:
But should you?

Carol Freeman:
Oh, yeah.

Derek Wolf:
It’s funny.

Carol Freeman:
No, but it’s really having me reassess just for mental health, and setting the stage of, “If I don’t take it in the morning, when is the time I need to take it?” because I’m not seeing anybody that’s going to smell me. I live by myself.

Derek Wolf:
I’m in the same boat as you, Carol, for sure.

Carol Freeman:
It used to be, “No, I don’t want to smell bad when I’m going to go see these other people,” but I can fake from here up that I’ve had a shower when I really haven’t, so that’s true. Reassessing that I was like, “I need that for my mental health and just to set a routine,” so I’m now switching to, “Okay, I’m going to take a shower first thing in the morning,” even though it was something I did later because there’s not going to be any reason to do it, so making it a part of my morning routine is what I’m switching up to.

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah. It’s good that you’re making that connection, though. Because for some people, they’re probably not making that connection yet because this is still all really new this whole being at home all the time, and what is the change to the routine. The earlier that you can make that assessment and adjust your routine to match your new reality, it will make all of this feel more normal and more doable, and make you more successful when you come out the other side, and that’s the whole resiliency piece, right? We don’t want people falling into depression and anxiety about all of this. We want that resiliency muscle to be built up and firing strong through all of this; so that when things do go back to normal, then we just go back to the way it was, as close to that as possible, and just move on. And we’ve all survived it, and we can high-five again, and we’ll all be okay.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. How many of you watching right now can identify with your routine is changing, you’re having to create a new routine? Tyana likes the amen, and let’s… you know this is for her. Give her an “amen” with the comments right now.

Tyana Kelley:
I’ve been really focusing on helping women through this whole home schooling thing right now. I’ve been going live every day on my business page, Purple Horizons, because I’m still a reluctant home schooler. We didn’t want to be in this boat, but here we are, and how do we get through it?

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. John’s giving an “amen” so… John, one of our foundational fans here, top fan, what’s changed about your routine? Share a little bit with us in the comments there.

Carol Freeman:
One of the reasons I’m being really mindful with myself is I’m an extrovert; and I also know that not only is a love language I have touch, but it’s a human need that we have to touch other humans. We have psychology studies from the ’20s and ’30s that show that touching other humans is an essential for just mental well-being, and I live by myself. I’m a single lady, I’ve got two cats; and I’ve got to tell you as much as I want to snuggle my cats, it’s not the same as human contact. So, for my own mental well-being, I’ve been concerned, and that’s part of why I’m being very conscientious about, “Okay, I’ve gone a week now without touching another human being,” and our governor here just mandated that we not go out and not touch anybody for at least two more weeks. Three weeks, I’m going to go without any human contact, so I’m going to double-down and be very conscientious, “Okay, showering first thing in the morning might be the first thing I do to create this routine, and then make myself mentally well.” You know?

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
So, we’ve got [inaudible 00:22:59]. Yeah. Go with that.

Tyana Kelley:
I think those substitutes is going to be really important for a lot of people because we do need those physical interactions. I consider myself lucky that I am in a house with three other people, as an extrovert. It’s okay for me to still hug my kids and kiss my husband.

Carol Freeman:
I’m just afraid that about a week and a half from now I’m just going to go in the grocery store and I’m just going to go and hug a clerk, “Ah! Sorry.” Like they’re going to arrest me for assault or something like that, “No, [inaudible 00:23:33]. It was essential. It was essential touch.” Anyway.

Carol Freeman:
I’m going to move on so that Kelly gets a chance. Tyana, thank you so much.

Tyana Kelley:
[crosstalk 00:23:45].

Carol Freeman:
Any other questions for Tyana, please continue to post those in the comments here. But up next… oh, my gosh. Let me pull up the bio. So, Kelly Trach is a business coach podcaster and online course educator. She helps visionary women build digital business, and one-on-one services, and online courses. I know she’s got a really great exercise she’ll lead us through, and I can’t wait to have her up next. So, welcome Kelly.

Kelly Trach:
Hello. Welcome, everybody. Thanks so much for having me here, Carol. My name is Kelly Trach, and I help visionary women build digital businesses, and it’s based on their zone of genius, and I help them build-up a business with one-on-one services and online courses, up to a place of consistent full-time income, which I define as consistent $5K months and $10K months from your business. But the thing that I stumbled upon, accidentally through my work doing this business for the last three years, is the zone of genius work, and figuring out what is that gift that you have that makes you so unique, and how can you sell that, how can you offer that, and how can you create a service around that? I’m going to be walking you through today of talking about what exactly is your genius, why is it important, and how to find that genius of yours, and whether you build a career around that or a business or a side hustle. You can take it in any direction you like, so it’s not business-focused. Don’t worry if you have a regular job.

Kelly Trach:
I wanted to begin by explaining how I even got into the genius work and understanding what this is. Because back in the day, when people asked me what my story was, I rewind to high school because I feel like it just showed so much about me. I was like your classic overachiever. I did all the things. I wanted to be great at school, and have all these extracurriculars. I worked my butt off. I went to school here in British Columbia in Canada on scholarship. I graduated on the Dean’s list, did every single thing, tried to get all the job offers. After business school was done, I moved down to San Francisco to work on my first tech startup, and I always had wanted to build the biggest, hardest stuff.

Kelly Trach:
Now, I was always chasing these huge challenges. Tech startup one failed. I tried again, and tech startup two failed. I tried a third time, and tech startup three failed, so I had to move back home to Canada. I had a rock bottom aha moment, and I asked myself, “What if I just do what I was good at?” and this was a very life-changing question for me because I never just did what I was good at because I thought that was too easy and stupid, because I was always busy trying to prove and strive, and effort and hustle and achieve, and the irony was that I was trying harder and harder and these businesses were just not working out.

Kelly Trach:
I ended up building a fourth business, which is this one, based on the things that came naturally to me, and I turned it into a six-figure business, but it was all ironic because I was like, “How am I just doing what’s easy to me and natural to me, and it’s working, when all my life I’ve hustled and worked hard?” That’s when I started to peel back the layers and see where my genius was, and how I was indirectly harnessing it, and I reverse engineered it to figure out how to find your genius in what I call “The Genius Framework.” Let me know in the chat. Type “yes” if you agree with that story of learning to hustle, grind, be great at all the things, be well-rounded, improve your weaknesses.

Kelly Trach:
The term “zone of genius” originally comes from a dude named Gay Hendricks who write the book, The Big Leap, and he explains that we have these different pockets of life where we’re either just okay at it, or maybe we’re really good at it, and then we have our zone of genius where we’re truly exceptional, that’s where we thrive, and it’s the things that we do really innately really well. That’s his concept, and that’s the working definition that a lot of us know. The way I describe genius is a little bit differently, and what I describe in my Genius Framework is just a little bit tweaked, based on what I’ve seen for myself and in my clients’ lives.

Kelly Trach:
I want to actually start by talking about the difference between our genius and these things we’re really great at, versus just the traditional strengths, because I think those words get mixed up a lot. When we do an assessment like a strength finder, or learning about what our strengths are… let me know in the chat if you’ve ever done one of those, type “yes”… you usually get a list all the things you’re great at, but usually we’ve been taught to be well-rounded and we’re good at many things. But I like to look at the top three to five gifts; and I call them “gifts” versus “strengths” because on a list of things that we’re good at and the things we have strengths around, at the bottom of my list… like I’m still good as being a decisive, fast decision-maker, but I’m not anywhere close to the speed of somebody in the army or somebody who works in a super high-pressure job, like a surgeon making a life or death choice. But at the top, think about something… Oh, hello from Ontario.

Carol Freeman:
I could find this person’s name because when they share in the group, for some reason we can’t pull their name through, so I’ll go find their name here. So, please keep going, Kelly. Hold on, Ontario person; I’m going to get your name here in a moment.

Kelly Trach:
At the top of your strengths list, I always look at the top stuff you’re really excellent at, and call those just gifts. I like to call it “gift” because it’s stuff you’re really truly gifted at. Out of everything that you’re really good at, to super excellent at, what are you truly, truly gifted at, and I’m going to ask some questions for you to figure out what you’re truly gifted at. But if you take your top three to five here, and you figure out what those are, and you stick them together, and then you look at what those are, and then look at activities where you do all three to five, where you’re harnessing three to five ones: I believe that creates your genius. I know for me through doing work, my four things, the best things that I’m truly gifted at, is teaching, speaking, creating and connecting; and when I do things that involve all four, I create a product that is truly exceptional, and it’s something that is truly my best and highest output.

Kelly Trach:
Why is it so important to find your genius and find this area for you? Well, first and foremost, when you do work this in alignment with it, you feel super fulfilled. It’s truly work that you love doing. It comes easy to you. It’s that quality of work where it feels effortless, and people are like, “Wow, this is so great. Oh, my gosh, this is so easy for me.”

Kelly Trach:
Another great part about doing this work is that when you find it and when you tap into it, you become seen as the thought leader in your space, as the go-to expert in your field or in your career. If we can even think about it\, when we visualize people that we admire at work or in the entrepreneurial space who are just so good at what they do, that’s because they’re tapped into that genius. You can also be in that space, and when you’re doing it you can really charge what you’re worth either in an entrepreneurial sense, what you’re charging for in your business, for maybe your consulting, or your courses, or your coaching. Or in a job in a 9:00 to 5:00, you can really ask for the salary you desire because you’re so truly gifted at this and you’re doing the work that’s in your genius. That’s the value of finding your genius and honoring it, and building a life and a career and a business or a side hustle around it.

Kelly Trach:
So, I have some questions for you guys. We’re going to work through them pretty quickly, but you’re going to get the general gist of the flavor of questions.

Carol Freeman:
Whoever is watching right now, answer Kelly’s questions in the comments.

Kelly Trach:
Yeah. And our goal is to figure out what your gifts are. We want to find those best gifts of yours, and I would encourage you in a journal to write those down. Then, from there, we look at, “Okay, what activities do you do where you’re harnessing all these at once?” and “How do they create a really amazing final product?”

Kelly Trach:
My first question for you is: what are you good at that nobody taught you how to do? I think it’s such an illuminating and eye-opening question because we have those skills that we just know how to do. Nobody taught us, we didn’t maybe take a training or a class, but we’re just good at it. I know for me, I’m very good at just making things and creating stuff. I never have taken a class in Web design or graphic design or anything, but I can make anything out of anything. I’m like, “Okay, this is it. This is done.”

Kelly Trach:
Another great way to look at this is looking at what have you been good at for so many years in your life? Looking back at patterns of consistent hobbies you’ve had for years, stuff where you really find your flow doing things that you truly enjoy. What have you been doing for a long time that maybe you haven’t really taken super seriously, but you’ve said, “Oh, this is just a hobby or this little thing that I do on the side”? There might be a gift inside of that because you love doing it, and it comes so easily and naturally for you.

Carol Freeman:
John says the answer to that question is communicating.

Kelly Trach:
Nice. And you are doing a very good job communicating tonight, John, so we’re seeing this in action.

Kelly Trach:
Another question I have for you is: what things come naturally to you when you see other people struggle, and not from an egotistical sense of, “Oh, I’m better than you,” but where you can notice other people doing something and you think, “Oh, my goodness. They’re actually having a really hard time with that.” I know for me in business school we had a class on public speaking, and I remember thinking, “Oh, this is easy. This is an easy A. You show up and you talk. How hard is it?” but some people were really sweating and having a hard time, and that was the first time I realized, “Oh, maybe I’m better at this than I give myself credit for.” Think of scenarios like that in your life.

Kelly Trach:
Another question is: where do you lose track of time? This taps into the concept of flow; and when we find our flow, it’s usually also where we find our gifts and our genius. So, think about the stuff you could do forever. I like to ask the more probing question of, “If you had a spare weekend or a spare Sunday all to yourself, what would you do to fill that time?” and there might be some activities you do or things that you do that underneath have a gift or a quality which will be more pronounced. I know for me growing up, I loved making jewelry. I loved making any little craft or things, and that’s because I loved creating stuff just out of nothing.

Carol Freeman:
It doesn’t count if I lose track of time watching TikTok, right?

Kelly Trach:
Well, maybe there’s something in there for you. What you enjoy and what you enjoy doing, and also the people you respect and admire, is also a reflection of your own gifts. I love watching TikTok, too, and one of the things I’ve learned from doing a lot of this work is I feel like I bring a lot of joy to people, and I also gravitate towards things that bring me joy, so that’s another great question, too. I always like to ask, “Who are the top five people you admire and why?” and if you list out those five reasons why you love them, those are very quite frankly the gifts inside of you, too, because what we see in others is really what’s a reflection within us.

Carol Freeman:
I like the entertainment part of it, but I also really admire the people that can dance on there, and I can’t do that. I wish I could do that.

Kelly Trach:
I know. They’re so good. I’ve been trying to learn some of those dances, and I’m like, “Oh, my God. Some of these girls are expert-level dancers here.”

Carol Freeman:
Yeah.

Kelly Trach:
Another great question is: if money wasn’t an option, what would you be doing? I find this is a great question to figure out some of the gifts that you might have, and not really recognize as gifts. Because if you know money wasn’t an option and you could do anything and get paid for it, what would you be spending your time doing? Probably the stuff where you find flow, where it’s easy for you, what’s simple for you, and what you enjoy.

Kelly Trach:
Another interesting question has to do with shadow, understanding our shadow, which is the dark side of us. We all have a light and a dark side, and the shadow side is the side we usually hide from society and stuff we try to actively avoid, and it’s usually what we also don’t like in others, so it’s the same concept of what you judge in others is what you judge in yourself.

Kelly Trach:
It’s also very interesting when we think of what’s something we really don’t like in other people, and then how is the inverse of that our genius? I’ll give you an example: I really don’t like fake people. I cannot stand people who are fake or pretentious, or where they wanted to have surface of conversations, and indirectly something that I’m really gifted at is being my authentic self, and showing up as who I am, and trying as much as I can to be who I really am. So, that’s another way sometimes to find your gift is look at what you don’t like in people, and look at the inverse, and say, “Maybe I’m just really good at doing that innately.”

Kelly Trach:
Another question to ask yourself is: what are people already coming to you for? What questions do they ask you? What are your friends calling and asking you about? What kind of advice are you giving? What are people already coming to you for? That can be reflective of the gifts inside of you.

Kelly Trach:
The last question I want to propose is: what’s too easy for you that you talk yourself out of doing? There’s a lot of stuff around the genius work that I teach, around unraveling our mindset blocks, because quite often we’re taught, “No pain, no gain. You’ve got to work really hard to succeed,” and we have this notion in our head that we have to work super hard in order to be successful; and if we do things that are too easy, it doesn’t count. I know that was the case for me in my previous businesses, and all my past failed attempts in tech. I just didn’t lay into the things that were easy for me because I thought that this wasn’t how it was done. Ask yourself where in your life are you talking yourself out of doing something because it’s just too easy and too simple?

Kelly Trach:
Let me know in the comments if there’s anything that’s coming to mind for you guys, or anything that you feel like, “You know what? Maybe I have a gift in that certain sense,” or maybe there’s just something that’s coming up. Or maybe you’ve been thinking about these questions and you see a theme in your life, or you see parallel themes coming up. I would love to know what kind of gifts are coming to mind. When you find those top three to five gifts, look at them on paper together and think, “What activities do I do that harness all of these at once?” and that’s your genius. That’s your best work. That’s your best and highest output.

Kelly Trach:
That is the genius framework in a nutshell, and I’d love to answer any questions if you have any.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. I’m thinking about two different perspectives here, and one is my keto people that are watching. My clients start learning a very easy and simple way of doing keto, and their appetite goes down, and their weight is coming off. They’re used to decades of most of their brain space was thinking about their weight, “How do I lose this weight? How do I get off this weight? What do I do? What diet am I going to try?” and they find themselves, after working with me, that all of a sudden they’ve got 90% of their brain power free, and they often then go, “Oh, my gosh. I need a hobby. I need to figure out what am I going to do. How do I harness all of this?” So, this is really applicable to all of you out there that have been working with me on keto, and you find yourself with a bunch of extra brain space. You get to have something else now in your life. Whether it’s a career change, or a new hobby, or volunteering, this is the way of discovering all that, so it’s really relevant. I hope that you tap into all of what she’s saying; it’s really important.

Carol Freeman:
But also unfortunately at this time we have so many people that are being laid off, your job is no longer, and it’s sad and it’s tragic what’s going on. Also, the theme of this show is to use this time. Take some time to reflect on all these questions that Kelly has had, and use this as an opportunity to figure out what is it that you really, really want to be doing with your life and your talents? What is it that you’re so good at that nobody taught you, and what comes so easy for you? I encourage, from those two different perspectives, and maybe you’re in both camps, to just take this opportunity to see what gifts you have out there.

Carol Freeman:
All right. Then, Tyana and Derek, it’s your turn to ask questions. What questions do you have with kelly?

Tyana Kelley:
I love this so much.

Kelly Trach:
Thank you.

Tyana Kelley:
And I want to talk to you after this.

Kelly Trach:
Thank you. I want to talk to you after. Look at this: [inaudible 00:39:53] friendship happening all the time.

Tyana Kelley:
It’s just so interesting because I have actually shifted my careers a couple of times in the last few years. I stopped doing my doula work after I graduated with my master’s and went into branding, and was doing logo and Web design, and brand strategy workshops, and I found that it was too lonely for me. I went into coaching after that, and just started working with more than just women in that first year of birth and postpartum, and so going through these questions I’m like, “What is my zone of genius?” I’ve done the Roger James Hamilton Zone of Genius quiz.

Kelly Trach:
Oh, I don’t know what that is. I should Google that.

Tyana Kelley:
Yes, Google that one, too. I was a creator in his Zone of Genius thing, so I’m very interested. Can you repeat the person’s name that you said?

Kelly Trach:
Yes. His concept is different, but he’s the first person that coined that term. His name is Gay Hendricks, and he wrote the book, The Big Leap. He only talks about zone of genius for a chapter in there, but most of it is about how you combat your upper limit problem. It’s a really interesting book, but he’s the dude that made it.

Kelly Trach:
Actually, on the topic of quiz, I do have a quiz on how to figure out your genius at kellytrach.com/genius.

Carol Freeman:
Wow. Sweet.

Kelly Trach:
I know. I try to guess it in eight questions. In eight questions I try to guess, but I do my best with an algorithm thingy.

Derek Wolf:
Fantastic. I really like… I’m sorry. Were you finished with your question?

Kelly Trach:
Yeah.

Derek Wolf:
I’m sorry. I apologize.

Derek Wolf:
It’s really interesting because I do… earlier how you were talking about breaking down your genius into three to five [inaudible 00:41:58], because I do talk to a lot of people and try and take that same approach, and I’m not talking about careers and stuff. Ever since I got my degree in advertising… and I wanted to always be a copywriter, but I’ve always been doing stand up comedy… so when I got to Seattle and started actually working after college, I did half and half because I could, and then found out where I could make money in the comedy part and what I enjoyed, and then also in the advertising part. So, it is really interesting that you brought that up because that is really the same approach that I’ve taken a lot with giving people advice and stuff. That’s appreciated. That was cool.

Kelly Trach:
Thank you. I appreciate that. It’s interesting that both you, Tyana and Derek, you guys both come from that marketing. Because I went to business school, but I specialized in marketing. Carol, do you have any marketing? You have a sales background. We’re all kind of…

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. My degrees were in nutrition and psychology, but I studied sales and marketing just in the real world for longer than I’d say most of those other things.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. That was super weird. Today, I was actually supposed to go back… I got accepted to give advice to young professionals at Washington State University through the Communication College, but then the whole thing got canceled, which sucked, but I was super… Lester Holt was supposed to accept the Murrow Award and stuff. It was going to be super cool, but yeah.

Tyana Kelley:
That’s where I got my master’s.

Derek Wolf:
[crosstalk 00:43:25]. Awesome. Go Cougs!

Tyana Kelley:
Yeah.

Derek Wolf:
But, yeah. It’s interesting. It’s cool that this happened today.

Carol Freeman:
Those of you who are watching right now, who’s got some comments for Kelly, comments or questions about discovering your own zone of genius? Who’s having an aha right now where maybe you’re feeling like, “Maybe I’ve been working in the wrong field my whole life. Maybe this is a gift, a time I can use to just realign myself with my passion, my gifts in the world.” So, give us your ahas in the comments there.

Carol Freeman:
Thank you, Kelly, so much for that. I can’t wait to go take the quiz, as soon as we’re done here, myself.

Kelly Trach:
Thank you.

Carol Freeman:
Oh, my gosh. All right. Up next we have a very special guest. All the way from Seattle, Washington, Derek Wolf. He works as a remote copywriter at a Seattle-based startup advertising agency. Do we need to mention them? I don’t know. Do you want to plug them?

Derek Wolf:
It’s a world-class [inaudible 00:44:29]. That’s what I call them.

Carol Freeman:
[inaudible 00:44:30]. He drafts and publishes creative social medial messaging for local pet companies that have international reach. On top of copywriting, Derek is also a stand up comedian, regularly performs with famous radio personalities and national comedians. Derek finds that comedy has allowed him to creatively express himself off stage as well, and attributes his creative copywriting ideas to his comedic cynicism. I’m going to let you plug your own later, and we’ll put it in the show notes as well, too.

Derek Wolf:
Do it later. That’s fine.

Carol Freeman:
I know Derek through stand up comedy in the Seattle area. We, up until recently, until everything shut down, were comedy co-producers in the Seattle area. We had the hottest room in Seattle. All the comedians [inaudible 00:45:15] stage. Now, that stage is in my garage downstairs.

Derek Wolf:
Glad you got it out of the car.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. No problem. I should have videoed it. Maybe I’ll put it back there and show that.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
Derek, thank you for being here. Share with us. What have you got for us about how to use this time for self-improvement?

Derek Wolf:
I wrote a couple writer tricks, and stuff like that. I usually work from home Monday, Wednesday and Fridays, and so luckily all our clients are all digital sales, stuff like that, with website domains and stuff, so I’m still continuing to do that. I just want to give some tips that I’ve learned that have really helped, and then other things that I’m doing right now with more freed-up time with not having the stand up, and just doing that three days a week.

Derek Wolf:
The thing I’ve been trying to do for myself is really improve the skills that I have in marketing and advertising. Especially, if you’re in the creative space, everything is always evolving and you’ve got to keep up, you’ve always got to be ahead of the game and stuff. I’m actually doing an Instagram course that teaches you how to really go into the basics of that stuff, actually. What is it? Instagram Instago? Is that what it is, Carol?

Carol Freeman:
Instago?

Derek Wolf:
Instago. Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
Oh, Readysetgrad is what the training is.

Derek Wolf:
Readysetgrad. Yes, that’s it. I made it to the first lesson, but anyway… But that’s a really good [crosstalk 00:46:50].

Carol Freeman:
I just know that when you’re going through Sue B. Zimmerman, for anyone who has any time to do that.

Derek Wolf:
Suebsays, that’s the… and it’s great because I’ve always loved Instagram. The past few years, I’ve really been trying to build an audience on there, and I’ve been obsessed with that, but now it’s cool that I have the time now to really invest in something that doesn’t really get any return on yet, but it’s nice to invest that time into learning more about it, so I can eventually get to that point through that. Just anything that helps you be better into what you want to do in your free time, is something I think I would recommend when you’re working from home, and have that free time to do it for yourself.

Derek Wolf:
Then, the next part would be setting goals for yourself, I do that all the time, or if you’re working from home or taking a course. It’s always important to set end-of-the-day goals to make sure that you do get to those points where you want to be, and you also feel proud of yourself for being productive. That’s the thing where it’s easy to get distracted and procrastinate when you’re home, when you have TV sitting in your room, and all that stuff. It’s super easy to just not do it and push it off, but really separating yourself and setting an area for yourself that you only associate with work I think is the best thing, so then you can reach those goals. Immediately when you walk into that room, you’re primed to go. Sometimes if I’m too distracted I’ll go, “Not right now,” but I’ll go to the Starbucks, and then it will be like, “I’m not leaving for two hours.” So, I’m doing two hours of work, plug it in, get away from everybody, and then at least you’ll make some progress. Whether it’s good or bad, you’ll have something, and that’s always helped me, especially when your time management is less strict. That’s something that’s always helped me for sure.

Carol Freeman:
I think that’s a really great tip, right?

Derek Wolf:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Carol Freeman:
Most people are working from home, or they’re trying to work from home.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
Even if you’re laid off, what do you do with the whole day? So, setting a schedule for yourself and following that is…

Derek Wolf:
Exactly. Yeah. It’s also very important, too, to reward yourself after that; that’s what I do. I’ll be like, “Hey, you write for an hour, and then you can play video games later.”

Carol Freeman:
I’ll set a TikTok timer for 15 minutes and watch TikTok.

Derek Wolf:
Exactly. You’ve got to take time for yourself. You’ve got to reward yourself.

Derek Wolf:
The last thing I want to talk about, I think we all talked about this kind of just connecting with people. I think Carol you were talking a lot about how you wouldn’t shower until you go out to do comedy, stuff like that, and I was in the same boat, but what I would do was force myself… I’d get on shows later in the week so on a Wednesday, if I worked from home, I’d be inside all day, and then I’d be, “Okay, I have comedy at 8:00. I have to shower,” or I could just lay in bed all day, but it’s like, “No, I committed myself to the people that I want to see,” and I’ve never regretted not going to those things. So, just having some-

Carol Freeman:
I thought you were going to say you’re never good at not showering.

Derek Wolf:
Oh, no, no.

Carol Freeman:
Or regretted showering.

Derek Wolf:
Well, forcing myself to interact with people, it would always make me a lot happier than not doing it, so I think that’s a very important thing for people to do, especially in this time. Do that, but change it to the digital era. Do a book club or something where you meet with your friends once a week, stuff like that, and you’re held to some sort of goal you have to reach for… It’s like Me I [inaudible 00:50:36] with my buddies so it’s at night we’re all having some sort of social interaction in that aspect. Even though we can’t leave the house, we’re doing something together.

Carol Freeman:
This might be a fun concession for those of you guys watching right now. How long has it been since you’ve showered? Tell us in the comments here. Confession time. We’ll get a humorous take here. Yeah, that’s a great tip.

Carol Freeman:
Derek, how long has it been since you showered?

Derek Wolf:
I showered two hours ago.

Carol Freeman:
Oh, way to go!

Derek Wolf:
Shaved.

Carol Freeman:
Yay!

Derek Wolf:
[inaudible 00:51:16] two days.

Carol Freeman:
That’s great. I’ll take it personally. Thanks for showering for us.

Derek Wolf:
Of course. Yeah.

Carol Freeman:
We have seven people watching us, and as soon as I said, “How long has it been since you showered?” we dropped to three.

Derek Wolf:
They’re probably jumping in the shower, though.

Carol Freeman:
We’re going to have people watching the replay, too. Join in. This is lots of fun here.

Carol Freeman:
I’m going to pop-in a question here that John asked that’s going to be related to Kelly, and then I’m going to have Kelly and Tyana ask some questions of Derek.

Carol Freeman:
What do you say about this, Kelly: what if you do your questions and you notice that, “Oh, my gosh. I’ve got a couple of zones of genius,” but like laying on the beach? You said, “I’m really good at laying on the beach.” What do you say if you find that your zones of genius probably don’t pay very well?

Kelly Trach:
Yeah. This is a lot of what I talk about as well. Especially when it comes to gifts that we have stories around in our head. Especially things that are more creative or artistic, sometimes you get that mindset, because we have patterns of the starving artist mindset and mentality. This comes back to the money mindset work and doing the money mindset work. I really believe you can make money doing the things you love to do, and the things you are truly good at, and it comes… for this my favorite book of all is Jen Sincero’s, You’re Badass at Making Money, and it’s so true. Because even if we feel like we can’t make money using our creative gifts in the world, there’s other people that have gone on to do it.

Kelly Trach:
Jim Carrey is an amazing comedian, he’s also from Canada, but people that have gone on to do what you want to do, authors that you really respect and admire. A lot of people are like, “Oh, writing doesn’t pay the bills.” Well, Jen Sincero is making a lot of millions off her book, so it’s about finding those people who are already doing it, and proving that you can do it, too. It’s about strengthening your money mindset. In other words, it’s called “wealth consciousness.” It’s whatever word you like to use, but changing those stories you have around money, and getting rid of the patterning that says, “You can’t make money doing that. You have to have a more stable career. Do something that makes money.” So, it’s more about letting go of those stories, and changing that through changing your beliefs, but also finding other people who’ve already done it.

Kelly Trach:
It’s one of those things I always believe: I think if you really, really want it bad enough, you’ll figure out how to make it work, and how to make money off of it, and it is totally available to you with just changing the beliefs, and another thing that, “If other people can do it, you can do it, too.” So, that’s a great question, and it’s something that a lot of people get hung up on, and rightfully so. It’s a lot of the society narratives of what we can and cannot make money doing, but I encourage you just to challenge your beliefs and perceptions a little bit, and see if there’s maybe even a little bit of room to try to get paid doing what you love to do.

Tyana Kelley:
Can I chime-in on something real quick with that?

Carol Freeman:
Kardashians get paid for laying on the beach, so come on, John. You can do it, too.

Derek Wolf:
I get paid to write Tweets so…

Tyana Kelley:
I think that there is a huge pressure also right now to monetize every single thing that we do, and we need to also let go of some of that. If you have a hobby that you love that gives you a lot of pleasure in just doing that thing, you don’t have to monetize it, and monetizing it can actually reduce your pleasure, and it decreases that renewal piece. There’s a lot of pressure to do the side hustle, and it’s okay. If you’re in a place where you don’t need it financially, just enjoy it for the sake of enjoying it. That’s my advice.

Derek Wolf:
I agree. That’s right. That’s a great point.

Kelly Trach:
Yeah. I agree, too. I agree, too.

Carol Freeman:
I think this is a comment for the question about how long it’s been since you’ve showered. Mike was a guest on your Saturday show and he’s been watching diligently as well. So, thank you for chiming-in, Mike. Thank you for showering. I don’t know how long it’s been before then, but you know…

Derek Wolf:
That doesn’t matter.

Carol Freeman:
Cool. John just scheduled his… anyway.

Carol Freeman:
What questions do Kelly and Tyana have for Derek?

Kelly Trach:
I have a question for you, Derek. You were talking about building your Instagram following. You said that’s for your comedy and your copywriting work. I’m just curious as to how you’ve been getting your name out there, how you’ve been extending your reach.

Derek Wolf:
For Instagram, it’s mostly been just for the comedy aspect of it. I started a new profile about two years ago. I’ve been interested in imagery and stuff, and so I just really decided to try it after I graduated, and really just been posting a bunch of pictures from comedy shows. I also used to work at a radio station, so I go to concerts all the time, so I’ve got content through that, but then also doing blogging and stuff. I do a mock Gary Vaynerchuk kind of thing.

Kelly Trach:
Cool.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. It’s like inspirational, but dumb, so that’s the whole…

Kelly Trach:
I love that.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. I did one off the files like, “Hey, I’m just going to try this,” and the people really reacted to it, and then I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to keep doing it,” and branding myself onto that. That’s how I’ve been getting a following. It’s just word of mouth, and following other comedians and stuff.

Kelly Trach:
Cool.

Tyana Kelley:
I love stand up comedy. I want to try it some day.

Carol Freeman:
Ah.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. Well, everyone is doing it from their living room right now.

Tyana Kelley:
I have a friend who said that I remind her of Seinfeld, so I was like, “Yes.”

Carol Freeman:
Oh.

Derek Wolf:
Oh, there you go. That’s awesome.

Carol Freeman:
In six or 12 or 18 months… or whatever the world gets back to normal, Tyana… we’ll have you out for one of our open mics when we open things back up again.

Derek Wolf:
There we go.

Tyana Kelley:
Just in time. I have enough time to write something.

Derek Wolf:
Yes.

Carol Freeman:
Derek, I’m going to go out on a limb right now and I’m going to promise her a guest spot on one of our shows back when we can do that.

Derek Wolf:
You got it.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. Well, you’ve got to do the open mic first, but yeah. There you go. You’ve got an open invitation [inaudible 00:58:03] genius. We’re going to save a spot for you. That’s how [inaudible 00:58:08].

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. we’ve got one for you, too, Kelly. Don’t worry.

Kelly Trach:
Okay. I’ll do a little road trip down there because I’m in Vancouver.

Carol Freeman:
That’s awesome. Other comments or questions? How about those of you watching? Who’s got comments/questions for Derek, Tyana or Kelly? Last time here. We’re going to wrap this up, you guys.

Carol Freeman:
John says he stutters, “No stand up for this kid.” Actually, who is the comedian in the Seattle area who has a stutter and he is amazing? He’s so funny. Derek, do you remember that guy? Have you seen him?

Derek Wolf:
I haven’t seen him for a while.

Carol Freeman:
[inaudible 00:58:52]. He came to our open mic before, too, but maybe it was one of the nights that you were off. Is it Jeremy something? I want to say Jeremy McDonald. Isn’t that him?

Derek Wolf:
Yeah. I think, yeah.

Carol Freeman:
Stuttering is no excuse for not doing stand up. He is amazing. He’s so hilarious. So, John, you’ve got to-

Derek Wolf:
You’d never know, but he brings it up, which is great.

Carol Freeman:
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. All right. We’re going to go ahead and wrap this up. We’re been streaming for virtually an hour now. This has been so great. Thanks for hanging out with me.

Carol Freeman:
Those of you that are watching, thank you so much. We’re going to transition over and actually be broadcasting just from my Facebook page. Tonight, we’re in the group and also on my business page, and we’re going to actually, from going forward, we’re going to be steaming live on my business page; that way, people don’t have to join the group to be able to have access to this. Those of you that are watching, please share this with anyone that you know right now could use some positivity, some redirect, some hopeful and optimism in this time, anyone especially who is following or wants to follow a ketogenic diet for optimal health and well-being. Please share [inaudible 01:00:07], how you give us the compliment. Every single night, 7:00 p.m. Pacific, we’re going live. I’ve got guests booked out for the next week already, too. I’m excited to share all of that, too.

Carol Freeman:
The way that I’m going to wrap this up is I’m going to have each of you… this is what I call “the lightening bolt round.” This is what I do in my coaching, how I close-out my coaching calls, but it’s how we’ve been doing this here as well on these live shows. We have some other comment here again about… anyway, sorry. We’ve got a comment about, “We’ll look up the website.”

Carol Freeman:
Oh, John is asking, “Do you need a dad joke?” Come on, John. Share the dad joke with us.

Derek Wolf:
Let me hear it. Let me hear it.

Carol Freeman:
Let’s hear it, John. Let’s hear the dad joke. We all need some jokes at this time.

Carol Freeman:
But somebody else was saying, “Couldn’t answer all the questions so quickly.” The nice thing is this recording is going to be up there; you’ll be able to re-watch again. Also, I’m going to invite each of our guests to share their contact information with you here very shortly.

Carol Freeman:
If you’re watching and you missed all of Kelly’s questions, then I encourage you to follow up. Also, if you comment here, Kelly is going to go back through and she’ll find you… she’ll find you. She’ll find you and she’ll share all the questions with you privately, too. If you want those questions again, make a comment as well, and we’ll have Kelly follow up with you. Also, if you want the prism framework as well, make a comment, too, and we’ll have Tyana follow up with you, too, and if you want the work from home Instagram strategies for Derek as well.

Carol Freeman:
So, lightening bolt round. This is where each of you share your aha, your takeaway from this. Also, feel free in your closing to share how people can contact you. If you have some kind of a freebee… or the quiz, Kelly, again if you want to mention that… or anything else that you’d like to share with people to connect with you, do that as well. Is that too many things for you to remember what to say?

Tyana Kelley:
Hopefully not. Do you want to go the same order as we started with?

Carol Freeman:
Totally random whoever wants to go first.

Tyana Kelley:
All right. I’m already talking, so I guess I will. I guess my big takeaway was the genius questions, and I really want to follow up with Kelly about all of that.

Tyana Kelley:
My contact information, I am Tyana Kelley. My company is Purple Horizons. My website is PurpleHorizons.com, very easy.

Tyana Kelley:
What I want to share with you is that I have my next heart prisms class, which is called, “From Surviving to Thriving,” it’s on my website, and I just got that all up and scheduled for April. It’s a four-part class and it’s just 30 minutes each day, and we’ll go through three heart prisms every day, and it’s just $50 for all four days, and there’s no homework. We do it all in class, so I think that’s a big plus for a lot of people, is that the value is all self-contained in the class. You don’t have to do a lot of homework.

Tyana Kelley:
I really loved being here, and thanks for inviting me today.

Carol Freeman:
Thank you so much, Tyana. Thank you. We’ve got somebody that’s saying they want the prism, so I’ll let you go back and follow up with people, too.

Tyana Kelley:
Okay, great.

Carol Freeman:
Thanks for being here.

Tyana Kelley:
Thank you.

Kelly Trach:
I’ll go next. I think my biggest aha moment, number one, is that instead of calling it “self-care” call it “renewal.” I love that. Also, I just love connecting, the four of us, in this chat and seeing you guys on video. This feels so fun, and it definitely is the highlight of my day, and as an extrovert I feel like I really needed this. So, just that reminder to connect and meet people and just get creative with how we can stay connected during this time I think is just so important.

Kelly Trach:
You can find me at KellyTrach.com. My last name is spelled T-R-A-C-H, even though I pronounce it like “track and field.” You can take the quiz to figure out what’s your zone of genius at KellyTrach.com/genius, and you get sent a five-page free report on what your zone of genius is based on the quiz, and my suggestions for you if you want to build a business, what you could sell, how you could market it, based on your genius type. You can find me on Instagram @kellytrach. Everything is at just “kellytrach,” just my name. I’ve got courses, coaching, the whole nine yards, but you can all find that KellyTrach.com.

Kelly Trach:
And thanks so much for having me, Carol. It was such a pleasure and an honor to be here. It was nice to meet you, Derek and Tyana. This was really fun.

Carol Freeman:
This is great news. On the screen your name is spelled the way that it’s correctly spelled, so all of you watching you’ll see that, how to connect with her. So, thank you for being here. It’s been great.

Derek Wolf:
Yeah, it’s been super fun. I feel like I’m on a CNN panel right now. Whenever my dad is watching news, I’m like, “Yeah, this is what this looks like.”

Derek Wolf:
My main takeaways from today, I love just the focus on what you’re good at and passionate about, and finding your purpose, and really pursuing that, but also doing that for you, and not just trying to make money off it and make it into something that you won’t enjoy, which I think is the most important part of your passion. Yeah, those were very good takeaways.

Derek Wolf:
You can find me… go and see my comedy promotions, stuff like that. I’m on Instagram @wolf.c.derek, and then I have a Derek Wolf comedy Facebook page. And if you want any copywriting services, my website is www.DerekWolfIsntFunny.com.

Carol Freeman:
Isn’t?

Derek Wolf:
Isn’t funny. Yeah. So, thanks so much for having me, Carol. It was great meeting you guys, and it would be great connecting with you guys.

Carol Freeman:
Wonderful. Kelly, it looks like you’ve got one new Instagram follower already.

Kelly Trach:
Thank you. Hello, John. Thank you for following.

Carol Freeman:
Oh, my gosh. Thank you all of our viewers live and seeing the replay. Thank you so much for watching this. Give yourself the big thumbs up. Thank you, again. We’re going to be live here every single evening, 7:00 Pacific time. If you miss us, the replay is going to be up there as well, too.

Carol Freeman:
So, thank you to all of our guests, and we’ve got a lot of great shows coming up. Thank you, everyone, for being here.

Carol Freeman:
That’s all for now. Bye.

Kelly Trach:
Bye.

Derek Wolf:
Bye, John.

Tyana Kelley:
Good night.

Carol Freeman:
John is our super fan.

Keto Chat Episode 119: Keto Success Stories Women over 50

Carole Freeman:
Hey, welcome everyone to another episode of Keto Chat. I’m your host today, Carole Freeman. I’m your host today. I’m your host every day. Oh my gosh. Today I am so excited because I get to share with you Carmen’s journey working with me and one of the reasons we get to do this interview is she’s now one of our peer mentors working with supporting everyone else on keto too. So welcome Carmen. Are you excited to be here? No, no, you’re not.

Karmen Cabral:
Not really, but yeah.

Carole Freeman:
I know you’re nervous. Everyone watching, give her some thumbs up and love about her bravery for being here, even though she’s a little nervous. So Karmen, I know one of your, when we first talked before we started working together, one of your big drivers was, you’re so passionate about keto that you want to help a lot of other people. You want to have everyone else.

Karmen Cabral:
I do. I just think it’s the best thing. I just can’t believe how good I feel. And when I tell people about it, they just look at me like, yeah, right. But it’s true. They just need to experience it and feel it.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Yeah. Excellent.

Karmen Cabral:
[crosstalk 00:01:30] I told my doctor about it yesterday, so I had a doctor’s appointment, hadn’t had one in two years. And I told her about it and I said, “One of the things that I noticed is my joints. I feel like my joints have been lubricated. Like somebody put oil on them.”

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Isn’t that great.

Karmen Cabral:
And she just looked at me, “Okay, that’s not possible.” I said, “Yeah, it is.”

Carole Freeman:
No it’s so true. Because I remember, I’m 49 now, but when I turned 40, early 40s, I remember talking to my mom about how in the morning getting up, it was like my ankles felt stiff and I had to move around a little bit to get going in the morning. And she’s like, “Oh honey. Yeah, that’s just part of getting older. Ha, ha, ha.” And then probably three months into keto where I had that realization of like, “Wait a minute, I don’t have that anymore. I don’t have stiff anything in the morning.” It’s like I just get up and feel as good as I feel the rest of the day. So then I was like, “Mom, it’s not normal.”

Karmen Cabral:
Absolutely. That’s how I feel. I couldn’t even put my feet on the ground in the morning.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, it’s great. And we know now why that is, but your doc says that’s impossible. That’s okay. We can just keep enjoying the benefits of it and all that. So, part of what I want to do here is highlight your journey and success that you’ve had in working with me because it’s so inspirational to other people to hear people’s success. So take us back to before you started working with me, what was your life like? What was it like living in your body? What kind of things were you unhappy with?

Karmen Cabral:
Well, that’s exactly what I was discussing with my doctor yesterday. So it’s been two years since I went to see her. And one of the issues two years ago was that on a mammogram it turned out that I had enlarged lymph nodes and that kind of scared me a bit. I was like, “Okay, what’s going on?” So I went through ultrasounds, I was supposed to do a biopsy. They didn’t end up doing the biopsy because they said they still look more normal, but they were just was enlarged. And that kind of got me thinking that I’ve got to do something. I was told that my lymphatic system was probably sluggish and I needed to move. I needed to do something to get it moving. And I’m not an exercise person, although I’ve started to exercise recently, but I just knew it wasn’t going to happen that way.

Karmen Cabral:
And I’ve always gone to dieting, so it’s like, okay, “I know I’m overweight, I need to lose weight, I just can’t keep the weight off.” That was two years ago, but prior to that I had also a numb leg. So my right leg was always numb. I sat one time for hours and hours at my computer and then from that day forward I always had numbness in my leg. I had done a few DVT tests, everything came back normal, but I always had this numbness and I had pain in my legs. So my legs, it wasn’t the muscles, it was the surface of the leg. So if you touched the skin on the leg, it actually felt like everything was bruised. So all of these things started adding up. And then I had this big birthday coming up and I thought it’s only going to get worse.

Karmen Cabral:
So I needed to take charge of my health and I don’t have any diagnosed diseases, and I put in capital letters, yet, because they’re on the horizon and I knew that they’re coming on the horizon. My mom had a ton of diseases, so I just wanted to make sure that I can take back my health and try to minimize anything that would come up. And keto is.

Carole Freeman:
All right. Excellent. So had you tried keto on your own before starting to work with me or?

Karmen Cabral:
So it goes back a little bit. So I had investigated keto, I was doing some research on it for about a year and a half before I started with you, Carole. I’d heard about it when a parent on my son’s volleyball team and I bought every single book at Costco. I looked at all of them, they looked all wonderful, all these recipes, and it was just overwhelming. I couldn’t figure out what macros were, what I needed to do. It was just too much information and I just started to follow some people on YouTube, what did they eat for the day? And it’s like, “Okay, what did they eat?” It was just still, I just needed guidance. There was just too much information. So your guidance was actually the perfect thing.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. Okay, that’s a very common story is that people, I was talking to a guy yesterday actually, he says, “I keep looking for just an easy how to get started with keto thing and there isn’t, it isn’t out there. Why?” And part of it is because-

Karmen Cabral:
Too much information.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, there’s too much information. And also what works for each person is very different. And so that’s why there’s no one here’s how everyone should do it, that works for everyone. So that’s why there’s so much info. The good and the bad of the world we live in now is that there’s a plethora of info, but most people out there try to consume it all and they just get more confused and overwhelmed. And so-

Karmen Cabral:
That’s exactly what was happening.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. So you got a plan, a program, a step-by-step implementation to get started quick and easy. I’m just-

Karmen Cabral:
And that’s what I needed. I don’t like to be told eat this and this and this. It was pretty easy because it was all very basic. And I think I mentioned right from the beginning, I’m a grab and go kind of person. I can’t preplan too many meals or meals and I talk with my hands. I’ve got to stop that.

Carole Freeman:
No, it’s great. Me too.

Karmen Cabral:
But I just needed it to be simple enough. And when I reviewed the information, the beginning, it was just simple enough that it wasn’t anything that I had to spend a half hour to an hour pre-planning or preparing. I went out and got the groceries that I liked according to the list of foods that we could use and I just went with that. So everything I made for my kids I had made in a way that I could eat it and I didn’t have to make something for them and something for me.

Carole Freeman:
Excellent. Fantastic. So let’s talk about your results. So the first chunk of time we worked together was over a couple of months and I’ve got the list of results that you got. Do you remember what happened over the first couple of months?

Karmen Cabral:
I think I do. I don’t know. I did lose weight. That was number one at the time was losing weight. But how I felt actually was even better than just the weight loss. Because like I said earlier, I don’t have the pain that I was experience. I felt like an old lady and I don’t want to feel like an old lady. I want to have energy. And it was like I didn’t have the energy, I didn’t have the brain functioning. It felt like my brain was always in a fog. I left my purse at Walmart in the shopping cart one time and I got home and I didn’t have my purse. I’m like, “Oh my God.” And it was like, “What’s going on with my brain?” So all of this stuff improved along with the weight. So the weight during the first time that we worked together was around 28 pounds I think it was. And then from there I continued. I’ve lost a little bit more, but I’ve noticed that there’s been more bodily changes as opposed to scale changes.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Yeah. So I’ve got the list of all the things that we talked about after a couple of months. So yeah, the weight loss, lots of inches off your waist. You were reporting no cravings, no desire for non-keto foods, improved brain fog, like what you were just sharing about the leaving your purse behind, the joint lubrication and then the numbness is improved. So this was, at this point, probably about six months ago was when we looked at this. So how the numbness now? Has it continued to improve?

Karmen Cabral:
No numbness since then. Nothing has really changed. Still no cravings? No, none of that. I wouldn’t say I’m 100% following the original instructions, but I’m pretty much about 90 to 95%.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. And then your heartburn went completely away too.

Karmen Cabral:
What’s that?

Carole Freeman:
Your heartburn went away too.

Karmen Cabral:
Oh yeah. None. None.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah. Excellent. Congratulations on all that. Must feel amazing. And I know you are, because you just said you went to the doctor and were like-

Karmen Cabral:
Oh yeah, no, it’s almost like, “Okay maybe you need to tell people to do something like this.” She has referred me to a clinic. So there’s only, I don’t know if I mentioned I’m in Canada, and we have one medical doctor that is covered by our health insurance that doctors can refer patients to when they do have a weight issue. And she had referred me to the doctor two years ago and there was just too much going on at the time. But there are some similarities with keto. It’s just that keto find is easier because a lot of the foods that were restricted on that diet along with most diets are why the fatty foods that keto has, like the bacon that I couldn’t have. I stopped eating bacon for years.

Carole Freeman:
Oh, okay.

Karmen Cabral:
I’m so happy to eat bacon.

Carole Freeman:
You guys have one weight loss doctor. That’s amazing. He must be really busy.

Karmen Cabral:
There’s several, but only one that is covered by the health insurance so that [inaudible 00:11:32] and you don’t have to pay.

Carole Freeman:
Okay. Okay. Wow, wow. Well, so what tips would you have for people that are watching this? What tips would you share as far as keys to your success?

Karmen Cabral:
Stick to the plan because it really works. And the tracking of the macros. That is so important, because one of my fears when I did start, or concerns not fears, when I did start was I was already what I considered low carb. Through years and years of dieting, I learned that I had to be low carb. I just didn’t realize that I still wasn’t as low carb as I needed to be and that there’s carbs in vegetables. Who knew?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Karmen Cabral:
So tracking really, really is an eye opener to see what is in your foods and then knowing how to manipulate what you’re eating to still feel full, but get the benefit of the foods you want.

Carole Freeman:
Okay, so track tracking is key discovery for carbs. Yeah. Follow the plan.

Karmen Cabral:
Like one onion has nine grams or carbs. That’s crazy. I use onion, or I used to use onion in absolutely everything.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. That was one of the eye opening things for me too, as I started trying to do recipes later on in my keto journey, it was like, “Oh my gosh, I got to re-learn how to cook now.”

Karmen Cabral:
Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Other tips? Okay, so stick with the program. Stick with the plan, track everything. Any other tips, things that you think were really instrumental in your success?

Karmen Cabral:
Not so much. I really didn’t have much time to officially prepare. When I decided to commit with you, I said, “I’m starting like tomorrow. I’m not going to bother trying to figure anything out.” But again, because I had done some other experimenting with dieting and low carb and all of that. But one of the things that I brought over from, I stopped smoking two years ago 2017, was the fact that I had to be mentally prepared. Doesn’t matter how much you want to lose weight. You can say it all you want, but if your brain isn’t in it, it’s not going to happen.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Yeah. So be ready.

Karmen Cabral:
My main one. You need to make a commitment, but it has to be psychologically prepared for it as well.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Okay. Good. All right, so what’s your outlook on keto going forward? What’s your plan, goals? What do you want to do with your keto inspiration?

Karmen Cabral:
I still want to do a little bit more weight loss. I’m happy where I am. I feel great. I wouldn’t mind getting down another 10 or 20 pounds. Twenty pounds would be fantastic, but I’d be happy with another 10. And I’d like to support anyone who wants to do keto is just, I think really it’s the way to go.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. And I love that because I know again, when we first started, one of your things was like, “I want to be keto Karmen. I want to influence everyone. I want to tell everyone how great this is and help heal everyone.” And so I’m so excited to welcome you as one of our newest peer mentors and helping be able to coach and support other people on keto. And I get to guide you as you support and share with everyone else on the rest of your journey. What are some non-skill victories, other things, things that are different now in your life that you’re doing that you weren’t doing before?

Karmen Cabral:
Well, you’re going to laugh, but we went away at the beginning of January, last summer actually, so I had already lost most of the weight last summer and I bought a whole bunch of those Brazilian bikini’s and like one in every color and I wore them all on my vacation.

Carole Freeman:
Yay. Body confidence. That’s excellent. How fun. Nice

Karmen Cabral:
It was. It was like, “Okay, I’m 50 and I’m wearing this. I don’t care.”

Carole Freeman:
Nice. Good job lady. All right, well thank you so much for sharing your success, your story. You’re very inspirational for a lot of people. And anything else that you want to share in closing? Anything else you were hoping I would ask about or any other thing you want to share?

Karmen Cabral:
No, I think just in terms of, one of the things I’d like to talk to people about when I am talking about keto is all the benefits for different diseases. And that was another motivator for me because my mother had just about every disease. She had arthritis, osteoporosis, low thyroid, diabetes, type 2 diabetes, cholesterol. She developed multiple myeloma, which is a bone marrow, a hematology cancer. So she had a whole list of them and I knew that, and I know that potentially I may develop one of these. So to me it’s important to minimize whatever is going to come up. And I just think for people in general, there’s so many diseases out there. Every time you talk to somebody you haven’t seen in awhile and it’s like, “Did you hear so and so has cancer, so and so has this,” let’s just be healthy.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Wonderful. Well I’m so excited that you’re on that path to the healthiest you.

Karmen Cabral:
Yes.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Already getting the benefits. So Karmen, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for being here.

Karmen Cabral:
No problem.

Carole Freeman:
Thanks everyone for watching. Subscribe, subscribe. Hit the bell to get notifications. Give us a thumbs up if you enjoyed this interview. We’ll see you all soon. Thanks for watching. Bye.

Karmen Cabral:
Bye.

Keto Chat Episode 118: Keto Diet Before and After 1 Year

Carole Freeman, Certified Nutritionist, Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist, speaker, and comedian, specializes in a ketogenic diet coupled with behavioral psychology interventions to help people achieve lifelong weight loss. She  is a board Certified Ketogenic Nutrition Specialist through the American Nutrition Association and completed her master’s degree in Nutrition and Clinical Health Psychology at Bastyr University, and a Certification in Clinical Hypnotherapy from the Wellness Institute. After a disabling car accident in 2014, Carole discovered the healing power of the ketogenic diet to relieve her Chronic Regional Pain Syndrome, Post-Traumatic Hypopituitarism, and reverse metabolic syndrome.

In this episode of Keto Chat, she interviews her client, Maryann Harlow, about her weight loss and transformation over the last year. She also shares her tips and tricks to making quick and easy, tasty keto meals.

Transcript:

Carole Freeman:

Hey, welcome everyone to another episode of Keto Chat. Today, well, hey, I’m your host, Carole Freeman. I am here today with a very special guest. I know I say that every time, but hey, can’t I be equally excited every time I get to interview somebody? Today, I’m here with Marianne. And, oh my gosh, she was a flash from the past. She was somebody that sent me a message on, I think on Instagram or Facebook. And I didn’t even recognize who she was because her transformation was so amazing. She was a former client of mine. I was like, who is this person? And when I saw the before photos, I was like, oh my goodness. So welcome, Marianne.

Marianne Harlow:

Thank you.

Carole Freeman:

Well, Marianne, let’s start out, have you introduce yourself. Who are you? Who are you in this world?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, I’m Marianne Harlow. I live in Spokane, Washington. And I am a retired 62 year old that is enjoying playing in retirement. Was in the travel business for most of my career. So it’s in my blood, but now I’m traveling more on the ground with a little travel trailer and going out and just seeing the countryside.

Carole Freeman:

Wonderful. Excellent. So let’s talk about your keto journey. How did you first hear about it? Before you ever met me, what happened for you? Maybe even go back even further before keto. Like your weight journey. How about that?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, my weight journey probably began with my mom. She always fought with her weight and so I watched that my entire life. And so I joined the yoyo uppy-downy plan. Tried hospital sponsor program. Jenny Craig. You know, soup to nuts, if it was out there, I eventually tried it. And eventually ended up in a worse spot than where I started. Pretty typical story. And then the fall of 2018 I’d gone to Hawaii with a friend and after a helicopter tour they took a picture of us. And when I saw the picture I about died. It was like, oh my God, when did that happen? How did that happen?

Marianne Harlow:

And when I got home I was chatting with a girlfriend who had been trying keto. And so she loaned me a book and I read it. And it’s like, well this sounds pretty reasonable. And foods that I like and something that I could live with without feeling deprived. So I tried it and did okay. But then I got on the internet and was reading about all different ketos and there’s so much misinformation or cross information. It’s like, what in the heck are you supposed to believe? And so I started searching out keto help more locally and that’s when I ran across you and your program and said, let’s just dive in. So that was the first part of January of 2019.

Carole Freeman:

All right. What was it that made you decide to get help rather than just trying to figure it out all on your own?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, all my life I’ve been trying to figure it out on my own and hadn’t been very successful. And I think deep inside me, I knew it was more of a head game for me, that I needed to figure out why this is a recurring thing. I’ve been pretty successful in my life, but I couldn’t get a handle on this weight issue.

Carole Freeman:

Now a lot of people I work with are in the same boat. They’ve been really successful and then they beat themselves up about, why can’t I figure this part out? What kind of insights do you have now about how much of that was your fault versus just the wrong approach or the wrong support?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, I think a little bit of everything. I grew up in a household where it was you had to clean your plate regardless if you were hungry or not. So a long time ago I had lost the ability to recognize if I was really hungry or if I was really full, or if it was I was bored. What the heck, it was, I think rarely that I was eating because my body actually needed fuel.

Carole Freeman:

So you got all the wires crossed, you couldn’t trust your own appetite or hunger and you’d learned to ignore that which most people-

Marianne Harlow:

Exactly.

Carole Freeman:

I mean, that’s what I see with most every other diet plan out there is that they’re still trying to teach you, you need all these external things to tell you what to do and what to eat and when to eat to how much to eat.

Marianne Harlow:

Exactly. Or like the Jenny Craig thing, eating prepackage food you didn’t have to worry about the quantities or anything. But it didn’t teach me anything. I didn’t know myself any better to do better on my own.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Because you’re either then you’re learning to eat prepackaged food, or what?

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah.

Carole Freeman:

There’s no other option with that program. Yeah.

Marianne Harlow:

And it also, you were deprived because it was… I mean, the quantities were little, but it also wasn’t very interesting. Just wasn’t satisfying physically or mentally.

Carole Freeman:

So you feel like now you’re getting better in touch with knowing when you’re actually hungry, when you’re full, when you need more food?

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah, absolutely. It’s sometimes the old habits creep in and you look at the clock and it’s six o’clock. Wait a minute. Am I hungry? No, I’m not hungry. Huh, that’s cool. Okay. Moving on. Instead of just doing it by rote of the learned patterns over our lifetime.

Carole Freeman:

That’s so great. And you probably heard me like a broken record say how much I’m really passionate about helping my clients really learn to trust their body again. So getting back to a state that you can actually trust your body, your appetite, your hunger, your thirst.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah. I went through your emotional eating program. I don’t remember the exact title. But that was extraordinarily helpful to me, is it gave me the tools to figure out what my reality was. Where before you play games with yourself or whatever you’re doing, but that really made you dig deep and say, okay, why am I really doing this and how is it serving me? And how can I change it and pay attention to what my body really needs food-wise? Versus, it’s not a sport, you don’t just do it for enjoyment. So it’s really changed my attitude too from living to eat, to now, I eat to live. It’s, if there’s nothing around, say even in the afternoon if I’m hungry or something. Yesterday I had a meeting and I wasn’t hungry before the meeting and it’s like, oh, I’ll just worry about it when I get back. And when I got home I still wasn’t hungry. It’s like, well, probably weren’t that hungry reality anyway. It’s like, have a glass of salt water and call it good.

Carole Freeman:

You probably had a little flash, a twinge in your brain that was like, well, if you don’t eat now, you’re not going to get to eat in the meeting and you might get hungry. Which is something I really identify with before, but that was just an old pattern that you’ve learned enough, your brain has learned enough that it’s going to be okay. I’m not going to get hungry in the middle of the meeting, and if I do, I’m not going to crash and burn.

Marianne Harlow:

Well and being keto adapted, you travel around with fuel with you all the time. So if you miss a meal it just means your body’s going to go, oh, well let’s just take a little from here and a little from there. Which works out great for everybody.

Carole Freeman:

That’s wonderful. So let’s talk about, so you’ve done a couple of my programs. What’s been your overall success? Where did you start and what are all the things that you noticed? Because you worked with me for a couple of months and then a few months after that, and then I didn’t hear anything from you for maybe six or eight months or so. And then you came back having a grand transformation. So let’s do it in phases. So in the first few months, what did you notice, changes and improvements then?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, one of the things I really liked about the program is you provided sample menus, but more importantly it was how to construct your own. Because I’m kind of a weird picky eater, and so it’s like, I don’t care for avocados. So you gave me the formula to say, okay there’s avocado on this but I don’t have to eat that. I can eat this instead and they work out about similar with the fat and protein and carbs and such. So that was very helpful in giving me the tools to adapt it to my own personal likes.

Marianne Harlow:

When I came back from Hawaii, I’m guessing at my weight because it was too frightening to stand on the scale. And so I’m guessing it’s probably 60 to 65 pounds I’m down from when I started. And having the coaching support and the calls. The coaching calls I found really inspiring because other people would have questions that either I’d thought about and forgotten, or that I hadn’t really thought about but was able to apply to my own world and my own eating patterns, or whatever. So those calls were really important. And then the emotional eating course just really got to the root. So the first one set me up to start taking my weight off and the inches off. And then the second one was like, okay, how and why? And how can you approach this to make it a lifelong thing?

Marianne Harlow:

This isn’t a diet, it’s not a temporary thing. It’s a change of the way I live. And I periodically go fall off the cliff, but I haven’t found it terribly difficult to get back on track. I think because of the tools, especially from the emotional eating program. But just knowing the basics of, okay, need to get back on track. Just reel it back in. I know what to eliminate, where the carb creep comes from. And I just need to get back to weighing and measuring and paying attention. And so it’s been a pretty… Well, I was going to say a straight line journey, but there’s bumps along the road. But it’s still sustainable in the longterm, I think.

Carole Freeman:

That’s what I want to ask next then, is that if you can imagine in the past any other diet plan that you’d followed. First of all, have you ever been a year out of following any diet plan?

Marianne Harlow:

Oh yeah.

Carole Freeman:

Okay. And then how did you feel a year after you started? Did you feel like, wow, this is really easy and sustainable I can do this forever? Or were you feeling, ugh?

Marianne Harlow:

Rarely that it was sustainable. Probably the one that came closest was Atkins, which isn’t terribly different than keto. But I think I succumb to the carb pushers in my world. And I think I have better tools now to deal with those people that think, you can’t eat like that. It’s like, well, first of all, it’s none of your business how I eat. And second of all, you can have all my share of that. I don’t need it. It makes me feel bad. I don’t like the feeling after I’ve eaten stuff that is pretty much out of my world now. The sugar and the grains and that type of thing. So I think I have just a better set of tools now to go forward with than I did before.

Carole Freeman:

So it sounds like you’ve figured out the formula for your success then is really, so keto, low carb-ish eating, right? Is compared to what you’ve done before, feels like the most sustainable way of eating. And then the emotional leading tools that I taught you through that program. As well as, at least initially, the coaching support that you got answered a lot of questions for you. So it sounds like usually there’s a three legged stool that helps people support their success, it sounds like you really got that figured out.

Marianne Harlow:

Absolutely. And I think it’s also, if I start to slip a little bit, I have the tools to get back on track and I know exactly what I need to do. And it’s not difficult to use those tools. It’s, I just go put my scale back in the middle of my stove where it reminds me every time I eat, let’s weigh this, let’s measure it, let’s keep track of it. And I don’t think in the past a year out my cupboards are still really clean of carby stuff. Probably the one carby thing in my cupboards would be canned chopped tomatoes [inaudible 00:16:25] periodically I make chili or something like that, but it becomes a small part instead of the focus of whatever I’m eating. But the ladies I camp with loved it when I did this because I cleaned my cupboards and I took them on camping trips and said, okay, the store’s open. Come get it.

Carole Freeman:

Oh, that’s funny. All right. So besides the weight loss, what else have you noticed that’s changed in your life?

Marianne Harlow:

Well being 62 and 60 some pounds heavier, everything was achy. It was an effort. It was a pain. You know, putting your socks on was a pain to get past your belly. Last fall I went on a big RV trip and we probably averaged hiking, I don’t know, five, six miles a day. And it was all above five and 6,000 feet in elevation. And it wasn’t until I got home that I really thought about that and thought, holy smokes, if I had been lugging 60 extra pounds I would never have done a quarter of that. So it certainly makes life a lot more fun.

Marianne Harlow:

My dog loves it because we go for walks way more often than we used to. It’s just like a lot easier dealing with aches and pains, or lack thereof. And also I used to have, I remember this, I used to have acid reflux. I don’t know, three or four times a week or more and it was awful. It would wake me up in the night and stuff. And I can’t remember the last time I had acid reflex, and it probably had to do with one of those days that I went a little sideways. And it’s like, oh, that crap just doesn’t agree with me. Which is also a good reminder to not eat that kind of stuff. But it’s amazing how I don’t have the acid reflux at all anymore.

Carole Freeman:

Yes, it’s very, very common that acid reflux, despite what the doctors say about, well you should have less spicy food and put your head to your bed up and you should do all these other things and take acid blockers. And it’s like, oh, actually if you just reduce the carbs, it all goes away.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah. Or this is weird too. I always had a stomach that gurgled and made noise and stuff, and that doesn’t happen any longer either.

Carole Freeman:

Wonderful. So less aches and pains,, you’re feeling lifestyle freedom, being able to be free to be active as you like and explore and hike. And no more acid reflex and anything. I imagine, well, it sounds like more energy too, based on what you’re saying about your being able to walk your dog all the time.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah. And it’s been fun to closet shop. Yesterday I had a meeting, and being retired I rarely get dressed up. And so I was like, okay, there must be something in the back of the closet here. It’s like, oh, I forgot all about this suit. We’ll just put that on. It’s like, ooh, looking good.

Carole Freeman:

Nice, nice. Anything else that you noticed the has dramatically improved in your life for the last year?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, it’s interesting, because I have friends from various parts of my life that have contacted me. Well, I sent you the pictures of the before and then a couple that were almost exactly a year apart. And I accidentally posted that on my Facebook page. I was trying to do a collage. And I had, I think, four different people from different parts of my life contact me privately. It’s like, oh my God, what have you done? So it’s like, well hey, it’s pretty simple, straightforward, way to go.

Carole Freeman:

Nice. So that usually happens, people notice a big difference and they’re like, what’s your secret? Tell me.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah. It’s kind of fun. Especially after being pretty disgusted with the state that you’ve allowed yourself to get in to actually feel like you look like you’d like to instead of trying to hide it under big baggy clothes and all that stuff.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. I had a similar experience where I saw a photo of myself with family and it was like, oh that’s not me. I don’t feel like that. Because it’s such a gradual increase of the weight you don’t see the change in the mirror on yourself every day. And then when the photo is really the wake up call, where you [crosstalk 00:22:01] that realization. But even then, it’s hard to accept.

Marianne Harlow:

Yes. I would see my mom in the mirror often. It’s like, wait, no, I’m not ready for that.

Carole Freeman:

Oh wow.

Marianne Harlow:

But it’s also weird stuff like when I buy dog food and I’m hauling a 20 pound bag of dog food, it’s like, okay, so this is just from the store to the car and you were hauling three times that much every single day just to walk from the front door to the mailbox. Holy smokes, no wonder you feel so much better.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. The dog food one always gets me too because years ago out of high school I worked in grocery stores, and for whatever reason that always sticks in my head is like a really heavy thing. Because we had the 20 and 40 pound bags of dog food in the front of the grocery store. And to pick one of those up was always like, that’s a lot of weight. So that’s funny because in my mind I always think about that too, is like, oh three of those? Could you imagine strapping, duct taping three of those on your body and then walking around all day long?

Marianne Harlow:

Exactly. Lumpy and bumpy and-

Carole Freeman:

The same thing.

Marianne Harlow:

Holy smokes.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Oh wow. So here’s something I’ve never asked you. Have you ever thought about the difference in food savings? Like how much you were spending a year ago on food versus now?

Marianne Harlow:

I thought about it a bit, but not a whole lot. I’ve always said I can cut out a lot of other things besides food, so I’ve always bought relatively good quality food. But I probably waste a lot less than I used to. Hang out around the outside edge of the grocery store. People go, you go to Costco and you’re a single person, that’s crazy. But Costco has the best steaks and all that kind of thing, or the big blocks of cheese. And I bought myself a vacuum sealer and so I come home from Costco and I get my scale out and I just cut it into portions and vacuum seal it. And then I just write the weight on the outside of the bag. And when it’s all portioned it comes out of the freezer, it thaws really fast so it’s all ready to go. Which also helps making stupid decisions of, you know, in my past it was like, oh I don’t know what to eat. And so I’d run to the Wendy’s down the road. And salads were not what I was buying.

Carole Freeman:

Okay, so you’ve come back to help support everyone else on keto with me now. So you are now one of our peer support coaches and training to be a keto lifestyle coach. So inspiring others. You are amazing at all kinds of little tips and tricks. So you just threw one out, which has me thinking of this with the vacuum sealer. This is one I haven’t heard you say before. So I love that. That’s so great. Just buying in bulk, which saves money, and then just taking a little bit of time to portion stuff out into individual sizes. The vacuum sealer, I don’t have one of those, but now all of a sudden I want one, because it ends up saving you so much. But [crosstalk 00:00:25:43]-

Marianne Harlow:

You can get them not very expensive on Amazon. I think I only paid 25, $30 for mine. If I was to do it again, I’d maybe upgrade a little bit just because I think they probably function better. But the inexpensive ones work just fine. They seal it up. And the other thing I’ve discovered is that is really great when it’s time to go camping. I literally just open my freezer, because I usually just barbecue when I’m camping. And I have everything all portioned out. So it’s like I’m gone five days, I just pick out five meals. I have canned tuna, canned chicken, that kind of stuff that just stays in the camper. So I can be camping in a moment’s notice.

Carole Freeman:

Oh my gosh, we need to do a separate episode on keto camping tips.

Marianne Harlow:

Oh, that’d be fun.

Carole Freeman:

Let’s book that. Yeah. All right, you know what would be super fun, Marianne, is if I drove out and we did it right with your camp trailer.

Marianne Harlow:

Well that could happen.

Carole Freeman:

And then we should just go camping too.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah, maybe have campus stuff already planned, I’ll send you my schedule see if any of them come in. I have a spare bed, you can just move on in.

Carole Freeman:

Oh my gosh. Oh that would be great. Oh my gosh. Okay, so we’re going to do a sole separate keto camping tips tricks episode. That’s going to be so great. I can already envision. I want to go to Utah, actually. But anyways.

Marianne Harlow:

That was last fall.

Carole Freeman:

I know I missed that. What other tips do you have? I mean, and again, you’re so great. Like every coaching call you’re on you’ve got another tip you pull out. And I’m like, that’s so great. Let’s just do your top five keto food tips for success. Like making it fast and easy and simple. I mean, yeah, go ahead with other ones.

Marianne Harlow:

Got me on the spot now.

Carole Freeman:

I know. Just top of the mind. They don’t have to be your best, they could just be whatever pops in your head.

Marianne Harlow:

Well portioning things out is… Because then you make one mess. Well, like I have favorite recipes that are really easy, but they still take time and mess. So I’ll take chicken breasts and pound them so they’re relatively flat, but more importantly they’re even so they cook evenly and you don’t dry them out. But I’ll cook them all and then throw them in the freezer, throw them in the refrigerator. So it’s fast and easy to grab and go. On one of the calls I was on recently you were talking about a beef jerky that you really enjoyed when you were in Hawaii. So I got online and I found some sugar-free beef jerky, and it came in a larger container. And I just had little snack Ziploc bags, so I stood there on my scale and I just weighed out one ounce portions in the zip bags.

Marianne Harlow:

And so when I want something or I’m craving something salty, or whatever, I can just grab one of those and go. Or if I’m driving somewhere and I think, if I get hungry along the way, rather than taking nuts which is something that I’m not very trustworthy with. The beef jerky is very satisfying. The protein fills me up and gets me where I’m going and something that’s easily eaten on the road. So I like things like that. Costco has the little packs of salami and provolone. And that was on my big camping trip where we were in the car a lot, that was often lunch as we’re driving down the road. And my dog loves those too. Let’s see, other tips.

Carole Freeman:

Portioning out food. I’m putting vacuum sealer on there, I love that one.

Carole Freeman:

It sounds like too, stocking your fridge and pantry with quick and easy foods is another one. So you mentioned the canned tuna, the canned chicken. And then just the fact that you’ve got these portioned out foods already in your freezer. Those are all things that just make it quick and easy to [crosstalk 00:30:46]-

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah. And I think that’s part of eating to live instead of living to eat. Because it’s all tasty, but I’m not revolving around food all day long. I think that’s been really helpful. It’s like, you get in, prepare it and get out.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah, yeah. Keep it simple, quick and simple.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah. So this comes and goes, but sometimes I have pint canning jars that I got the plastic lids versus regular canning lids. And when I buy greens or salads or whatever, lettuce, I’ll chop it up and then I’ll just put it in the jars, and they seem to stay fresher. Where being single sometimes stuff like that will spoil before I get it all eaten.

Carole Freeman:

Well tell me more about [inaudible 00:32:03]. So you’re talking about the canning jars?

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah, just the little pint canning jars.

Carole Freeman:

And then what you mean by a plastic lid? What’s that?

Marianne Harlow:

Well, you can get them on Amazon. I’m an Amazon queen.

Carole Freeman:

Okay, okay.

Marianne Harlow:

They’re just screw top lids that fit on pint. You can buy pint ones or ones for quart jars. But pint size for me is a serving. You could put a cup of lettuce in there, a couple cherry tomatoes and onions or cucumbers or whatever. So if I’m doing cucumbers or anything that has a watery base, I put that in the bottom of the jar. And then the onions and then the lettuce is on the top. So when you have everything in, you have about a cup of lettuce, maybe a little bit more. And then all you have to do is put your dressing in and shake it up and you’re ready to go. Or pour it into a bowl, throw some protein on top of it and you’re ready to go. And you’re not standing in your kitchen chopping lettuce up.

Carole Freeman:

Okay, so there was a big trend for a while with the salad in the jar or meal in a jar thing. So it sounds like you’re doing something like that. And doing that with veggies. So you’re prepping those, but putting them in a jar is really good versus, and I’ve taught classes on this so I know exactly what you’re doing now. So if you put the things that are really watery in the bottom and because the jars are vertical they help separate the water from the lettuce that’s going to wilt really quickly if it’s sitting in water. And so-

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah, wilt or turn brown or whatever.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Usually we make salad in a big bowl, everything’s touching everything else. But if you put it in the jar, you can put cucumbers or tomatoes or other watery things in the bottom. And then things that have a little more hardy in the middle. Like actually whole cherry tomatoes could go there. And then when you put the lettuce on the top of it, it’s not touching the water and it will stay fresher for a week or more that way. [crosstalk 00:34:14]-

Marianne Harlow:

But I think-

Carole Freeman:

Oh go ahead.

Marianne Harlow:

I think, actually too, just being in a jar you have less air involved, which keeps it from turning brown. And I started it just because I’m inherently lazy. Chopping up all that stuff every single day, I got bored with it. So it’s like if I chop it up all at once. If I’m really paying attention, I’ll top up the lettuce and toss it in just a little bit of lemon juice and then that really helps it stay. It’ll stay in the fridge for like a week and a half.

Carole Freeman:

Nice. Well, and the other trick you can put your dressing on the bottom if it’s in something else that’s, for example, you could put the dressing in the bottom with the chicken or something like that. As long as it’s not touching the lettuce you can actually make the whole thing of pre ready salad and then just shake it up, like you said, right before you’re going to eat it too. But you could also just keep the salad dressing totally separate and put it on later. Very cool.

Carole Freeman:

Another one I didn’t even know you got out of your sleeve, but that’s great. I used to teach classes on how to make those, and I totally forgot about that, but that’s great. Excellent. All right, Marianne’s top five tips for making keto easy, and quick and easy. I love it. All right, we got five.

Marianne Harlow:

Oh yay.

Carole Freeman:

I wrote them down. Yeah. Pre portioning your food. Using the vacuum sealer. Stock your fridge or pantry with quick and easy keto foods. Keeping it quick and simple in meal prep. And yeah, each meal. And then five was doing the little veggie salads in a jar. I know you’ve got tons more, but we’ll stick with that for now. All right.

Marianne Harlow:

I’m going to have to think about it. Write things down as I do them.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Excellent. Well, oh my gosh. So much value. You have shared so much and so inspiring. Your transformation is very inspiring to others and you’re so full of information and tips. And it sounds like you’re finally feel like your whole life is a reflection of who you really are. And, well just living life to the fullest.

Marianne Harlow:

Well, I’m excited to do the peer coaching that in my professional world I did a lot of coaching. And so it’s fun to find a new outlet that I really believe in and help other people. I get excited about that.

Carole Freeman:

Oh, that’s excellent. So happy to have you. You’re such an awesome addition to our team and provide so much value to everything you touch. So I’m really honored to have you with us.

Marianne Harlow:

Thanks. I am enjoying being back in the fold.

Carole Freeman:

Yay. So anything else that you were hoping I would ask about or anything else that you want to share before we wrap this up?

Marianne Harlow:

Not that I can think of.

Carole Freeman:

All right.

Marianne Harlow:

Oh, one little thing I thought about this morning is my dog really likes keto too, because I’m kind of a sloppy cook. So when things fall on the floor, they’re always good things that she likes. Well, with the exception of the lettuce.

Carole Freeman:

Oh, well yeah. Yeah. Our pets can do a world of good health too by cutting out the carbs. Most prepared dog and cat food, unfortunately, is just filled with cheap carbohydrates. And just as us, they don’t do as well with that. And they do better with just real foods.

Marianne Harlow:

Yeah.

Carole Freeman:

Yeah. Well, Marianne, congratulations on all your success and getting your three legs of your success stool figured out. And I’m so glad that you reached back out to me and we get to hang out some more.

Marianne Harlow:

I’m glad too. So it’s a fun adventure and I appreciate all of the support and ideas and ways to get my brain to cooperate with going forward in a healthy direction.

Carole Freeman:

Excellent. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share with everyone. And thank you for being here. If you’ve all enjoyed this interview, give us a thumbs up. If you want to hear more of this, hit the bell, that’s what’s going to get you notifications for upcoming episodes. And thanks for watching everyone. We’ll see you next time.

Keto Chat Episode 117: Keto Diet Psychology Expert Interview

Carole Freeman, Certified Nutritionist, Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist, speaker, and comedian, specializes in a ketogenic diet coupled with behavioral psychology interventions to help people achieve lifelong weight loss. She  is a board Certified Ketogenic Nutrition Specialist through the American Nutrition Association and completed her master’s degree in Nutrition and Clinical Health Psychology at Bastyr University, and a Certification in Clinical Hypnotherapy from the Wellness Institute. After a disabling car accident in 2014, Carole discovered the healing power of the ketogenic diet to relieve her Chronic Regional Pain Syndrome, Post-Traumatic Hypopituitarism, and reverse metabolic syndrome.

Transcript:

Carole Freeman:
It’s going.

Brandy:
Okay. This is Brandy from [3 Health 00:00:27] and today I’m here with [Marlene Sexton 00:28:28] . She’s a psychotherapist and we are going to have a little chat with Carole Freeman. Carole, tell us about how you got involved in low carb and ketogenic diets and what you’re doing.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. My name is Carole Freeman and oh gosh, I’ve been passionate about psychology and nutrition for, I don’t know, 20, 30 years, probably. Probably goes all the way back to my first diet at 19 years old. I have multiple degrees from Bastyr University. I did an undergrad in nutrition and then I did a double masters in nutrition and clinical health psychology, and that was in my pursuit of trying to figure out how do we help people make long-term behavior change so that they can eat healthy diet in such a way that it would actually help them be optimally healthy. I’m really passionate about how nutrition affects the mind, but then also how the mind affects what we eat. And so getting that degree at Bastyr was my dream and it was a fantastic degree.

Carole Freeman:
However, I came out of school being trained in the health at every size model and positive psychology, which is all great. However, I had the belief that if we tried to put people on restricted diets, if we encouraged them to lose weight, we were actually doing more harm than we were good, that because there was no way to actually lose weight and keep it off, it was just much better, then, to help people learn to love themselves the way that they were and if we let go of all that diet mentality and accepted our bodies for what they were, then ultimately the belief was that people would make healthier choices and they would be able to eat mindfully and intuitively and just be at a healthier weight than they would if they tried to yo-yo diet and just keep gaining more weight.

Brandy:
Did you believe that or was that what you were taught?

Carole Freeman:
I did. I believed that. I mean, the health at every size model is based in research and I’m sure you know from the work you’ve done that it is a pretty common pattern that people diet, they lose weight and then they regain even more. I’ve since put everything together that I’ve been studying for so long to realize that it’s partially the dietary approach that most people take, but also then having the psychological support to be able to make long-term behavior change by addressing where cravings come from, natural appetite regulation, but also just behavior change in general.

Carole Freeman:
I came out of school having gained quite a bit of weight and was in denial or I was oblivious to the fact that I myself had metabolic syndrome when I graduated with this and I thought I was healthy and I was practicing nutrition, but I wasn’t creating a lot of big change in people. I mean, they liked the message of just love yourselves the way you are and let go of dieting, but I wasn’t creating a lot of big changes in people’s health.

Carole Freeman:
It took a horrible car accident. 2014, I was rear ended by a distracted driver. It was a five car chain reaction pile up. I suffered a brain injury and crush injuries to my legs. I developed something called chronic regional pain syndrome in my legs, which meant that the pain and swelling were so severe that I ended up bedridden as well as the brain injury led to post-traumatic hypopituitarism, which basically just meant I had a symptom list a mile long and the doctors were really stumped as to how to help me.

Carole Freeman:
Out of sheer desperation just to not be stuck in bed the rest of my life, I just kept searching for an answer. “What can help heal my brain?” And I remembered in grad school that we learned about this much about a ketogenic diet for epilepsy-

Brandy:
I was going to ask if it was ever even mentioned or taught to you guys at all.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, it was mentioned and it was in reference to like, “This is the diet that’s used to treat epilepsy,” and that’s about it. We didn’t learn anything about implementation or anything like that. And so I reasoned that if it worked for epilepsy, which is something that’s not quite right with the brain, perhaps it was something that was going to be able to help me heal my brain injury just so I could get out of bed. And it was remarkable because just within days of adopting it, the symptoms that had me bedridden were resolving. I had massive amounts of energy. The weight was just falling off as well as the chronic regional pain syndrome went into remission, which is something that is a progressive degenerative syndrome that happens where people just get worse and worse. And mine is in remission as long as I stay compliant with a keto low carb diet.

Carole Freeman:
It was the final piece that I had been missing in order to create the transformation that I’m so passionate about helping people recreate. I’ve been doing nothing but this for about the last three and a half years in my practice. It’s all virtual. I work remotely with people all around the world and I’m really passionate about integrating a way of following keto that does address the psychology as well. So I’ve got a starter program that’s a nine week comprehensive program and then I work with people longer term as well once they’ve gone through that initial training program.

Brandy:
Cool. So tell me a little bit about the metabolic syndrome. How much weight did you lose and how did that go?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Metabolic syndrome is, there’s five different criteria and if you meet three of those, that stamps you with that. It’s not considered as a disease is it? It’s more of a syndrome, right?

Brandy:
[inaudible 00:06:37] of things, yeah.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Yeah. So low HDL, high triglycerides, waist measurement for women 35 inches or greater, high blood pressure and high blood glucose. Am I getting those right?

Brandy:
Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
And so I met the low HDL and waist measurement and then the high triglycerides. My blood pressure was normal independent, actually it was really high with the post-traumatic hypopituitarism, it skyrocketed. And then my blood sugar was always, we never tested like A1C or anything like that. My blood sugar was still considered to be normal. So those are the three criteria I met. So the first six months of following a ketogenic diet, I lost 60 pounds and 10 inches off my waist. And so I no longer fit any of the criteria. Well, I think my HDL still struggles to be pretty low, but otherwise I didn’t meet any of the criteria besides that one.

Brandy:
Wow. That’s an amazing amount of weight loss and a big change in your metabolic situation. I’d like to go back a little bit to this year, because I think you were telling me that you had helped change a little bit of what was going on there at the cafeteria and dietarily for the campus.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. I mean, they have a great cafeteria there where, at the time when I was in school, it was a hundred percent vegetarian cafeteria and it was really old school vegetarian, which was like, rice and cheese was basically the foundation of most meals. So it wasn’t whole food based, but it was vegetarian and getting into the curriculum for all the degrees that they have there, there was nobody promoting that vegetarianism was the healthiest way to eat. And so I saw that disconnect there and I was like, “Why does the cafeteria not align with actually what’s being taught?” Because most students that came in as a vegetarian to one of the nutrition programs believing that was the healthiest way. Once they learned about things like B12 and how it’s really hard to meet a lot of your mineral needs as a vegetarian, they had a lot of awakening to that and a lot of them, during their course and training there, they were no longer vegetarian and starting to incorporate some animal proteins in there.

Carole Freeman:
The naturopathic program also didn’t promote that vegetarianism was the healthiest way to eat and so I saw that misalignment there. And so I formed a group on campus. I called it CHIP, Cafeteria Holistic Improvement Project I think is what we called it. And I wanted to be a conduit to change instead of, so there were groups that were just like, they would complain about it but nobody was ever doing anything. And so I started some monthly meetings and we just started a dialogue and it turned out that part of it was that their head chef at that time really believed in a vegetarian diet and he’d been there so long, they didn’t really want to rock the boat. And so we opened that dialogue and then there was a new, I don’t know, director of cafeteria services or something like that that came on board and then they started to incorporate some offerings that were animal protein based.

Carole Freeman:
It’s been seven years since I’ve graduated from there. I haven’t been on campus in a while. I have no idea what’s currently-

Brandy:
What’s going on? Yeah.

Carole Freeman:
… being served there. But that’s what happened during the time I was, I was there for five years getting all of the degrees that I did.

Brandy:
Okay. Cool. So you said in your program you incorporate both the keto and implementation of keto. Do you ever do different types of low carb or is it straight keto?

Carole Freeman:
Everyone starts out with a very similar approach to start with because the goal is to get them into ketosis as fast as possible and to minimize cravings and facilitate behavior change as quick as possible. During the course of the nine weeks, I teach them several things so that each person, with my guidance, that we’re finding a way that keto low carb fits their lifestyle, their needs. So I do start out everyone with a very similar approach, but it gets fine-tuned along the way to find what works for them and what’s going to be actually sustainable.

Carole Freeman:
I am working with a niche of people. It’s primarily women that have died their entire lives and they already are sold on keto. They want to follow a ketogenic lifestyle and everyone does get end up getting their own, you know, not everyone needs to be 20 grams of carbs or less per day for the rest of their lives. And that’s part of the education and teaching that I teach them is let’s figure out what actually works for you and what you need to do that’s going to be sustainable because yeah, some people don’t need to be strict forever. Some people can have all the health and sustainability from doing a lower carb approach. Part of that, too, is just the psychology of where somebody is, as well. Some people don’t do well with the gray area. For me that’s a slippery slope of well, a little this, a little that, a little more and then pretty soon I’m back to 300 grams of carbs a day. That’s part of it as well, is helping people figure out what fits with their personality and what is going to actually be sustainable for them. Some people do better with having black and white rules to follow than they do with like, ah, all foods fit, which is what I was doing before.

Brandy:
Right, right. Do people come to you on medications and things like that that need looking after and monitoring as they’re losing weight?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. I mean, yeah, sometimes people do. I know the ones to watch out for and so I will work with their doctor or instruct them. I’m sure you’re familiar that there aren’t necessarily a lot of doctors that are used to people being able to get off of their medications and so I empower them with some words to work with their doctors. So I always tell them it’s not within my scope of practice to tell you how to take your medication, how to stop taking it. What I have seen is that for this medication you’re on, this is something that we need to monitor very closely. You need to go see your doctor first, let him know this and ask him or her what that looks like, when is it that you need to change that and how frequently that. So I have them work with their doctor.

Carole Freeman:
Certain diabetes medications, blood pressure medications, those are the primary ones that need immediate adjustments. So that’s part of the screening I do is to make sure, what medications are you on? These are the ones that you’re going to need to work with your doctor to monitor the dosing. But that is their doctor that does that. And again, not everybody’s doctor is used to, I’ve had plenty of them that their doctor says, “Well, no, you can’t ever get off of this.” And so I said, “Well, that’s okay. So here’s how to approach that,” when they think that that’s going to happen. Because it’s normal. They’re not used to seeing people actually get off of medication. So that’s what I do with those.

Brandy:
Good. Any pushback from primary carers about what you’re doing? Or have you had patients go to their primary carer with great results and then they end up telling them that it’s dangerous and they shouldn’t be doing it?

Carole Freeman:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, there’s a lot of, I’ve referred people to other doctors that their doctor freaks out about what they’re doing, even though the labs and everything show how much better they’re getting. I’ll find another keto-friendly doctor and say like, “In the Seattle area here, we have Dr. Ted [Naman 00:14:58] .” So a lot of times I will refer people to go to him. And he says, “Well, why do people need my stamp of approval?” And I said, “Because their doctor tells them it’s dangerous and bad. They just need another person in a white coat to tell them it’s okay and then they’ll have peace of mind, right?” They’re not going to believe me over their doctor that’s telling them this is dangerous and so if I just have another doctor that can say, “Yeah, you’re doing great, everything’s healthy,” then that will help them give them some peace of mind.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. There’s a gamut, a continuum of the reactions of their physicians. Some of them are like, “Oh my gosh, wow, everything’s better. Whatever you’re doing, just keep doing it.”

Brandy:
That’s beautiful, too.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. And then there are some also that have said, “You should follow keto. I don’t know how to help you do that.” So they’re seeking out somebody to help direct and guide that for them. Then, yes, there are the other ones that like, “Wow, your labs all got better, but this is dangerous and it’s going to kill your liver.” You know, all these myths and things like that. And so then they say, “Well, even though that got better, you can’t do that, that’s not good.” And so that’s part of where I’ll give them some books and videos and research presentations and things like that to help them understand that, yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of misunderstanding out there about keto and if doctors haven’t actually implemented or seen a lot of their patients follow it and get those improvements, they have beliefs and misconceptions about what is going to happen.

Carole Freeman:
Even for me, when I first started it, I was seeing a naturopathic doctor and I embarked on it on my own. Two weeks into my keto diet, my inflammation markers and my CRP dropped 62% just in two weeks. And my doctor that I was seeing at that time said, “No, you can’t follow a ketogenic diet long-term because it’s inflammatory because you’re eating all that red meat and bacon. So this is not going to be,” and I said, “But my labs just showed that my inflammation dropped 62%. Why?” “Well, I don’t know, but,”

Brandy:
Thank you. I’ll be seeing somebody else now.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandy:
I think we should form our own Washington state low carb, keto-friendly directory.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Brandy:
Being listed on other more, well, there’s even international, like Diet Doctor, but I’m listed on the Obesity Medicine Association and Low Carb USA obviously. But we need something that’s more central to the area, I think. That would be nice.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah.

Brandy:
Because it’s really hard. It’s so disappointing when people get such good results. It’s very undermining when they hear from their primary carer that “Yeah, everything’s getting better, but I don’t want you to do it anymore.” Just so confusing.

Carole Freeman:
Right, right. Everything got better.

Brandy:
Yeah. I also noticed that you are trained in hypnotherapy.

Carole Freeman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brandy:
Do you do much of that or how does that work with your practice?

Carole Freeman:
Yeah, I picked that certification up in the middle of my grad school and part of it was just due to, so, my psychology degree, basically the goal of that degree is to train me to be a mental health counselor and to go on and do the advanced, what is it, like 2,000 or 3,000 hours supervised hours to be able to get that licensure, but I never wanted to go that route. I just wanted to have the psychology, I wanted to have the counseling skills and knowledge to be able to just help people be able to make behavior change for diet-focused, you know, healthful food changes.

Carole Freeman:
And so I knew I didn’t want to go and pursue the licensure. I just wanted to have that training. And so about halfway through my coursework I was just still baffled about, what are we learning that actually helps people make change? Because we were trained that you might take years of therapy and here’s the different approaches you could do. And my own experience before that of attending counseling and therapy and always feeling like we’d go in and we’d talk about some really painful stuff and I leave after an hour just completely emotionally wrung out and crying and upset. And it was like, how is this helping? And I remember asking one of my professors at one time, like, “So how exactly does psychotherapy, how does it help people make change?” And he says, “That’s a really good question.” I was like, “What?”

Carole Freeman:
So something popped up on Facebook where somebody was talking about doing hypnotherapy training and I thought, “Oh my gosh, this seems like a really good fit. It’s another tool in my toolbox of being able to help people make change.” So I did that training in one of the summers while I was in grad school and it’s a special hypnotherapy training specifically for people that have advanced psychology degrees. So it’s not just a online program. It was actually an immersive six-week program that we did with all either a licensed psychologist or they let me into the program because I was completing coursework in that. And it’s great because it’s actually really aware of the things that we need to be mindful of when working with people on a deeper level of psychology.

Carole Freeman:
So I picked that up as, okay, this is what’s going to help people be able to make change. I do really like the hypnosis because it’s a way of helping people make real deep work, but at the end of the session you can actually suggest, you’re going to wake up and you’re going to feel happy and content and complete and closed. And so people wake up feeling or they come out of a session feeling really positive and instead of like in tears and crying, like sometimes therapy can be when you’re working on some really deep stuff. And so in the beginning, before I had my keto tool, I was doing one-on-one hypnosis in a clinic. My original business name was Hypnotic Nutrition and I did hypnosis for nutrition.

Carole Freeman:
And it was frustrating for me, actually, because people came to me wanting to lose weight and I was still of the orientation that that was a bad thing, that we shouldn’t have a goal of trying to lose weight. And so it was frustrating because that’s what people wanted to pay for, but it didn’t align with what my beliefs were at that time. And hypnosis all by itself is not a magic wand. People have this idea that if I just get hypnotized, I’ll lose the weight and I don’t have to make any other changes. It doesn’t work that way, and so that also wasn’t, all by itself was not the magic wand.

Carole Freeman:
The training I’ve had in hypnosis and the way that the brain works at a subconscious level does have influence over my approach and the psychology thing. Occasionally I will do some one-on-one sessions with some of my VIP clients, but it’s not a primary thing that I’m doing actively week in and week out with people. But it does have a big influence on what I do teach my clients and the approach that I do have. A lot of it has to do with the subconscious motives of the brain and how we can influence behavior change at a subconscious level beyond our awareness.

Brandy:
Yeah. Cool. Do you ever get any clients that you think you’re doing good work with them and they’re on keto but they just don’t seem to be getting the results that you’d expect and think that they could use medication to help with things like appetite or cravings?

Carole Freeman:
I haven’t had anyone that has been in that boat at all. All the people that I’ve worked with, when they’re following the program and the outline that I have, all have fantastic results. So I don’t know. I’ve not worked with everyone in the world. I tend to work with women that are somewhere between 50 to 100 pounds overweight. I think that there may be probably people that are more than a hundred pounds overweight, I’m going to guess, probably are ones that would do well with some kind of appetite regulation medication. I don’t know if that’s what you’ve seen or not. But I tend to work with people, then again, that are in that 50 to 100 pounds overweight and I think people that are of a higher weight have a different brain chemistry, different food addiction going on that probably could benefit from that. But that’s not been my experience or at least the people that I’ve worked with.

Brandy:
Okay, good. And so your program is how long?

Carole Freeman:
Well, the program that I have currently is, the initial one is nine weeks, but I’m working on a complete revision of that. So probably coming out in the next couple of months, it will be like a six-week starter program and then a long-term support a year at a time after that. That’s likely what the change is going to be. because I found that the training that I have that’s nine weeks right now, people get through about four weeks of the material and then that gets them going. And a lot of them, the feedback is like, “Well, I haven’t finished the other modules yet, but what I’ve got already has been so great and helped me get started with this.” So it may be that we do a four to six week starter program and then we have an advanced program that follows that for more long-term stuff. I’m in the process of revising all of that currently.

Brandy:
Okay. I met you through the keto Meetup group, right? So tell us about how that started and what it is and who’s involved and who’s welcome.

Carole Freeman:
Yeah. In the Seattle area, we do have a keto Meetup group. We’ve gotten better at having a monthly meeting. I started more than a year ago, but it just never really got a lot of traction. It was interesting because we had quite a few group members in our Facebook group, but when it came to actually meeting up, even though the group is about meeting up, it was always hard to get people to actually come out. I don’t know why that is. But after low carb USA that we’ve had in Seattle in May of 2019 we actually had a group of people that were much more interested in having regular meetings and so we’ve done, what, three of them now and it’s open to the public. We’d love to have anyone that’s interested in low carb, following it or just learning more. Practitioners as well. We’ve got psychologists and nurse practitioners and well, myself. Certified keto nutrition specialist. Yeah. So anyone is welcome and the best way to get that, if you want to join our Facebook group, we can put some links below, right? I’ll send you those information. Or we’ve also got an email list for people that we send out information about those meetups, too.

Brandy:
Cool. Well, it’s awesome to meet another passionate keto practitioner out there. We need to multiply ourselves, I think, by a lot to help people, but we’re doing good work and you’re doing good work. Appreciate it. Where can people find you and get to know more about your program and what you’re doing?

Carole Freeman:
All over social media and the internet. You can find me as Keto Carole. Carol has an E on the end. That’s the fancy French spelling of Carol. So Keto Carole. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram, and my website is ketocarole.com and that’s how anybody can find me out there.

Brandy:
And YouTube, right?

Carole Freeman:
Oh, yes. YouTube. Yeah. My YouTube series is Keto Chat. If you search for Keto Chat, you’ll see I’ve been doing that series for about three years now. I don’t know. We’ve got maybe 120 episodes.

Brandy:
Cool. Good job. I appreciate you being on and sharing your experience.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s great to know you and yeah, we need to band together and multiply the good that’s happening from this.

Brandy:
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. All right. I appreciate your time. Have a good one.

Carole Freeman:
Thank you so much. You’re welcome. Bye.

Brandy:
Bye.

Marlene Sexton:
Bye bye.

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