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Keto Coaching for Women | KCL45

Keto Coaching for Women

Do women need a different version of keto than men? After working with 1,000s of women over the last 7 years, what are the things I’ve seen that women need to succeed on keto that differs from what men need? Join Carole as she talks about the emotional, hormonal, nutritional, and community needs of women for long-term success on keto.

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Transcript:

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Carole Freeman: Hey there. How are you doing today? We’re live everyone. Welcome to the show. I’m by myself today and solo, no guest cohost. I’m excited to be here. Hey, tell me where you’re joining from type of comment. Let me know. You’re here. The show is interactive. And you went on the shows about today. Are you a woman trying to lose weight on keto?

Have you read every blog post watched every video out there by, oh, all the male keto gurus. There’s a lot of them. And you just felt like something was off. Like they were missing the boat and you wonder if women actually need a different approach to keto than. This episode is for you. Stick around and learn the three things that I’ve seen for seven years of coaching, thousands of women, the three things that women specifically need to succeed on keto.

So welcome everyone to keto chat live. We’ve got a thumbs up already. I love all the interaction. So join the show. Let me know where you’re joining me from. I can tell I have people like watching, but I can’t see who you are until you actually comment. So let me know. You’re here. Welcome you to the show here.

Keto Coaching for Women

Keto Coaching for Women with Carole will give you knowledge about emotional, hormonal, nutritional, and community needs of women.

Welcome to keto chat. Live everyone. I’m your host Carole Freeman. Master’s in nutrition and clinical health psychology. I’m a certified clinical hypnotherapist and also am a board certified keto nutritions specialist. I specialize in helping women 40 plus follow a keto diet for sustainable weight loss.

Now the part the lawyers want to hear the show’s meant for educational and entertainment purposes only it is not medical advice nor intended to diagnose. Prevent treat or cure any condition whatsoever. If you have any questions or concerns related to your specific medical condition, please seek out the care of your personal health.

Healthcare. Professional. Nancy is here from San Diego. Welcome Nancy. So glad you’re here. She’s one of our regulars here for the show. All right. Hey, if you feel so inclined support the show, if you’re watching on YouTube, you can do a Superchat. I’ll give you a shout out. And if you’re on a Facebook, a review of the show is really helpful too.

And you’re listening later on any of our podcast platforms, give us a review five stars if you enjoyed it. And that helps out get more get the word out to more people. Just a little. Personal note, how are y’all doing, how y’all doing? I have my next comedy show is going to be in Ahwatukee, which is an area of Phoenix, Arizona May 26th, 2022.

So if you’re in the area, come out and have some laughs. It’s a good time out there. It’s a great show. And we’ve got a lot of local comedians on the show out there. Some really great, funny people that are actually friends of mine. So I have a new little segment for the show today. I often get free product samples.

Companies want me to review they’ll give me a sample of a product for my honest review. And I’ve got a few of them I’ve been sitting on because if you’re a woman, you might appreciate the fact that oh, if I’m going to do something on video, it takes a little more effort, got to actually shower today, comb my hair, put a little bit of makeup on.

And so I thought, why don’t I actually just wrap this up in the show? So let me know if you like this segment or not. I’ve got One, one company I’m going to talk about proper goods sent me some soup to try. So I’m going to tell you about the two ones that they sent me, and I’m going to chat about salad and go.

That’s a local fast food salad restaurant. That’s here in the Phoenix area. I’m going to share with you my experiment with them for this last week. And. And then I’ll tell you what’s coming up next week. Cause I’ve got another product coming next week. So proper. Good. Let’s talk about proper. Good. Okay.

This is just the labels from the soup, cause I already ate the soup and I’ve just been procrastinating on doing the review. And so this is a new company. Proper good. They provide. So imagine hanging down from here is a kind of a plastic pouch that the product is in. And so they have a full line of products.

Most of them are not keto friendly. Okay. So I’ll just put that caveat in to start with they’re a company that they seem to be trained to, to check all the boxes for every dietary preference. So they have some soups that are vegan and some that are let me see if they’ve got it on here.

Gluten-free I don’t remember on their website, everything they’re trying to beat everybody, but basically two of them are keto friendly or potentially keto friendly and everything else on their site is not okay. So if you go and look what they’ve got going on, they’ve got carby things. They’ve got oatmeal and other soups that are not keto friendly.

So just keep that in mind. If you go look at the website, this is not a keto company, but as a company that has a couple of products that are keto friendly. So right now you only order from their website. They don’t have it. They’re not selling it in stores anywhere cause they’re brand new. And, but let me tell you about the pros.

So the two products that are keto friendly, creamy chicken soup and broccoli, cheddar soup. Now these are really high quality ingredients. So the things I liked about these were very high quality ingredients, not garbage in here. And so for example, the creamy chicken. Is chicken bone broth. So that’s one of the cool things, as well as they’re using bone broth as a basis that are just water and vegetable broth chicken heavy cream.

Okay. So that’s rare in a soup. Usually it’s going to be some fillers and starches and things like that. So actual, real cream they’ve got their onions carrots, coconut oil celery, garlic xantham. Carrot fiber. That’s just a little thickener in there and sea salt, Rosemary extract. So cool is Rosemary extract is actually a very natural preservative and Rosemary extract is very antimicrobial antibacterial.

And so they’ve done a really good job at using completely natural ingredients in here. Black pepper chives and parsley. So impressive clean list of ingredients in there. Very high quality. Probably the problem is that to scale this kind of a company, typically the ingredients get cheap. And if they ended up getting bought out by another company, they’re gonna end up having to put cheaper ingredients in there.

So right now they’ve really impressively quality ingredients that are in there. So the nutrition breakdown. Oh my gosh. I’m going to have to put these on I’m 51. Now everyone I’ve tried. Try as little as possible to read these, but that’s tiny. All right. So we’ve got 360 calories in one pouch, and that is 27 grams of fat.

This is really small 11 grams of carbs. Total three grams of that is fiber and 19 grams of protein. As a one serving this, if you’re okay. This could work as a, if you’re doing two meals a day, because the carb count in this is high enough that it wouldn’t be something that I would recommend for somebody doing three meals a day 11 grams of carbs that’s problem with any.

Product is it’s hard to keep the carbs low when you’re trying to fill up a pouch of food. And so the the carbs are a little high, so you’d have to have this as a two a day, but with only 19 grams of protein in here, you’re going to need some more protein to add in there to make a full meal. So this could be like your side dish to go with some other protein that you’re having.

And but just know that all by itself, as a single meal, it’s not going to quite fit for what I recommend for my clients or what I see working. But again, the ingredients are really quality. The taste was really great. These are really well created. I do think that the sodium intake, the sodium content in these is too low.

I definitely had to put a lot more salt in these and especially somebody who’s on keto, your taste buds want a lot more salt. And so it’s only got, let’s see what. Let’s see sodium. Oh, six 60 milligrams. So that’s about a quarter of a teaspoon in a whole, one of these. I recommend at least another quarter to a half, a teaspoon of salt in these to make them taste phenomenal.

But again, thumbs up as a good starter place. And if you’re somebody who just wants to have some soups on hand, oh, they’re also, they don’t need to be refrigerated. So just in the container, you put them in your cupboard indefinitely. You can either just pour it into a pan to heat it up.

Or you can boil the pouch in some water and also they recommend, or they suggest that you can just tear the top off of the pouch and put it in the microwave and heat it up in that container there. So that is the creamy chicken has actually much more protein in it than the broccoli cheddar.

So let me read the nutrient breakdown on this. And so this one of only 250 calories for one pouch. So it’s a hundred calories or 110 calories less than the other one. It is 20 grams of fat, 10 total grams of carbs with three grams of fiber, only seven grams of protein in this one. So the protein and this one is just coming from the cheese that’s in here because there’s no actual other protein source in here, probably some of the, from the bone broth.

So we’ve got a chicken bone broth Broccoli heavy cream onions, carrots, coconut oil, cheddar cheese, garlic xantham gum natural cheese flavor. Buttermilk protein or I’m sorry, buttermilk power, butter, natural flavors, natural cheese flavors, sea salt, Rosemary extract, white pepper, turmeric and paprika.

So again, this one’s very low protein, and so this would be a great side dish for some of the protein sources, same thing with this one, really high quality ingredients, very tasty. And I do, I would recommend. A lot more salt added to it for all the flavor blooming and a, this would be a great side dish again, with more protein added to it.

Yeah. So any questions about any questions, folks about proper? Good. So thank you proper. Good for sharing that with me again, very high quality. I really enjoyed them. Miss the brand name joined late. So the brand and this is proper good. And again, the whole company has a long line of pouched food.

So soups and things like. And but not everything that they make is keto friendly. So only two of their products are keto friendly. That’s the ones that they sent me for review very high quality ingredients very tasty. Again, I would recommend that these are a side dish with more protein and also add more salt to them.

The carb counts, Nancy, each of them, one of them is 10 grams. One of them is 11 grams total. So they would be something that you’re doing a two a day meal plan. To stick with 20 total carbs, or you could cut each of these in half and have a small portion of it and add them to some more protein. Yeah.

All right. Also I wanted to share. Experiment. I did last week with there’s a local it’s like a fast food place, but it’s only salads. That’s here in the Phoenix area. I’ve been down here two years and I had not yet tried them. And so the place is called salad and go. And so I’m pretty sure this is only a Phoenix thing, but Nancy.

Oh, actually the answer you moved from San Diego. Didn’t you let me know if there’s any of these in your area. But I did an experiment this last week. I was supposed to go grocery shopping on Saturday, set myself up for success, but it was like, you know what, I’m going to try that salad and go place and just check it out and see if this will work for a meal a year.

A year, no, a week of meal prep for me. So this place has all salads and you can completely customize them and they have some pre-made versions. You can still customize everything on those. And then they have a build your own type of salad place or salad combo. And they’re the proteins. They offer our chicken grilled chicken.

They’re grilled chicken with some Buffalo sauce on it. Tofu. No protein or avocado, literally on their menu, you can choose avocado. That’s not a protein folks and it tasty. And maybe if you want. Use this as a, just a solid basis aside and use your own protein that would work. And so what I did is I went and got five salads and they have the option to do extra protein.

So most of them I did do extra protein cause there’s their standard amount of protein on them ends up being about 19 or 20 grams of protein. And I’m typically eating two meals a day. So I need to have at least 40 grams of protein per meal. And I found that again, this is the first time trying these and I found that the amount of lettuce that they give.

Way too much, way more than I would eat in one sitting. And that’s kind what the filler is, but they’ve got a lot of different variety of toppings and things like that. So I went with five of their pre-made salad combos, made a couple of adjustments on them. Double the protein on all of them. And I found that they, most of them portion size wise, we’re about two meals for each salad I got and the standard salad without the double protein is $5 and 76 cents.

And you can get two dressings for that. It’s an unbelievable bargain. And if you do the standard lettuce amount standard salad, and then you just double the protein up, it ends up still being less than $8 for the double protein. And so it was, I ended up buying five salads and they were the equivalent of two meals, a piece.

So I got 10 meals for less than $40. It was pretty cool. And the dressings on the side, which is what you really need to have if you don’t want your lettuce, To garbage. And so I basically I’m, today is Thursday. I got these on Saturday last week, I’m down to my last salad. And so it’s done. It’s done well.

It’s served its purpose. I actually got pretty tired of just chicken though. So chicken and Buffalo chicken are the only proteins that I would have. And I got pretty tired of that. So I’ve got some other proteins that I’ve swapped in and out. And I think for next time, maybe I’ll do some. The avocado is the protein.

So actually no for the same price, you can get the chicken. So I would think I would get that, hold it on the side, maybe rotate in some other proteins for myself. So anyways, it was a hit, it was a good, a big success. And I’ll tell you, I’ve been, it’s been easy to stick with keto for the week because I set myself up for success with those meals.

Every time I opened my fridge, I’m like, oh, I’ve got these salads I can choose from that are A good dose of protein on there. And Facebook user, I don’t know who this person is because they don’t have their name on there. So the streaming platform that I use, unless you’ve given it permission to share your name, it will only show you a Facebook user.

So if you want to remain private yeah. That’s just fine. If you’d like to share who you are, what your name is. You’re welcome to type that in the chat as well, too. Sounds cool. I’ll see if they have anything like that in this state. And yeah, so the proper good is something that you can order online, delivered anywhere in the United States, I assume.

And then yeah. Salad and go is going to be a Phoenix thing as far as I know. Next week what’s Kathy. Hi, Kathy. How are you doing? Welcome to the show. Glad you’re here. So up next, I found, I, again, I’ve lived in Phoenix for two years and I just found out about this local company called the Sapiens Kitchen and they do paleo and keto meals.

They actually have a restaurant and they do meal delivery service. I only found out about this because there’s a local keto group here that said. Ask some question. And then this company said, Hey, check us out. And I was like, I’m going to go check you out. And they do this meal delivery service and the meals look really great.

Keto Coaching for Women

Keto Coaching for Women with Carole will give you knowledge about emotional, hormonal, nutritional, and community needs of women.

I’m going to assume that the veggie portions are maybe a little too high in carbs, but they offer the option to order separate proteins all by themselves. So I ordered every single meal combo that they had as a keto option. And I think off the top of my head, that might be six of them. And I ordered all the other separate proteins that they sell as well.

And so this is going to be my experiment for next week. They deliver it to my zip code and so they come next Wednesday. So the next, our next show that we’ve got, I will have had at least a couple of the meals to be able to review for you. So that’s coming up next week, everyone. So let me know if you liked this segment where I review products that I’ve been sent for sampling and review again, if you’re just joining us.

I often get contacted by companies that say, Hey, we’ve got this thing where you try it for an honest review. And if it’s something that at least at a glance and ingredients that they’ve got is something that I would possibly recommend for my clients. I’m happy to do and I thought, why not wrap it into the show here?

Glad you all are here. All right. So you’re ready for the topic of the show. This today’s episode is about the three things that women need to succeed on keto. And again, this is my experience. Next week is my set. Oh, how many fingers? Seven year anniversary of my keto journey. Can you believe it? I can’t believe it’s been a long seven years, everyone.

And so I’ve literally worked with thousands of women. In that time. And I’ve noticed that they actually have different needs than men have. And in the very beginning of my journey, I didn’t think that was true. I was like, nah, it doesn’t matter. The same keto approach can work for men and women. You don’t need any difference.

But I found that women actually have three specific things. There’s three specific types of support that they need that is different than most men. Thank you, Kathy. I’m getting the congratulations. Thank you so much. All right. So who wants to hear the three things you want to say here? Three things I’ll give you I’ll name three of them, but I’m going to go a little bit deeper into what I mean by each of those as well.

So one thing that women need most women need that’s different than most men on keto is that they need emotional support. They also need hormonal support and they need community support. And again, this isn’t. This doesn’t apply to every single person, but in general, again, the last seven years I’ve been doing this, the thousands of women I worked with and a few men I’ve worked with a few men is that women need those three things.

And I’m going to go into a little bit deeper about what I mean by those and what that looks like, why they need that and so on. And so let’s talk about the emotional, real support. First. Now women need. For their emotions. We are a little more feeling, people, emotional people in general, and we need support for whatever comes up on this journey.

Food means a lot of different things to us. We. Our caretakers. We show love with food. We receive love with food and we put a lot of work and effort into care-taking for there. Other people around us. And a lot of our emotions and feelings are wrapped up in what we eat. And most of the ladies that I’m working with have historically put themselves last.

They always care for everyone else first and their needs come last and they prioritize all of the funds for the rest of their family and the well-being of the rest of their family. And then they also feels guilty about ever spending any money on themselves. And except for, they tend to be the primary food shoppers, the fi primary food preparers.

That’s not always the case, but that tends to be more so with women than men. They end up because they don’t want it. They feel guilty. If they spend money on themselves, they still feel guilty. If they do anything special for themselves, they’re not spending all their time to take care of their family.

They end up that food ends up being the one thing they give themselves permission to spend money on. Cause that’s just the food budget. That’s for everybody. Nobody’s going to notice that. And so we ended up using food to cope with feelings and emotions, and it can be very effective food.

Especially high carb foods can help us feel very numb, avoid or dissociate from uncomfortable feelings. And also it can be something that we use to celebrate how we express feelings. It’s how we have a good time and it works until it doesn’t work. And a lot of ladies I’m working with are okay, this isn’t working anymore.

I want to do something different. I want to learn different techniques and. So let me know. Is that something that resonates with you? Are you like a lot of the ladies that I’m working with where food ends up being the one area that you’ll allow yourself to spend more money on, and it’s the one thing that you feel less guilty about using to help yourself cope and soothe your feelings?

So women, they need to understand that’s what’s going on. So they need support for their emotions. They need empathy for how they’ve lived their lives and. When they’re at the point where they’re ready to do something different instead of using food to cope with things as they need help being able to develop their emotional intelligence and the whole set of skills that most of us never learned about how to actually have feelings, identify them, validate them and not need to numb out or avoid or sooth our feelings just.

And so this is develops over time. It takes work to develop your emotional intelligence. And so that’s what I mean by women need that emotional support. So that’s number one that women need different than what men need on keto is they need help and support for their emotions. All right.

Number two. Hormonal support. And this is two different things, actually. So one is going to be during their PMs time. So their pre-menstrual time they need I’ve found that some women, their, this isn’t true for all of them, but some women are very vulnerable at that time. And I’ll talk about why. And then the other part of hormonal support is something more recently I’ve learned from the doctor that I refer a lot of my clients to is.

Our hormones are very sensitive about feeding times and also about amount of protein that we have. And so intermittent fasting may not be the best option for women and trying to fast and try to get down to two meals or only one meal a day or fasting day or two a week or three days a week. It may not actually be the best thing for women.

So let’s talk about each of these separately too. Pre-menstrual time and. That part of our cycle, where our body is building up our uterus, it’s getting ready for a, the body hopes. It’s going to have a pregnancy it’s preparing for it every month. It doesn’t know if that’s in your cards or not, or if that’s your priority, not your body just goes through that cycle every month.

And so basically it’s a building phase, right? So your body is building up that organ, your uterus, and it needs lots and lots of nutrients to do that, especially things that are blood building. So Chinese medicine does a really good job at looking at this as that’s a building time of blood building phase.

And so things like red meat very highly nutritious foods are what your body. And often what happens during this time is that women feel some of the women I work with and I’ve noticed that not everybody struggles with this, but some people have a much more ravenous period in their pre-menstrual time than others.

And basically it’s because your body needs lots of nutrients. It needs calories, nutrients. Red meat or the oil iron and things that are in red meat. And so we get hungry or in that time, how many of you have that pre-menstrual time where you’re just like craving carbs. You want lots of food. And some of my clients ended up having really struggling during this time.

And so for them, what we want to do is actually that time when that kicks in that extra hunger that you’ve got, you want to honor your. You want to feed it? You want to nourish, you want to reassure that your going to feed it, what it needs. So focus on very nutrient rich foods. Don’t put any limitations on them.

So for example, I really recommend a lot of red meat during this time for most women, because it is something that contains all the nutrients that you need to build up a healthy uterus. And it doesn’t work to just ignore this if you’re like I don’t want it to grow. So I’m just not going to eat it.

Your appetite. Overpowering everything else. And so a Facebook user crave chocolate and red meat every month. Yeah. I’ll just say don’t fall for the traps. So there’s some people out there in the internet, that’ll say oh, you need chocolate because it has magnesium in it. No, that’s not what your body’s.

If you’re, if you were craving chocolate, you could eat pure. Unsweetened cocoa powder and that tastes terrible. It’s the sugar, your you’re craving and your body associates chocolate with the sugar. So that’s why it’s craving that red meat is great. Eat as much as you possibly can. Just know that what the sugar craving is doing is that it’s wants that insulin spike from the high carbs, the high sugar foods.

So that’s very building, it actually causes your body. Build things and build up and retain fat and fluid and things like that as well in anticipation of that, a nice, healthy, juicy uterus forming. And so I instruct my clients at that time to have on hand as much of the. Your favorite protein sources you possibly can indulge.

This is the time to indulge in, you still want to stay with keto friendly things. So keep the carbs low, but all the other foods that are your favorites have lots of them on hand don’t limit any of them and just treat it as your feast time. You need to feed your body. You need to nourish it.

And this week we’ll pass. And then you can go back to your focus with trying to reduce your intake and lose fat as a primary goal. So you’ll get three weeks out of the four of the months that you get to do that. But for the women that is, this is again, this isn’t for everybody that they struggle with this, but some of them do and that they do, we got to feed the body, we got to nourish it.

We got to honor what it’s telling you. And then the other three weeks of the month that we can go forward with with the. Facilitating fat loss in your body. And so Facebook user, and I can’t tell if this is still all Kathy, cause all it shows is just Facebook user. So this might be Kathy or might be somebody else, but what are your post-menopausal recommendations?

Yeah. So that kind of fits with the next one. I’ve got the next one for hormonal support is both for women that are still menstruating, but also post-menopausal women as well. Is that intermittent fasting? May not actually be the best thing for women’s hormones. And so again, these are the three different types of support that I found that women need in order to succeed on keto.

The we’re on the second one here, which is hormonal support. So intermittent fasting. So it turns out that women’s hormones are much more sensitive nutrient wise than men are. So for example, men can eat one meal a day, skip a day of eating and their hormones don’t get tanked. For the most part, women are much more sensitive and they need to eat not all day long, but regular intervals.

So for most of the women that I’ve worked with two or three meals a day ends up being optimal, but. Not going to be a benefit to trying to eat less times during the day, cut down to one meal a day. And it actually may cause disruption to. Thyroid and other hormone production. And so prioritizing, so this is again, recommended for post-menopausal as well.

Number one, prioritize protein. You need to get at least 80 grams of protein a day, and that’s on the baby minimum side for women. Most women that I’ve worked with need a lot more than that. A hundred, 120 grams a day is going to be more optimum. So be protein centric in your meals. That this is a hormonal support.

Okay. So protein, rich foods, especially natural ones. The ones that they, as they grow in nature, they actually tend to come with the most vitamins and minerals that our body needs and in the form that we need. So protein centric and eat that first at each of your meals. If you can’t. That much protein in and two meals.

You need to have three meals a day. So this is again, recommendation for post-menopausal and for pre premenopausal women. And this is ends up being our first step in, in meal planning is how am I going to get enough protein in each of my meals per day, and however many meals a day. You need to have that in order to achieve that goal.

So again, intermittent fasting for women may not be the best thing for their hormones. And so we’re looking at when I’m working with my clients, we’re looking at different labs and things like that in conjunction with the doctor that I have them work with and to optimize hormonal health. So that’s number two thing that I found that women need in order to succeed.

So you down keto and the number three thing that I’ve found that women need to succeed on cue. Is community support. And again, this is two layers. So each of my three points have two things underneath them. And so the community support part of this is like I talked about a little bit earlier is that women are the caretakers, the organizers, the feeders in our community.

They need somebody that recognizes that, and that can support them in that role on an ongoing basis, instead of saying, Nope, you just need to stop being who you are. You need to stop being the community hub of your family. How can we help them do keto in a way that they can still honor that role that is meaningful?

And the other part of the community support is not only helping honor what the women’s role is in their own community is that they need community support of other successful keto people. And so they need loving, compassionate sisters that are on their keto journey, cheering them on for success.

And part of this as well is going to be that mirror neuron support. So if you’re a follower of the show, you’ve heard me talk about that before. Humans actually all animals copy the behavior of other animals that they hang out with. And our brains are wired this way. We have specific neurons in our brain called mirror neurons that copy the behavior of other things that we see.

And so this is how, birds can all fly in a flock together. They just copy the behavior of the bird in front of them. This is if you’ve ever seen those adorable videos where one animal gets raised by another type of animal, and then they adopt their behavior. That’s what’s happening is that their brain sees that and it just copies up behavior.

I saw, when did I see the other day? It was a a goat that had been raised by a dog. And so then it had these dog like jumping around anyways. It was very cute. It was adorable. So if we want to be successful on keto in our regular community of people is not keto. And you keep falling off in social situations.

Guess what, there’s a way to offset that is to, by having a community of successful keto people, keto sisters, that you’re hanging out with so that your brain can copy their behavior. So this is why. For when I work with my clients. So we have group support, we have zoom calls where people can see each other, they get motivated, they can hear the success, but they get that mirror neuron activation as well.

That helps their brain go, oh, I’m copying the behavior of these ducks, these geese, these lemmings, these these sheep or. People there they’re keto sisters in there. Copying that. So again, just to recap, I’ve found that women need three things different than men. And again, some of the men that I worked with, actually, they end up their personality type is one that does well with this type of support as well.

So these are the three things that I found that the women that I’ve worked with needed that are different than what men need. So they need emotional support, both just for empathy and support of their emotions. Help with developing their emotional intelligence so that they can learn other ways of coping with life, rather than using food to cope and Sue their emotions and feelings.

They need hormonal support, both those for premenopausal women for PMs support, but also then exploring how many times a day is going to be best nourishing their body to not hormonally signaled their body. That. They’re starving and they don’t have enough nutrients to be healthy. And then the third part again, is the community support.

So both support for their lifestyle and honoring their role in their own community in their lives. And also then having a community of supportive keto, successful sisters that are cheering them on and activating their mirror neurons in a positive way. All right. How are y’all doing? Questions.

Which, which were those resonates with you? Have you been trying keto on your own and are you getting all three of those met in your life? Is it something that’s, you’ve got a big aha where you’re like, ah, that’s, what’s missing. That’s what I haven’t been getting. Correct.

Now’s the time the show. I want you to share your aha with me about what you’ve learned so far on the show. Give me a comment I can see. We’ve got quite a few people watching this live here, so please join us. Let me know. What’s your aha. What’s your takeaway from what I’ve taught you here today? So I’m up next, next week show.

I’m very excited about it. So it’s going to be episode number 46 46 is my seven year keto anniversary show. You don’t want to miss that. I’m going to go over my journey for seven years. Results. I’ve seen lots of client, examples of success, all the things that I’ve seen, not get better for other people.

And also I’m going to share the things that I’ve changed my mind on. So what’s different now about how I teach keto, how I live keto myself and how I bring it to my clients than I did seven years ago when I started this crazy, awesome journey. So that’s next week. So tune in next week. Show is going to be on May 19th, 2022.

Join us live on YouTube or on Facebook. If you can’t join us live, we’re going to have it up on the website and also on all the podcast platforms as well. Very soon after that. Today’s show we covered the three things that women need to succeed on keto. So again, we need the emotional hormonal and community support to be successful.

And so that wraps up our show for today. So if you’re struggling on. You’re missing one or two or three of those things in your life. I’m here to help. I work with my clients by application only. So check out my website, ketocarole.com. And let me put that up here. Carole is the very fancy French spelling.

It has an E on the end. So ketocarole.com. Check that out. If, what you’ve see there resonates with you. I have a couple of spots open for clients, and again, I work with my clients on the application and work very closely with them to get them the results that they’ve been striving to get on their own.

And so it does support the show. If you’ve enjoyed this content share with a friend also, I’d appreciate leave us a review on iTunes or on Spotify. And remember. So we’ve got one more comment here. Oh, here we go. Okay. So Stephanie “prioritizing protein resonates with me. I have to have three meals a day struggling and getting 70 grams a day”.

Appreciate reinforcing this. Yes. Actually in our client group call last night. That was actually one of the things that we were talking about is how do you get that protein in Stephanie Lynn? It’s women historically, we under eat protein. And especially when we’re trying to diet lose weight, that we eat very tiny portions and we try to eat as little as possible.

So part of that, we have to overcome that. And once I find the ones, my clients actually are getting enough protein, their protein appetite increases, and that it’s much easier, but there’s a lot of tricks that we talked about too, that can help you get more protein into and. It’s Kathy again. Great show.

So good to see you, Kathy. What a nice surprise. All right. That does it for the show. Everyone. Thanks again for watching. And again, if you need help or support on keto, check out my website, ketocarole.com and remember, help us grow the show and we’ll help you shrink. Thanks for watching. We’ll see you all next time.

Bye now.

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7 Years on Keto Success Story | KCL46

7 Years on Keto Success Story

Join me in celebrating 7 years on my keto journey! Hear my story of how it all started, the improvements I’ve experienced over the years, personal struggles, and the things I’ve changed my mind about along the way.

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Transcript:

Transcript provided by Descript

Carole Freeman: oh, Hey, every one. How are ya? How you doing? Welcome to my seven year keto anniversary show. All the lessons I’ve learned. Things have I’ve changed my mind about a we’re live everyone. Are you curious what happens after seven years following a keto diet? You wonder what? My results, my struggles things I’ve changed my mind about over that time.

7 Years on Keto Success Story

Join me in celebrating 7 years on my keto journey! Hear my story of how it all started, the improvements I’ve experienced over the years, personal struggles, and the things I’ve changed my mind about along the way.

This episode is for you. I’m so glad you’re here. Welcome. Welcome to the show. Join in, let me know where you’re watching from, where you’re joining from. I am doing a little digital nomad life. So you might notice if you’re a regular viewer of the show, I’m in a different location, doing a little bit of a digital nomad for a few months before I go up to Seattle area, my son lives in.

In August and September, I’m going to be spending some time up there. So I’m doing a little Airbnb jaunt down here in the Phoenix area for a few months before then. I’m getting the light settled and everything in here. It’s a little different. So welcome to the show, everyone. Again, welcome to keto chat.

Live my special seven year anniversary episode. I’m your host Carole Freeman. I have a master’s degree in nutrition, clinical health psychology. I am a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I’m a board certified keto genic nutrition specialist. That is a mouthful.

Now I specialize in helping women 40 plus follow a keto diet for sustainable weight. Let me give you a quick little medical disclaimer here about this show is meant for educational and entertainment purposes. Only. It is not medical advice, nor is it intended to diagnose, prevent, treat, or cure any condition whatsoever.

If you have questions or concerns related to your specific medical conditions, please seek out advice from your personal health healthcare professionals. So welcome. Welcome everyone. How y’all doing? How’s it going today? All right. Personal update. Check in here. I’m heading out tonight to do some comedy in Awahtukee, which is a Southern part of Phoenix, Arizona.

If you didn’t know, you can actually get all of my events and updates of events, comedy, and show events at TheCaroleFreeman.com. Just remember that Carole is that very fancy French spelling that has an E on the end.

If you want to stay updated on all my comedy shows and upcoming keto Chat Lives. That’s where to go. All the events are updated on there. So the Carole freeman.com again, Carole has an E on the end of it. Our podcast really exciting. Our podcast has been charting the nutrition charts all over the world and Canada, Norway recently, currently we’re number 51 in Saudi Arabia. Hello to everyone listening from there and number 148 in South Africa. So thank you for our listeners all around the world.

It’s been really exciting to see this grow. So we’re just heading in, this is our second year of doing this podcast, it’s really exciting to see where people are getting information from. Another update here is that on June 6th, 2022, I’m going to be running by popular demand. I’m going to be running my.

Pathway to end emotional eating program. So this is a program that’s specifically designed to teach you how to cope with your feelings and emotions in healthy ways, instead of turning to food to some, to numb out sooth or avoid your feelings. If you want more information about that, I’ll tell you at the end of the show about how to get more information and.

But popular demand. It’s a diet agnostic. So if you’re just struggling to stick with keto, the, because you turn to food for comfort, stress relief all of that, this program is specifically designed for that. All right, up next, I’m going to give a proper review. So I started this, the last couple of episodes featuring a product that.

Sapiens kitchen. I discovered them a few weeks ago. I, they commented on something in a local Arizona keto Facebook group here, and I didn’t even know they existed. They were I got a chat with the owner of the company, actually, when he came and delivered my food, he told me more of their story.

They were a paleo kitchen, a paleo restaurant, like a higher end paleo restaurant in the Scottsdale Arizona, which is a suburb of Phoenix. They were a very high end paleo restaurant. Then unfortunately, during the pandemic, like a lot of restaurants, they really struggled to stay open. So then that’s when they decided they would try to do some meal delivery service.

They do both paleo and keto friendly meals. About a week and a half ago, I ordered. 10 different meals. I ordered basically every meal that they had available that they said was keto. They had some standalone proteins. I know that most dishes are light on the protein.

I ordered every single solo protein that they had available as well. I’m still working my way through. I’ll tell you what, like absolutely delicious food, like really high quality. The owner, it turns out one of the owners was the one that delivered the food right to my door. We chatted for quite a while.

He said that everything is organic fresh and I can taste like I have all this culinary training. I used to teach cooking classes. On that basically there was a very high quality. Ingredients, but very high quality crafting of the dishes as well. Most of the dishes were veggies and protein, and then they had some kind of, a little dish of sauce.

Roman that the one of the owners had explained to me that the sauce is part of the keto mix on that. So there’s some, health. It’s in there and they do primarily a paleo keto. So there was no dairy in anything that they gave me, which, good or bad. I love dairy, but that’s their focus that they do.

Again, I’ll say the portions were good. The protein portion. It varied from dish to dish, but it was a pretty good protein portion. I’ll admit I, I should have actually weighed them out so I could have given some macro breakdowns, but the protein I’m guessing for each dish was probably around 40 grams of protein, just for my experience.

The veggie portion is probably more than what would be. So for my clients, I recommend 20 total carbs in the beginning. The veggie portion that they provide. Probably more in alignment with it, like 10 to 14 carbs per dish, or maybe even a little bit more. They had summer squash some of the dishes had some spaghetti squash in there, just a small portion of that and green beans.

Trying to remember some other ones bell peppers. The dishes that they came in. Little individual containers. There was a delicious I think it was probably like a not a flank steak, but a skirt steak some cauliflower and broccoli with that and delicious, savory sauce that went with that.

Some sautéed mushrooms. There was one that was Cod. That was really delicious. It had a lemon caper sauce that came with it. Some other veggies pork, I haven’t eaten that one. There were so many that I up putting something in my freezer. So there’s a big bone in pork chop.

That thing is, looks like it’s about a 10 ounce piece of pork. There was a chicken one that had a little bit of a sauce that had apples in it and I’ll got a stuffed bell pepper that was stuffed brimming filled with. Grass fed organic beef and some other things in there.

It was a giant portion that was definitely two portions worth. Overall really high quality, very delicious reasonably priced. Like each of the meals were 12 to $14 each very affordable very reasonable price for what you’re doing. Again, the veggie portion I’ve ended up for most of the meals, like cutting the veggies in half and I’ve got lots of veggies left over more of more veggie serving than I would want normally for a meal.

But so if you’re in the Phoenix area, check them out, highly recommended. The owner wanted to do some kind of a co-lab. So hopefully in the future, we’ll be able to do some kind of a live interview with him on the show and perhaps some live. In the Phoenix area them doing some kind of a dinner at the restaurant for keto folks.

If you’re in the Phoenix area, lucky for you. Linda the name of the company is sapiens kitchen. So like homo sapiens, sapiens kitchen. You’ll be able to find them if you search on Google. But again, they’re just in the, they’re in the suburb of Phoenix, Arizona there, they don’t ship nationwide.

They actually, hand deliver the food themselves. From what I understand was on Wednesdays to most of the Phoenix area. Their website has information. Y you order directly on the website, anything and fill out your shipping information. Then they deliver every Wednesday is what I understand.

That’s my product review of the week. Sapiens kitchen.

Let’s get to the juicy goodness of me recapping the last seven years on my keto journey. I really. I can’t believe it’s been that long. But just like anything else in your life, like time passes really quickly.

If you’ve been thinking about making a dietary change, but you just keep putting it off seven years can go by in the blink of an eye, keep getting unhealthy. More overweight or you could just work your way through continuing to do it. Okay. Paul’s here. Welcome Paul. He’s saying I’ve been keto for five years, went from a hundred, three kg to 64 kg and have been quite weight stable since resolved high blood pressure and the ulcerative colitis.

Wonderful. That’s excellent. Paul, congrats on your success. You started by saying question, but it looks like it’s a statement. So congrats on your success. Celebrate here. I’ve got a fun little so let’s do this. Let’s round of applause for Paul success on keto there everyone. Yay, Paul.

Paul’s asking a medical question here. He’s asking you, you had lots of kidney stones in the past two years. Any ideas or thoughts of related to keto? I can’t give any personal medical advice like that. I’d recommend checking out Don’t have a keto friendly doctor yourself. I can recommend that you talk to this person here.

atgohealth.com is the virtual functional medicine doctor that I refer a lot of my clients to. At that website, that URL, if you go there, you can get a free 15 minute consult with Dr. Ruiz. He’s amazing. That’s what I would recommend for you there, Paul. That figured out what’s going on for you.

Yeah, so I’m glad you’re here. Congrats on all your success. Tell tell Dr. Ruiz that I sent you. He gives all my referrals a very special rate too. Check him out. He’s fantastic. All I’m going to talk about my journey. Now, my, my assistant gave me an idea.

She’s what about having some of your successful clients on your show for your seven year anniversary? First I was like, oh, that’s brilliant. I was like, no, this shows about me. This shows about me. We talked a lot about my client success on a lot of my shows, but. My journey and not to be selfish or anything like that, but people want an update and seven years is a long time to do anything.

Let’s talk about my journey and pre keto. My anniversary date is May 18th, 2015. Previous to that in 2007, through 2011, I went to Bastyr university. I was getting, working towards my dream degrees and I got a undergrad in nutrition. Then I moved on to a double master’s program.

I got a master’s degree in nutrition and clinical health psychology simultaneously. I’ll tell you what, if you haven’t been to grad school, try doing two of them at the same time. That was a stressor come into my life. But I have always been passionate about helping, especially women feel physically and mentally good as healthy as possible, but not only feeling healthy, but just mentally, really healthy as well too.

The degree that Bastyr offers, as far as I know, they still offer it. When I saw that nutrition and psychology together, dream degree, I was like, this is what I want. I want to know. The psychological support to give people, to help them be able to make these dietary changes. But I want to learn how does diet influence our mental health and wellbeing.

To me, it was my dream degree and I worked my behind off in getting it some Facebook user happy anniversary. Thank you so much. Facebook group, it won’t show your name unless you actually give it permission. So you can either there should be a link there that lets you give permission to share.

Your name and image, or you can actually just type it in as a comment and let me know that’s you and I can then I’ll know who’s watching from Facebook and okay. Stay, there are world renowned school. It’s where most naturopathic doctors are trained in in the world and a really high quality education.

Science-based whole food nutrition. We learned, don’t fear fat, and however, The approach that we were taught to helping people make dietary change. Weight loss was really, you shouldn’t try to help people lose weight. That, we learned something called the health and every size model that the research shows that when people try to lose weight, typically they just gain it back and they gain even more back.

Therefore it’s just better to help people accept their body the way that it is and follows things like intuitive, eating and mindful. While I think these have a lot of value. What I’ve found in my approach is that it’s not a fruitless endeavor to try to help people lose weight. It just takes sustained effort and a comprehensive approach.

First for reasons, I’ll talk about here in a minute but that, using mindful eating and intuitive eating in the context of. A whole foods, diet that in the words of Dr. Ken Berry would say the proper human diet, you can intuitively eat and mindfully eat, but you can’t do that with things like cake and cookies and fast food.

That’s I was using everything. I was taught at school about mindful eating and not trying to worry about my weight or anything like that and intuitive eating. Every evening I would ask myself what are you craving? What do you need right now? Nine times out of 10, the answer was cake like chocolate cake or cookies or something like that.

I’ll tell you what I gained weight. I by the time I graduated in the years after that, following that advice, I developed metabolic syndrome. If you’re not familiar with metabolic syndrome, it’s a there are five different signs that you have this. If you have three of the five, any three of the five.

Then you have what’s considered metabolic syndrome. This is a an issue where basically means you’re pre-diabetic, but it means that your body’s in a place where you’re headed towards pretty much every chronic disease that’s out there. If you don’t do something to turn it around. This approach, it doesn’t work without some other parameters of changing what your what you do eat and what you don’t eat.

Let’s see if I can do the five things that mean you have metabolic syndrome. So one is a waist measurement above 35 inches for women above 40 inches for men high blood pressure, high fasting, blood glucose, high triglycerides. What’s the other one low HDL cholesterol that what’s considered your good cholesterol.

Those are the signs. I had probably almost all of those. Okay, how did I find keto though? I didn’t learn. I learned about this much in, in, in my degrees, but it was taught to us about here’s a therapy that’s for epilepsy and that’s about all it was at that time. So again, remember, this was 2007 through 2011.

This was not when keto was very popular, we were not being taught it as a weight loss protocol. In March of 2014, That was a turning point in my life that led to me discovering the power of keto. I was in a horrible car accident. I was rear-ended by a distracted driver. She was going approximately 35 miles an hour, and didn’t even tap on her brakes distracted for some reason, we know it was probably Instagram or Facebook.

There was no way to know. She told the cops that she was reaching for her smoothie, but the length of time that she accelerated into me. Before the crash it was 10 seconds. That’s a really long time to reach for a smoothie, especially when cars, these days have about 10 cup holders within reach. So maybe she was making a smoothie while she was driving.

I don’t know. But anyways, I sustained a traumatic brain injury crush injuries to my legs, and I was a bad sheep. I spent about the next three months in bed, unable to walk. Progressively. I was able to get back out of bed after about three months, but my health declined over the next year and a half.

Just things got worse and worse. Continued to gain a lot of weight and the list of health problems. would take two pages. I finally figured out that I’d had an undiagnosed traumatic brain injury and imaging census has proved this. I developed what’s called post-traumatic hypopituitarism, which basically the little pituitary gland in my brain wreck havoc and was making everything in my body, misfire and miss work.

Went to countless doctors appointments. I did so much research on my own, trying to figure out how to solve this. I finally out of sheer desperation. I’m like, I know that if I can feed my body correctly, I believe that it can heal. What can I feed my body to help it heal? What does it missing right now?

I stumbled upon, I actually, I remembered. We learned about keto diet as a treatment for epilepsy in grad school. I reasoned that epilepsy is something that’s not going right in the brain. Perhaps keto might help my brain cause it’s not working right now. I started researching Googling.

At that time, Dr. Peter Attia was doing his keto experiments and he is a science nerd. His blog is at that time, I think it’s different now, but at that time it was so specific detailed. Research-based, I felt really confident that this could be a healthy and safe thing for me to take on.

Whereas what everyone else at that time thought was that it was dangerous. Not only from a standpoint of trying to get into ketosis. But just the, a diet mentality that I’ve been taught was such a bad thing. Like you don’t restrict foods that causes eating disorders, you’re going to do more harm than you do.

So I secretly started my experiment and I was so desperate to not be bedridden and disabled anymore. I’ll tell you what, when I was four, when I first started keto, I was getting my food for my son and I at the food bank because I couldn’t work. My son was working two jobs to pay our rent. I was in a bad place and I was seriously desperate.

When people say they can’t afford to do keto that’s not true. You can do it with food that is gifted to you if you do it correctly. That’s. How we started it, things change really quickly very quickly. I chronicled the whole thing in a monthly blog series and all links to that.

That’s my old blog. I did a monthly update of how things were going and how all the improvements in my body. I’m linking in the comments here. What’s. Okay. So I put her on YouTube and in Facebook, I’ll put it in the show notes as well. If you were listening to this podcast later on and not watching live I’ll put a link to my blog in the, my old blog, in the show notes as well.

So this is. When I’ve linked is a month one, this is my I started this experiment in secret and here’s all the change and it’s pretty dramatic actually, as you go through. So I’ve got one blog post for each month of the first year that I was on keto and I cataloged how things were changing, what all I was improving and what I was up to at that time.

After. Four or five months, I started speaking and I spoke in an epilepsy conference. I spoke at a Toastmasters conference. I started speaking in the keto world.

In short, the in summary and the first six months of doing this, I lost 60 pounds and 10 inches off my waist. The health improvements. I no longer had high blood pressure. I no longer had metabolic syndrome. I no longer was pre-diabetic. Inflammation was sky high. When I started, that was down in the normal range.

I dropped my heart rate by 20 points. I know that switching over from being a carb burner to a fat burner, you get a dramatic reduction in your heart rate, which is an indicator of a metabolic health as well, but just cardiovascular health too. I had dramatic improvements in my skin.

Anti-aging effects. A lot of people accused me of having Botox. I still have not had Botox. I was pain-free. So I had developed what’s called chronic regional pain syndrome and my legs from the car accident. That was something when I started keto that I had any idea that would improve.

It was something that I had two aunts that had developed in their life. It’s a chronic pain syndrome that gets worse. It’s spreads and it’s disabling. It ends up causing your legs where wherever the injury is, you can get it any limb in your body, but it just starts to disable it, that it starts to just curl in the muscles, curl up.

It’s bad news stuff. That went into remission very quickly. Which is unheard of, but doing this for seven years. Now, I have story after story of clients with some kind of a chronic pain issue that goes away, people that had previous car accidents that were far more severe than what I had been through that 10 years, they were taking pain killers and icing their leg still.

That was no longer an issue. Ladies that were scheduled for knee replacement surgery that canceled their surgery because their knees felt so great. Those are just a couple of examples of chronic pain that people have that has gone away or gone into remission with keto. What else?

Mental clarity incontinence. So this was another interesting one. I only knew this was a common thing that happened for people on keto because of all the women I’ve worked with. I noticed it was something for me that went away. We’re told as women that after we have a child that having urinary incontinence is just part of life mama.

So just get used to it. But I started noticing in my group coaching with my clients, that was something that people started to report after a few months is that they no longer have. Stress incontinence. So if you cough and a little pee comes out, or if you sneeze or something like that’s stress incontinence.

That actually went away for people. I still haven’t seen this report is in the literature anywhere, but I have seen it so many times with my clients that it’s the thing. It doesn’t have to be a part of mama’s life. Tons of energy, physical stamina, waking up in the morning with the same amount of energy that I go to bed with.

Helping thousands of women and a few men along the way on this journey have been, really the results that I’ve I’ve experienced over these seven years. I’m gonna share with you , where am I currently on my seven year keto? What are some struggles that I faced on this journey?

What’s changed about my approach from the very beginning versus what I teach my clients now. Where am I? I’ve maintained not having metabolic syndrome and not having diabetes. My family history, we’ve got diabetes on one side and the other side we’ve got well and actually even more things.

Diabetes gastrointestinal issues or diverticulitis runs in my family. On the other side, we’ve got heart attacks, stroke, both sides. We’ve got dementia. The people in my family that have those things, it started in their forties and I’m 51 now. I don’t have any of those things. Pre keto years before.

So in my, probably my late twenties, I had really severe digestive issues that that was long before keto, but that was something that I was, they were contemplating surgery to remove that for me. So this runs in my family as well. So for my not perfect that I’ve been doing on keto. I’ve been able to avoid all of these issues that run in my family, that I was having pre keto as well.

Full confession time I’m up 20 pounds over my lowest weight that I achieved on keto. But that’s just living proof that you don’t have to be perfect at this. You just have to not give up. So even though I’m not perfect I don’t it hasn’t been seven years of me eating everything perfectly keto during that time that doing what I have done has been far more successful than anything I’ve ever tried.

I’ve never been able to maintain any dietary change for seven years. I’ve never been able to avoid. The medical history, fate of what my genetics lead me to with any other dietary change even not being perfect. All right. I’m living proof that don’t give up. You don’t have to be perfect.

7 Years on Keto Success Story

Join me in celebrating 7 years on my keto journey! Hear my story of how it all started, the improvements I’ve experienced over the years, personal struggles, and the things I’ve changed my mind about along the way.

You’re going to be so much better off than you were had you given up and just gone back to your old eating habits why have I had struggles? Why can’t I be perfect? Why, if I’ve got this figured out, why is it. So easy just to be perfect and never gained weight. The truth is I’ve covered this in past episodes and I’ve got some more episodes planned about this as well, but our bodies, they really want to regain the weight.

We’re designed to overeat and gain as much weight as possible. This is just from most of human existence, living in an environment where food was scarce. Those of us that survived were the ones that our body was really good at seeking out food, eating as much as possible, and then gaining that as weight.

We’re designed that way. We have to be diligent against that. lot of people, the criticism of keto, what’s not sustainable, but guess what? The only thing that’s sustainable in our current food environment is continuing to gain weight. Overeating and developing chronic disease. That’s sustainable.

It takes hard work and diligence to maintain something that’s different than what most of the food on our environment is, but it’s worth it. If you want to be physically fit you, that takes a concerted effort to do it most days of the week, going to the gym or walking or riding a bike or whatever it is you’re into, you have to do that most days overnight.

Nobody tells somebody that like, who just gets a gym membership that’s not sustainable. You shouldn’t even try. That’s just ridiculous that we’re told, trying to maintain healthy eating habits, even not being perfect, that it’s not sustainable. With the right support, the right approach, it can be, and you can avoid the faith that you would have otherwise.

Cause I’ll tell you what if I just been eating the way that I had been pre keto, intuitive eating and just eating, whatever I wanted, hoping I would maintain moderation. Tell you what right now I’d probably be about twice the weight that I am right now, in all honesty. I, and I would be on several medications for diseases and I would.

Be a very typical 51 year old where I would have aches and pains and taking a lot of painkillers and things like that. I’m in a far better place than I would be had I not been on this journey. We live in an obesogenic environment. I think I mentioned that we live in a world where food is abundant.

It’s everywhere. You don’t even have to leave your chair to order food to your house and eat it. Overeat it. You can drive through in a car and get mountains of food. It’s how people show love and how people caretake and having a dessert three times a day is the norm. Whereas it used to be the desserts were for special occasions, right?

The food manufacturers, what they conspire against us. They want us to overeat because we’ve reached a point where most people have enough calories in a day. To keep maintaining increasing profits and selling more food, what do they got to do? They got to design these foods to be craveable and to make us over eat them, have no satiety and to buy them repeatedly.

All that works against us and I’m not perfect. Or immune to that. Carbs are very comforting. They’re easy to use to cope with stress and emotions and just like my clients, we’re all a work in progress. So this is part of why we call it the keto journey. It’s not some people say keto lifestyle.

The keto journey is more about like when you started it to where you are now and you still got the journey. That goes on the rest of our lives. This isn’t something we just do for awhile and then we quit and everything’s fine. Perfect. It’s a journey still on the journey.

I’m not getting off this journey. That’s my, my struggles have been what everybody struggles are when they live this as a lifestyle. So part of why I want to share that is that I want you to alternate. You don’t have to be perfect if you’ve struggled, you’re not alone.

That’s why I provide long-term support for my clients because you know what if people weren’t watching what I was doing, if I didn’t have my team of coaches that we meet every week if I didn’t have my clients looking to me as an example and role model of how to maintain this sustainably, I would probably have not been able to.

Avoid regaining all the weight myself. My support system is putting this podcast out for you all and having this, the clients that I connect with daily, and we all support each other. That’s one of the most important parts of making it sustainable is having other people around you that you’re connected with, that are successful in maintaining your keto journey.

What’s changed about my approach since seven years ago. One of the biggest changes is more protein, very protein centric now. In the beginning a lot of us thought that if you ate too much protein, it kicked you out of ketosis. It raised your blood sugar and it was anti ketogenic.

One of the things we’ve had to recognize is that a medical therapeutic keto diet, for example, for little kids where we want them. Or somebody who has brain cancer, something like that. They’re doing keto for medical reasons, not for weight loss. That’s a very different diet than a weight loss or a sustainable weight.

Eating plan. That’s very different. One of the things that we found is that having protein as your first priority and more protein. In the beginning, I recommended that women have between, around 60 grams of protein a day and 60 to 80. Men a little bit more than that. But what I found is that most women actually do much better, closer to double that around a hundred, 120 grams, or maybe even more a protein a day.

That’s a big difference from when I first started out. what I found with a more protein. Things that were common side effects of keto are no longer an issue. I’ll notice when my clients, their protein intake is really low, their cravings are much higher.

Protein foods are actually rich in vitamins and minerals. You’re going to get more, a nutrient dense diet when you’re getting more protein than you are fat and. The hair loss issues that some women have a protein centric. So very protein forward, focusing on protein as the highest priority each day they don’t lose their hair.

I’ve had some ladies recently year over year getting DEXA scans. They’re not one of them works out a lot five days a week or more. Then the other one doesn’t work out at all and they both not only maintain their lean mass but they increased it. That is because of the protein centric focus.

Most women under eat protein, they eat very little protein, eat lots of carbs. They nibble and snack all day long and a lot of carby stuff and they under eat protein. Protein is a nutrient. We need the amino acids from proteins, and then the minerals that are attached to those amino acids all are necessary to have a optimally healthy body.

Is there some of the summary of why we much higher protein intake is the focus now, as opposed to when I started out one of the other changes to what’s different in seven years of me doing this is that there’s less focus on. In the beginning I was teaching it, you needed a ratio, one-to-one protein to fat and more, more fat was better.

Now it’s in the very beginning, people getting used to having a higher fat intake cause that’s where some of the satiety comes from. This definitely is not a low fat diet and it’s it’s an adequate fat diet. People are getting the nutrients that they’ve been missing for a long time.

Soluble vitamins. While we’re not, force-feeding fat, we’re not doing Bulletproof coffee. We’re not putting tons of butter and coconut oil in our coffee and on everything else like that. We’re in the beginning, I had, more of an emphasis on, oh, let’s get some MCT oil, let’s get some coconut oil.

Let’s try to increase your fat intake. Much less of a focus on that now. I teach people differently about how to moderate fat, how much fat to add to their diet. , I’ve let go of having a ratio of protein to fat. Some people out there one-to-one or two to one fat to protein I don’t do any of that.

Another big difference now is that I’m working with a functional medicine doctor. I’m doing regular lab reviews with my clients or metabolic health panel. We get that at the beginning of their journey, and then we check it at several points during there. There’s some stuff that have come up in the labs, just general health labs that.

That, not my area of expertise. I’ve got a functional medicine doctor that I refer people to when they need a little more help with that. Some of the things are that are turns out, were things that came up in my client’s labs for years that their regular doctor just never noticed or didn’t follow up on.

We’ve had some really dramatic things we found that were otherwise just getting swept under the rug or ignored that lifesaving things for people actually that have changed for them. That’s I’m really grateful to be able to work with the functional medicine doctor that I have and have that as part of our team so that people can get, the goal is optimal health not just not dead care.

Another thing that’s changed as well over my seven-year journey is that I have multiple different programs. I’ve I fine tuned my approach with all the experience that I’ve had personally, and everyone that I’ve worked with over that time. I’ve got several different programs that are all designed to help women, a few men, but mostly women just be able to sustain this as a lifestyle that’s healthy and optimizing.

Their body, their mind, their spirits. I’ve got a starter program that all my clients go through initially. Then we’ve got an annual membership that people can join after that, to stay connected and keep learning and being supported on their journey. The other change too, that I should have put earlier than mentioning that was just just.

Intermittent fasting. Skipping meals for women or promoting fasting and women probably isn’t the best thing for their hormones. So this is something more newer in the, in this year that I’ve been learning about and exploring. I did an interview with Dr. Ruiz, one of my past podcast episodes.

Dr. Ruiz specializes in thyroid. On our interview, we talked about how women’s hormones are much more sensitive to, in frequencies of feeding and. Women’s hormones. Ideally what it’s designed for is reproduction and when nutrients or food is scarce in an environment, that’s not the ideal time to reproduce.

While that’s not everybody’s goal, that’s what being mindful of that as. Circumstances is going to help us be optimally healthy. He’s the one that’s kind kinda talking to me about the intermittent fasting, so skipping breakfast, or promoting fasting and women is going to likely cause wreck more havoc in the body, maybe affect thyroid function, just overall hormone production and function in the woman’s body, more so than it would have been.

That’s another thing that. Not encouraging women to go down to one meal a day, maybe for some of them not even doing two meals a day and not encouraging. I used to do a lot of fasting challenges and things like that. I no longer do that with my female clients to. But let go of egg fasting.

That used to be something that I would teach people is how to accelerate fat loss by doing egg fasting, which is a very high fat version of keto, eggs and butter, basically. I no longer include that in, in my teachings. Where am I going next?

This is how I see myself continuing to eat the rest of my life. This isn’t something where, you need to always be 20 grams of carbs or less. I work with my clients on looking at those metabolic health labs. When you’ve gotten to the point of metabolic health, then that may be a time when.

You can have more carbs. It shows that your body can tolerate a higher carbon take. Not everybody needs to be keto level carbs, indefinitely. That’s a very individualized personalized thing. One of the things that I work with my clients on is, so not only looking at the labs, when are you metabolically healthy?

When could your body tolerate a higher carb intake? But we’re looking at that psychology side of things. We, what foods trigger you to overeat? What foods trigger you to be food obsessed again? Cause my clients really enjoy. Not having any cravings, not being food obsessed and being able to eat mindfully and intuitively.

There’s certain foods, certain types of carbs or certain amounts of carbs, or both that turn all that back on. So we’re looking at quality of relationship with the food you’re eating. What turns the craving back on what triggers, overeating and binges. Avoiding that. Again, this journey model of let’s figure out what is sustainable for you.

Long-term. That’s really, the focus is how do we actually make this sustainable, despite whatever, when tells us about it being not sustainable. So that’s, where I see my future doing, continuing these live shows and producing the podcast, continuing to prioritize. Protein real whole foods in my life and low carb keto, occasionally, and putting out my practitioner training program.

I did a few years. I ran a alpha version of a practitioner training where I taught other healthcare providers, how to build out a program in their clinic or their practice and how to basically promote and market that. My plans in the next year or two, is to launch that on a larger scale.

I see myself perhaps doing some teaching at local schools, colleges, and. Going more between Phoenix area and Seattle area and more of this, a snowbird life perhaps, and continuing to spread the word and working with with clients and improving their health, teaching them how to do keto in a way that is psychologically sustainable, as well as physiological sustainable for them.

That is a summary of my seven year journey and where we’re going next. Next week’s show is going to be about the secrets to ending emotional eating. As I mentioned at the beginning of the show, I’m relaunching my pathway to end emotional eating program, which is focused on how do we learn to identify our feelings?

How do we have them and cope with them in healthy ways, instead of using food to numb sooth, or avoid things so that you can stay on your keto journey more easily. We’ve got an info session coming up about that. If you’re interested, if you’re struggling to stay on keto because of emotional or stress eating I encourage you to send an email to support.

KetoCarole.com. We’ve got this email here, support@KetoCarole.com. Just say, I want info about ending emotional eating.

Again next week’s show is going to be on that topic. We’ll be having an info session coming up soon as well. All right. All right.

This show has been about my seven year journey on keto, happy anniversary, seven years, everyone.

Please support the show. Give us a review on your podcast platform. If you’re apple iTunes out there, give me a review. I would love to have my first review out there.

Remember, if you help us grow the show, we’ll help you shrink!.

Thank you everyone for being here today, that’s all had planned for this topic we’ll see you all next time. Thanks for being here. We’ll see you soon.

Bye now.

Connect with Carole:
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Keto Health Care | KCL47

Keto Health Care

Join Carole as she chats with Physician Assistant, Maria Shesiuk, as she shares her keto journey to health, how she first heard of Carole and how she influenced her, and how she now used keto with her patients.

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music 

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Transcript:

Transcript provided by Descript

Carole Freeman: Are we ready to do this, Maria? Hey, everyone we’re live.

Do you wonder how a low carb diet can help with chronic disease?

Are you curious how a low carb diet impacts athletic performance? Ooh, easy for me to say.

Do you wish there were more keto, friendly healthcare providers out there?

This episode is for you stick around and learn how physician’s assistant Maria Shesiuk discovered a low carb diet for herself, how it impacted her health and eating habits and how she now uses it clinically with her patients.

Welcome everyone to keto chat live. I’m your host Carole Freeman masters in nutrition and clinical health psychology.

I’m also a board certified ketogenic nutrition specialist. I specialize in helping women 40 plus follow a keto diet for sustainable way. Got to plug the medical disclaimer here. The show has meant for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not meant for medical advice nor intended to diagnose, prevent, treat, or cure anything at all.

Except for maybe boredom or curiosity. If you have questions or concerns related to your specific medical condition, please seek out your qualified healthcare professional. Welcome Maria to the show. So glad that you’re here. Everyone who is watching. Go ahead and give us a comment, share where you’re joining us from and help me welcome our guest.

Maria is a physician’s assistant personal trainer, yoga instructor, and Maria received a BS in psychology from Wayne state university in 2000 2010 and a master’s of science in physician’s assistant studies from . CCBC PA program in 2012 with hospital-based experience in medical coverage of multiple surgical specialties.

She is an N a S M certified personal trainer and a yoga Alliance, certified yoga teacher, and a competitive Olympic weightlifter. So ha that’s a mouthful. Welcome Maria to the show.

keto health care

Join Carole as she chats with Physician Assistant, Maria Shesiuk

Maria Shesiuk: Thank you so much. I sound really impressive on paper.

Carole Freeman: You are impressive in person too.

Maria Shesiuk: Thank you so much for having me on Carole. Like we discussed before I have been following you for quite some time. And the lectures, one of the presentations that you gave in salt lake city really changed how I think about. Food and diet in general. And it really, it helped me and in turn to help my patients.

I really appreciate all the work that you’re doing. I think it’s really awesome and incredible.

Carole Freeman: Oh likewise, I can’t wait to get to know you even deeper on today’s show too, and share with you. I wanted to share, so you sent me the bio I just read, but you also sent me a specialized clinical interest and a personal statement, which I’m really impressed with.

And I want to share that with everyone first, before we go into some more questions for you. Let me do a little more reading and mix up some letters while I’m doing that. Maria is specialized clinical interest at IHP, which is the clinic that you work at them. So many, right? Maria focuses on functional evaluation prevention and treatment of patients with chronic medical conditions, with a particular interest in addressing them with low carbohydrate ketogenic and animal-based diets.

She also sees patients who are seeking to optimize physical and cognitive performance, her professional. Personal experience has taught her the importance of physical fitness, mindfulness practices, and self realization in alleviating symptoms of most elements, and then personal statement. I hope to help you heal by training the mind and body as one.

My desire is not to simply treat symptoms and manage illness, but to help you maximize your levels of energy and vitality so that you can truly enjoy life. We have many powerful tools to help people help help the body heal itself with an open mind and a large dose of curiosity. I’ve used nutrition, herbs, and movement practices to heal myself and to help others do the same.

I love this last line. I view you that’s her patients. I view you as the practitioner and myself as the facilitator in healing. I felt really important. I wanted to share that because it’s such a different approach than probably most people are used to with their healthcare provider. So powerful.

I got tingles all over from it. How did you get interested in healthcare in the first place?

Maria Shesiuk: It was a long and winding road. I I was working in many different degrees because I kept wandering in college. I didn’t really quite know what I wanted to do. I had an interest in art.

I had an interest in physics. I had an interest in science. I was all over the place, just constantly switching majors. And also there was also concerned about what am I going to do? Majors w what will my life look like? If I learned how to draw really well, there were a lot of uncertainties, because I, I come from a very modest family were immigrants and we never had a lot of money and I wanted to have both job satisfaction and a decent income and be of some service to society.

I wondered a lot. And also I was very sick in my twenties actually started late in high school in 11th grade. I became very ill and it continues continued through my twenties. Part of my switching majors was due to just not feeling well, mentally, spiritually, and physically.

I actually met a PA who experienced the same wandering path. And she’s the one that told me about the profession, because I didn’t know, I didn’t even know what a PA is until she told me about it. And she told me a little bit of a her story and she really inspired me to pursue this profession and I don’t remember her name so I can reach out to her and say, Hey, thanks.

And by the way, do you have any idea of the ripple effect that you had from having that really honest discussion with me? Because she didn’t have to, she was actually providing care to me at the time and she did not have to disclose any of that information. I often think about her when I talked to my patients and I do probably share more than most providers are willing to do because I think that it can have that ripple effect.

I experienced that. The interested in the profession I, at that time I was con got settled on getting a psychology degree and I actually wanted to become a clinical psychologist. But then she made me change my mind and I decided to pursue this path instead. So that’s that’s it in a nutshell, that’s how I got here, but the road to functional medicine, which is the field that I’m working in now was also very anti.

Carole Freeman: Let’s just next clarify what is a physician’s assistant?

Maria Shesiuk: So Carole it’s actually physician assistant. Okay. Assistant. It’s a pretty, a lot of people make that mistake or assumption, whatever you want to call it. We’re not really assistance. We work alongside physicians. So I, there’s no I don’t belong to a physicians per se.

And we do have quite a bit of independence when making clinical decisions in the way we work with physicians is they, the supervisory role is not that he is looking out over my shoulder every minute. Tell me what to do is just it’s more of we should probably be called physician associates rather than assistants, but that’s how the profession was born.

The name

Carole Freeman: what’s the difference between physician assistant then and a full fledged physician maybe that will help?

Maria Shesiuk: Our training is very different. Physicians go through medical school and residency and by the way nurse practitioners go through, I think they also have a residency and they are able to practice completely independently of a physician assistants go through PA school, which is, it’s a different way to learn medicine.

We do have clinical rotations, but we do not do residencies. It’s like we have a little bit more freedom to change specialties because we don’t have to do a residency all over again. So there’s a lot of freedom in this profession.

Carole Freeman: All right. Then tell us more about functional medicine.

I’m a big fan of that and It makes such a huge difference in people’s lives. And a lot of times, some of my clients are like why would I have a doctor already? Why would I need to see a functional medicine doctor? Can you share a little bit about, how that kind of health care is very different me of the benefits of why somebody may choose that?

Maria Shesiuk: Functional medicine is often times called a root cause medicine approach. But somebody in conventional medicine might disagree and say we’re looking for root causes too, but. It’s hard to defend, differentiate it by just saying it’s a root cause approach. Then I feel like if functional medicine, like we, we focus a lot on lifestyle modifications, a lot on like diet, gut health things like, perhaps like stealth infections that are often, overlooked in conventional medicine.

When a patient comes to me, I’m not thinking just in terms of relieving their symptoms, although we do that. But then on top of relieving their symptoms, I’m thinking, okay, what is the underlying cause here? And we go very deep when it comes to the underlying cause. In conventional medicine, maybe if a diabetic comes to clinic there is some discussion about diet, there’s a tremendous amount of focus on.

Medications. We might try, herbal supplements first and really focus on diet. That’s where for me, the low carb diet is, a huge benefit, right? Like how else you reduce blood sugar, rice, carbs or sugar. I want a low carb diet. I encourage, diabetic patients to do that.

And I think patients come to us with that expectation. They’re already prepared to make those changes. There’s a lot from the gut lots and lots of focus on the gut.

Carole Freeman: One of the ways I think of it differently is, like you said, in your statement of thinking of the whole person, whereas conventional medicine looks at each part as a separate thing, and you need a specialist to do the liver, the bones the eyes, the brain whereas functional medicine looks at the person as a whole and all the different aspects that go into health rather than just what medication or surgery can resolve the symptom.

I think another big difference that’s typical as well, that surprises people is how much time they get to spend with you. And do you know, your appointments are 30 or 60 minutes long,

Maria Shesiuk: the first initial appointment is usually an hour long. The followups just, it depends on what the needs of the patients is.

It could be 15 minutes, it could be 30 minutes, 40 minutes, but there are definitely much longer.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Yeah. And what, when’s the last time you got more than five minutes with your doctor?

Maria Shesiuk: We really think in terms of systems, but that’s not to say that we don’t utilize specialties, specialists.

Sometimes we do need to send people out to a specialist yeah. And we’re also an integrative practice. That means not only do we use a functional approach, but we use other therapies as well. Like we have an energy healer here at the practice. We used to have an acupuncturist and a massage therapist, but that kind of fell apart because of COVID we’re hoping to bring some of those people back.

At some point I used to teach yoga and the practice as well, but I’m not doing that right now. And we

Carole Freeman: Where are you located again?

Maria Shesiuk: This is an Ellicott city Maryland. Near, near Baltimore, very close to Baltimore.

I actually live in both.

Carole Freeman: Tell anyone, in Maryland, you can go see Maria and at her clinic, there’s a, we’re covering each quarter and every state one by one here on the show. You’d said that you’d heard a talk that I did that, which actually you referred me a client and I reached out to interview cause I’m like, who is this person that knows me?

And I don’t know her. And you shared that you heard a talk that I did it at salt lake city, which would have been, I think it was 2019

Maria Shesiuk: 2018, maybe 19.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. How you must’ve heard about low carb before you heard the conference? Tell me more about what led you there.

Maria Shesiuk: I think it might’ve been part of the I don’t know.

I have, I used to listen to so many low carb conferences and lectures on YouTube that I can’t even tell you how I found you. But I started low carb in 2015. Okay. And it’s, I just think it’s a funny story. I had this book that I purchased, it was it’s called why we get fat by Gary Tobbs and this book sat on my shelf probably for a couple of years.

Carole Freeman: And without words, I can’t point at it. It’s right there.

Maria Shesiuk: I should have it in my office and it was sitting on my shelf and I was cleaning, cleaning up my clearing out my space and looking at all of the books and trying to figure out what I’m going to keep and what I’m going to donate, because I didn’t have a ton of high quality books that I was going to read again.

I picked up this book, I’m like, what’s this? And I started flipping through it and I must’ve flipped to the right page because I start reading this book somewhere in the middle of it. And it just really grabbed me like some something I was reading in there. I couldn’t put it down. I finished it within a couple of days.

And after reading that book, it’s all these light bulbs started going off. And prior to reading it I had all sorts of health issues that I was managing, but very poorly. And I had severe cystic acne, depression, anxiety, insomnia just endless GI problem. I actually went through two rounds of Accutane that probably even contributed to my GI problems even more.

And I just, I tried being a vegan and a vegetarian and I tried this and that and the other and nothing was really helping me. I decided to give low carb a try and it wasn’t just low carb. I wanted to try ketogenic diet. I’ve really focused on staying ketogenic, not just little card because there’s certainly a difference.

Within about two weeks of doing not a very good ketogenic diet because I didn’t know what the hell was doing. My skin completely cleared up. Then a couple of weeks did for me what two rounds of Accutane could not do. And it was so shocking to me that I actually thought I was pregnant.

I couldn’t put two and two together. I didn’t realize that dog. Can make such a big change. I kept taking pregnancy tests, thinking I must be pregnant because I’ve never had clear skin since I was maybe 10 years old. And, but then it dawned on me that the only thing that really changed was my diet. I started researching, I would just Google acne and ketogenic diet and there it was.

It turns out that could have been an option for me, but the physicians that I kept going to never offered it to me, they never said, Hey, like not even ketogenic, like maybe cut out sugar, cut out, grains, breads, pastas. Me of this might resolve, you would think that a dermatology office at a very prestigious university would know these things would know this information would offer that to me.

And let me decide. If I want to do the keto route, or if I want to do the Accutane route, but they made it sound like Accutane was the only way to go. That’s when my eyes started to open real wide. And I realized what a powerful tool diet truly is. Then of course, I started sleeping better, my energy shot through the roof.

I was no longer bloated, although that’s, that did come back because I was, I started eating way too many vegetables. I got on the vegetable craze and I, I had to get away from that. That’s how I started, but the low carb journey for me took on many different variations, but yeah, that was like, that was the start.

And I was almost I was almost addicted to listening to all of these low carb lectures because I just couldn’t get enough. Just the amount of information that physicians and PhDs and nutritionist just give away for free was just incredible. It was like, I felt like I was getting a PhD without going to school.

Carole Freeman: Oh, so true. You shared a little bit that when you heard my talk, it really changed your approach and then your approach with your clients. I’m really curious to hear how that

Maria Shesiuk: impacted you. Yeah. I know in that particular lecture, I know that you talked about the raccoons, right? The raccoons that if you feed them, they’re going to keep coming back and you were talking about sugar cravings and I don’t know why that was.

Like such earth shattering news to me that eat, if you want the cravings to go away, you actually have to stop eating that food and constantly feeding the raccoons. I continue to use that with my patients, but also you talk a lot about not I’m flipping through recipes all the time.

Like letting that food be some kind of I guess food porn is the only way I can put. And also you, you talk a lot about the behaviors, the behavior changes in order to make low-carb work. And keeping it simple and eating real food.

All of those things helped me stay on track. And then, I pass it onto my patients because it’s so easy to turn a ketogenic diet into yet another sort of junky, low carb thing.

Carole Freeman: Yeah, probably all the symptoms that you got rid of can, could come back. If you went the process food, pseudo fiber products are out there.

Maria Shesiuk: And there’s so much of that junk out there.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Oh, I’m so glad. I it’s so touching to me to know that. Cause sometimes it feels like I’m speaking into a void of anybody realize how important this is. I’m as passionate about the psychology of this as the nutrition aspect of it.

And I’ve seen. I don’t know how to measure the hours of which I’ve studied more, but all throughout school I was learning about, from Stephan Guyenet is a very big influence on me as well as Kathleen Des Maisons, she did work. She had a PhD in addictive nutrition. That was a book I found long time ago and just really opening my eyes to I love learning about, what is it that causes cravings and how do we get rid of them in instead of just managing them and what are the things that influence appetite too?

Stephan Guyenet that’s his wheelhouse is all the different aspects that come into play of what triggers us to overeat. What I teach is really paramount and FA foundational to like, how do we actually regulate our appetite? We’re not just constantly feeling. Hungry and regaining the weight.

And it is, it’s a battle. It’s a constant, lifelong journey in this world that we live in that we’re, every other day, there’s another, probably 10, 10 foods, a day of new keto foods that are coming out. And, it keeps me busy with my clients asking what about this thing?

I saw this at Costco the other day. I said let’s look at the ingredients and see what you think. And yeah. I’m so glad that resonates with you. And it does make a difference. I’ve been doing this, I just celebrated my seven year anniversary of following this myself. We started the same year.

And it, it working with everyone that I have, it makes a huge difference in quality of life. And the sustainability of it is as long as they continue to address those things. Thank you. Thank you. Let’s see. Another question is, okay, so you had amazing results and like a lot of people really dramatic results in a very short period of time.

What was it then that kept you on the path and continue.

Maria Shesiuk: I didn’t want to go back to what I came from that was just too terrifying, that constant misery I can’t believe how long I functioned sort of function because not really in, in that state of like brain fog and chronic fatigue, and, I still managed to run marathons in that state.

And I think the reason I loved running so much is because running relieved a lot of the agitation that I had all the time I’m going to help running, helped me sleep, running, help my anxiety. Running was good in a way, because it helped me manage these symptoms, but, I’m not sure that it’s healthy to run marathons all the time just to maintain some kind of level of health.

What kept me coming back is that is the amazing results. And I didn’t want that misery anymore. But I still, I still made a lot of mistakes and I wasn’t a hundred percent. All the following years I was constantly tweaking and learning new information on doing some of the mistakes that I was making on a ketogenic diet.

Like one of which was I restricted my protein. And then I learned that duh, I’m an athlete. Why am I restricting my protein? I was so obsessed with staying in ketosis that I was afraid to eat protein. That’s not good for an athlete. That’s not good for anybody really.

Then I changed that behavior. I started eating more protein. I noticed that, all these green smoothies I was drinking and all of the salad I was eating just kept me almost as bloated as the grains did. Then I had to change that around a. And eventually I actually stumbled upon some carnivores in the community and went a little bit more down the carnivore road path.

And I’m not a strict carnivore, however, I’m definitely, I call myself carnivore ish. I, I eat a lot of animal foods, mostly animal foods with a little bit of plants. And I am pretty low carb, but probably not ketogenic at this point.

That’s my kind of story of where I started and where I am now.

But what I have to say, what the ketogenic diet did for me is it seems to have balanced out all my hormones, cure them. I left him was totally out of whack. I’m sure my insulin was probably sky high from all the carbs I was eating for the running and stuff. And it seems to have. Completely downregulated my cravings.

Now if I eat something a little bit, carby like there is a stopping point. I don’t feel like I want to keep eating and eating this stuff. Just a little bit of something like a half, an orange or a grapefruit satisfied, satisfies, whatever glucose that I’m craving and I don’t have to keep going.

Carole Freeman: Yeah that’s I like that you’re sharing that too, because I found from my clients is that there’s a wide spectrum of how metabolically unhealthy people are. Me people like you that have a very strong athletic background and worked significantly overweight. You have a lot more metabolic flexibility.

You’ve got to that point that your body’s pretty healthy. And as long as you’re sticking. Real whole foods. I’m sure that you have a lot more leeway, but you’re also able to make the choice of eating the foods that make you feel the best instead of being stuck in cravings and food obsession,

Maria Shesiuk: Right.

Yeah. For example, today was an incredibly busy day and I didn’t even have time to make lunch. I didn’t have any breakfast food because I haven’t been grocery shopping. It’s just, this week has been a little bit of a disaster. I had some coffee this morning and like I’ve been seeing patients all day and I didn’t have to eat.

I did not have to eat until two, 3:00 PM. I wasn’t even hungry. And to me that is a sign of metabolic health because my body, like I don’t get, I don’t crash. My body just reverts to burning fat for fuel. My brain is working and I don’t have to eat. Then in the afternoon I had some sardines it’s not exciting.

Whatever it’s protein, it’s fat. When I come home, I might have something a little bit more exciting than that. That’s like another thing that is a gift of the low carb lifestyle is that I don’t have these constant food cravings and addiction. Like I can eat something that maybe isn’t very exciting or, it’s not going to give me a dopamine rush.

Because I look at food as fuel instead of entertainment.

And that really came from the low carb diet from this lifestyle, from everything that I’ve learned is understanding the food is fuel first. Maybe occasionally it can be entertainment, but not every day. All the time.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Oh, that’s so true.

We live in a world where people think they need to have dessert six times a day.

Maria Shesiuk: They get a lot of this I don’t like to eat that or don’t like to eat this. And it’s it’s okay to occasionally eat something. You don’t like very much to fuel your body properly.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. If food is your only entertainment, it’s really time to look at living a more balanced life.

A healthy, energetic, spiritual well-rounded person has more interests and things that they can turn to for entertainment.

Maria Shesiuk: Yeah. But I remember what it was like to have food as entertainment. I remember that feeling and it’s such a horrible trap to be in, to shift focus and to find other hobbies and find other things.

It doesn’t work that it’s not an overnight change. It actually takes practice. Every day I would wake up and, and practice doing those things. Eat a breakfast that’s that is full of fat and protein. Don’t get these crazy cravings and then work on finding something in my life that brings me so much joy that I stopped thinking about food.

Yeah. I’ll do things. But again, like if I didn’t stumble on the low carb diet, then I wouldn’t be doing all of that work.

Carole Freeman: How did you find that low-carb diet impacted your athletic performance? You’re a yoga instructor and Olympic weightlifter tell us how that impacted your physical things you like to do.

Maria Shesiuk: The Olympic weightlifting came a little bit later. That was two and a half years ago, actually. Prior to that, I was a long distance runner. Like I said, I did marathons and just long distance running in general, just for fun, basically. And I’m a yoga practitioner I’ve been practicing for about 10 years, a little bit less than the last two and a half years, just because of the Olympic weightlifting take up, takes up a lot of time.

For running, I basically, I didn’t need to refuel period. The only thing I had was it’s so fun because no goo and no bunking no, and no consequences of eating goo because it can never, my stomach couldn’t handle that. Yeah, I could run forever pretty much. Because even, I think even when you’re really lean, you have enough body fat to probably run a hundred miles, I’m, I wasn’t a sprinter.

Perhaps sprinters could use a little bit more glucose because it’s a highly glycolytic sport, but long distance running requires no sugar. Like you can just run on fat. Once I got fat adapted, running just became so easy, I just need a water and salt and then yoga. Yoga is not a glycolytic it’s not like I’m not gonna call a sport activity.

It’s not a glycolytic activity. You don’t need any carbs for yoga whatsoever. What I found was in my yoga practice, once I switched to low carb my focus improved. It was easier to get into that meditative state. My mind wasn’t constantly all over the place. I was way more focused and I could hold poses for a really long time, which I couldn’t actually do when I was very carved up.

And I didn’t have any cramping. I would go to these hot classes and not suffer any cramps or exhaustion or feeling like I’m going to pass out. But the in Olympic weightlifting, it’s been an interesting journey. For that, I should probably tell you for the past two and a half years, I’ve been experimenting, adding some carbs and then taking carbs away and adding some carbs.

And really, I haven’t, I can’t say that carbs have done anything magical for me in Olympic weightlifting. Sometimes if I’m training for a solid three hours and once it gets to the second half of my training session, I find that I’m getting a little bit slow. I’ll have a tablespoon of honey. Really that’s 25 grams of sugar.

But I’m still lifting for another hour and a half. By the time I’m done, there’s nothing left. I’ve tried that approach and that seems to work a little bit, but I don’t even always do that sometimes. I’m fine. Going through entire training session with that about anything. I can train that hard for three hours in a fasted state.

And that once again, that’s only because I spent so many years in this fat adapted state.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Oh, this is great. It’s the typical story, Maria, where. Oh, boring. Everything got better. Everything’s better.

Everything got better. I just, I’m having flashbacks of when I interviewed Dr. Ted Naimin the first time. I’m originally a Seattleite and interviewed him many years ago and asked him, what do you see gets better for people when they go low carb? And he says, everything, everything you can measure gets better.

Maria Shesiuk: I actually, I listened to that interview and I’m a huge fan of his of him. He he’s very protein centric. When I started eating more protein about three years ago when I went more down carnivores ish route I. Started feeling stronger. And I had even less cravings then.

Like I, the under eating of protein I was screwing myself for a number of years doing that. I really appreciated the information that he has provided in the low-carb space about, the importance of paying attention to protein. There’s also Don layman. I don’t know if you’re familiar with his work.

He is a researcher, a protein researcher who talks a lot about equality of protein, the amount that we need that I’ve listened to quite a few interviews with him as well.

Carole Freeman: Ooh, fun. A new person for me to rabbit hole on. I hadn’t heard of him. That’s one of the changes I’ve made over my journey as well.

And this is episode 47 of my show and my last episode, 46, I did my second. keto anniversary show and talked about the things that are different than the beginning. And the same thing for me in the beginning, we all thought we had to keep protein, adequate not too high. And that’s a big shift that I’ve made myself.

And then also with all of my clients and you’re right, it makes a big difference of reducing cravings overall better hair, skin and nails. A lot of my ladies would, as they were losing weight would lose a lot of hair. I did it as well. And now when I recommend a much higher protein intake for them, they don’t have that issue of the hair falling out anymore.

Maria Shesiuk: Yep. Acids are the building blocks of life, we probably getting enough.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. And another big influence of mine is Peter Attia. And he’s been talking recently about how little protein, like when he sees middle-aged women coming in, that’s the number one issue they have is they don’t eat enough protein.

It is. Interesting how much work it is to, to gradually. I usually stair-step my ladies into higher protein. I trick them and start them on 80 grams. And then I want them like a hundred usually or more. And first they’re like, it’s so much protein and I’m like, just wait. But once they get there, once they get used to having that much, they actually prefer that they feel better.

They choose, they crave the protein more than they do other things too.

Maria Shesiuk: Yeah, it is a hard change because protein, especially animal protein it’s not very exciting to eat, it doesn’t give you that dopamine rush. It’s boring. Yeah, it’s hard to make that change and also.

Like I’ve noticed in my patients, the patients that have been eating low protein most of their life, and maybe like a heart higher carbohydrate diet, they seem to have some enzyme deficiencies. They have a really hard time adjusting the proteins. They have to slowly help them build up to a better level of protein.

Carole Freeman: And. Yeah, they have, they need the amino acids from the protein to make the enzymes to digest the protein.

Maria Shesiuk: Yeah. Yeah, but I hear the story all the time. One of, one of the questions they asked, I just, I asked my patients, I tell them, give me your typical day of eating and, it’s like over and over again, I hear I have a hard boiled egg and a piece of toast and, fruit or my personal favorite steel cut oats with fruit and honey.

Yeah. I’m like where’s the protein, oh, I eat peanut butter, stuff like that.

Carole Freeman: Or a green smoothie with yogurt.

Maria Shesiuk: Or the protein powders, the endless protein powders.

I don’t know, in a way those are the easy patients because you make a few small changes and they’re like a million times better. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. How do you use low carb or ketogenic diets clean.

And like a million different way.

keto health care | KCL47

Carole as she chats with Physician Assistant, Maria Shesiuk, as she shares her keto journey to health.

Carole Freeman: Everything gets better.

Maria Shesiuk: Didn’t, we already conclude that.

We have, we certainly have plenty of patients with metabolic issues and elevated A1C is, my blood sugar. We have a lot of patients with chronic pain issues inflammation low carbohydrate diets, certainly reduce inflammation. It’s just it never ceases to amaze me how, patients go on a low carb diet for a while and they’re like, oh, I forgot to tell you that this back problem I had, I don’t have it anymore.

Carole Freeman: I’ve found that my people that had to go to the chiropractors a lot before, so sorry, chiropractors, but they’re just like, oh, I haven’t had to go in 30 days or a month or two. Oh yeah, my back feels great.

Maria Shesiuk: They’re having that same realization that I did when I realized that it was in fact, the ketogenic diet that cleared up my skin, not a surprise pregnancy.

Is that, oh, it can

do that. Yeah. Yeah. Have you heard this one as well? Maria. Cause this is one of the most I haven’t seen, and there’s no, I don’t, as far as I know, there’s no research on this as well, but a lot of my ladies, everyone who has ever experienced urinary and. That goes away as well.

And it’s one of those things as a mother, we’re told like, oh, that’s just part of pregnancy. You get torn up down there, get used to it. And one time on a group call, somebody shared that. And they’re like, this is a weird thing. Is anybody else note it? And everybody on the call was like, oh yeah, me too.

Somebody would say oh, it’s just less weight on there, but it goes away much faster than the amount of weight that you’d think that would have to be taken away from you. No pressure on the bladder. Somehow it just makes all the

muscles work better. It makes the muscles work better. And think about this, they could have a cystitis, right?

An inflamed gallbladder will not feel better. What am I saying? An inflamed bladder. And if you put them on a low carb diet, the inflammation is reduced. They don’t have that urgency. They don’t have the spasm anymore. It makes sense. I can’t say that personally have had clients where patients with that particular issue, but it makes sense when you think about the physiology of at all.

Yeah, absolutely. We also utilize it and I say low carb because, sometimes it’s ketogenic, sometimes it’s just low carb. We have, we offer mistletoe therapy here in the office and I don’t know if you’re familiar with mistletoe, but it is a like a supportive therapy for patients with cancer.

We do get patients coming here for various therapies that have cancer and we’re trying to add something to their conventional therapies. Oftentimes they do go on ketogenic diets to starve the cancer. That’s another application and I feel so, so honored fortunate that I can help.

Get, guide them through it. Like I have I’ve had two or three cancer patients that I’ve worked with remission, nutrition, which is it’s a service for ketogenic diets for cancer. But in addition to that, they have me as a resource, so they don’t have to go to that service every time they can just come to me and say, what do you think about this?

What do you think about that? When I can guide them through that. And I think that’s

Really cool.

Carole Freeman: Do you

Maria Shesiuk: with memory problems dementia, right? Yeah. Yeah. We’ve had that too. That’s a little bit more difficult because the memory problems, the dementia itself can make following ketogenic diet very difficult.

Carole Freeman: Yeah, once so many powerful applications of it. What kind of reception do you get from your your patients when you talk about this?

Maria Shesiuk: Oh, it’s all over the place. If I’m talking about low carb and that’s the term I’m using, then most patients are fine with it. They’re at least open-minded about it.

If I start going more towards a carnivorous diet, like a carnivore diet, not even calling it a carnivore, like a meat-based diet, they’re like, oh, wait a minute. It doesn’t meet cause cancer and, on and on. I get a lot of skepticism.

Carole Freeman: There’s all these terms. We have to come up with a light plant diet.

Maybe they’d accept that a little bit more a reduced plant diet versus a meat centric diet,

Maria Shesiuk: right? Yeah. Plant, animal-based. Yeah. Yeah, so the reception is all over the place and the word is getting out into the public sphere. People are a little bit more open-minded and certainly people that come here are very open-minded about all sorts of alternative therapies.

Carole Freeman: Do you do any work with like CGMs

Maria Shesiuk: Yes. Okay. CGMs are still very expensive. The one that I’ve been recommending, I probably shouldn’t be name-dropping. They’re expensive. I think that unless you were actually a diabetic or a type one diabetic insurance companies, don’t always cover them.

It has to be the right patient, basically patient with disposable income.

Carole Freeman: Mentioned it maybe they’ll sponsor the show

Maria Shesiuk: is the one that, yeah. But there, I can’t even afford it. I wanted to do it, but I don’t have that kind of cash. But yeah, I think it’s an incredible device.

It’s very useful. Because you do get immediate feedback on how you respond to certain foods instead of guessing, or having to prick your finger and the blood sugar meters are not very accurate. I remember that when I used to prick myself for for ketones and blood sugar, it was all over the place and I tried multiple eaters and I love the idea of using a CGM.

Carole Freeman: And you do the same. You do the stick a couple of times. The ten points. Yeah. Yeah.

Maria Shesiuk: And I think to myself, how did diabetics deal with this? Cause they can overdo the insulin. Yeah.

Carole Freeman: When those people that can afford the CGM, how do you recommend they try it out?

Maria Shesiuk: I usually recommend three months. I think three months is a really good timeframe.

Carole Freeman: Is that something that you find that is a helpful tool in getting people to convert to low carb? Like they can see I’ve seen this in some friends of mine online that they aren’t keto. But they’ve got the CGM and they’re like, oh my gosh, these foods, I don’t want to eat that anymore. Cause I had no idea what it was doing inside my body. Do you find that it helps people that are a little hesitant to go low carb?

Maria Shesiuk: Definitely. But I can’t say that my patients are the patients that agree to these things are not really super hesitant to begin with already on the path. But it’s just a great learning.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. More of a bio-hacker type of person.

Maria Shesiuk: That’s exactly right. Yeah.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. I think they’re great for, especially once you get to that point where you’re metabolically healthy and determining which foods work for you, which ones don’t and then what quantity of those another thing that comes up too is just how stress affects your blood sugar too.

One of my ladies that was finding out every time I go into this meeting at work, my blood sugar goes up 30 points, just thinking about going into it.

Maria Shesiuk: Yeah. That’s very interesting. Yeah. And I wonder about like my coffee consumption. I am a bit of a caffeine addict. How much my blood sugar is affected by.

I guess I’ll never find out because I can’t afford the CGM.

Carole Freeman: Come on Nutrisense, send Maria and a sample one. Maybe those there’ll be a I don’t want lower quality ones, but you know how there’s all the different companies now that put out like the glucose monitors and the ketone meters.

I get contacted all the time by Hey, you want to try this one out? And I’m thinking like, they’re probably not very accurate. Why would I want to waste my time on that? But maybe someday we’ll have some more affordable CGM monitors on the market. Yeah. I just think that for any style of eating a CGM is going to be pretty powerful.

Maria Shesiuk: 100%.

Carole Freeman: When you figure out what foods work for you in general,

Maria Shesiuk: 100%. Yeah, absolutely.

Carole Freeman: Yep. What is your current diet look like? You gave us some examples. Do you want to share, a typical day of, I guess you told us today but like maybe. Typical day of,

Maria Shesiuk: There’s a typical day of what I’m at home and there’s a typical day of when I’m at work.

I have been recently starting my mornings with actually raw eggs. I found that I digest, I tolerate raw eggs, much better than cooked eggs. I haven’t found the explanation for this phenomenon yet. I get my eggs from a local farm

Carole Freeman: are you doing, can I just this is a little area that I’ve studied a lot on.

Are you only doing the yolk?

Maria Shesiuk: No, I’m doing the yolk and the whites.

Carole Freeman: The white has a compound in there. Avidin, do you know about that and how it binds with biotin?

Maria Shesiuk: Yes, but I also talked to another nutritionist and he said that if you’re eating the yolk and the white together, and you have other sources of biotin, that it shouldn’t be.

Carole Freeman: I well, so I would challenge that because the avidin has a binding capacity for more biotin than in the yolk, of a typical egg, and it will bind with other biotin in your body. And over time it can start to cause a biotin deficiency. Yeah. This is why a cook, but cooking the white inactivates it but also maybe just toss out the white and just do the yolk part.

Maria Shesiuk: I need the protein. More yolks. Yeah, I just, the thought of throwing food out makes me sick to my stomach. I’m just so I can’t.

Carole Freeman: Yeah, maybe it’s so separate them and cook the yolk just a little bit. This is something I’ve I researched a lot. I used to teach nutrition classes too.

It’s it’s something I find is not really well known. Like for awhile there was people recommending. You put raw eggs in coffee. And that also it’s just not enough heat on the white inactivate that avidin that’s in there.

Maria Shesiuk: It’s really easy for me.

We actually have a LabCorp in the building, so it will be really easy for me to order a biotin test and take a look. Yeah, and then that was a concern of mine, but it’s like, there’s this back and forth on this issue. I’m like, all right, let me just do this for a while and see what happens.

Carole Freeman: Continue on raw….

Maria Shesiuk: What’s interesting. If I cook the eight eggs, I feel really sick. I just feel like I ate too much, but if I drink and this brings up an excellent point. This is why drinking your calories. When you’re trying to lose weight is a really bad idea. I’m not trying to lose weight.

I’m actually trying to maintain my weight because it’s so hard to maintain my muscle mass on my weight, doing what I’m doing in the Olympic weightlifting. That’s why I started drinking the eggs and I find that it doesn’t make me feel very full and I feel good. Like I just, I feel I’m not hungry, but I’m not stuffed.

And I’m getting this tremendous amount of super high quality nutrients and protein and fat soluble vitamins. That’s been my favorite breakfast recently. Sometimes I make a little smoothie with eggs and heavy cream. I know that sounds gross, but sorry.

Carole Freeman: I’ve had it taste amazing. It’s like eggnog, right?

Maria Shesiuk: It pretty much. Yeah. You add a little Stevia to, it tastes like eggnog, lunch. Sometimes they eat lunch sometimes I don’t. If I’m at work I’ll keep it simple and just either bring some leftover it’s a hamburger or brought worse, whatever we grilled the night before. And I love pickles.

I can’t live without my pickles. Pickles with everything. And then dinner is usually whatever we remember to defrost out of the freezer, buy whole animal. We buy a whole pig and a whole cow from a farm. And whatever’s at the top is what we pull out and defrost and it’s there on the grill. And then as far as like the plants go in and by the way so I do try to split up my protein intake throughout the day.

Like for example, I might not have a formal lunch, but I will have a can of tuna, which is like 40 grams of protein, or I’ll have a can of sardines something easy and quick to get in that extra protein. And then for dinner, I might have two or three burgers with cheese, with some pickles in a glass of milk.

Sometimes we grill bratwurst. We have lots of pork because we buy the whole animal. Ground pork with a little bit of vegetables just for flavor. My, my meals are very most people would say they’re boring, right? Because it’s just cook some meat with some salt and maybe a little vegetable here and there.

It’s just really simple.

Carole Freeman: It’s such an ancestral way of eating though. And for most of human existence, we ate very simply and we were much healthier,

Maria Shesiuk: The vegetable, now, like my, I’m growing cucumbers, so my cucumbers are gonna start coming up soon. But do you love cucumber?

The cucumber pickle thing, I have an obsession with cucumbers and pickles. I do like olives. I love so I have some arugula growing. I might load up on that. During the growing season and eat a little bit less of that in the winter time. Very simple. And like my salad dressing is really high quality olive oil and red wine vinegar.

That’s it. That’s all, it doesn’t need to be more than that. Yeah. Yeah.

If I really, if it really wants something sweet, I might have a little cup of yogurt with a few blueberries and like a teaspoon of honey and maybe some pecans. Like my go tos are occasional pecans, occasional blueberries.

Carole Freeman: What’s your favorite brand of olive oil?

Maria Shesiuk: This is almost embarrassing Kirkland brand. Extra-virgin. Organic extra-virgin olive oil. Oh. Because it tastes great. I think it won some awards for purity in the past, and that’s good to know. That’s why I started buying it in the first place.

Okay. And it’s, it has the bitterness and like that peppery taste of really high quality olive oil. Oh yeah. And it’s inexpensive.

Carole Freeman: I personally, I like to order Bariani, which they press their own and you’re right. When you get that real olive oil, it is so different than what most fake olive oil,

Maria Shesiuk: Most olive oils are really soybean oil.

Carole Freeman: You know that. Yeah.

Yeah. I assumed it was canola, which I don’t know if is any better or not, but

Maria Shesiuk: probably just as bad,

Carole Freeman: oh,

Maria Shesiuk: canola making process.

Carole Freeman: I have not, I can only, I remember. Google is going through like a chart of the 7,500 steps and all that kind of stuff.

Maria Shesiuk: Look up the videos on YouTube.

Oh, pretty disturbing.

Carole Freeman: I can only imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Was there anything else you were hoping I would ask about or anything else you want to share before we wrap this up?

Maria Shesiuk: I’m sure as soon as we’re done, I’m going to think of a million things that I should have said, but that’s how it goes.

I really appreciate you reaching out and doing this. And I’m so glad that we connected and now I have yet another resource for my patients. Oh, this is really great.

Carole Freeman: Now people can work with you in person. Did you figure out whether you can do any virtual consults or anything? We really can’t.

Maria Shesiuk: The first visit has to be in person, but the follow-up visits can be virtual.

Carole Freeman: Okay. If you can make your way to Maryland and go see Maria in person, then she could be your healthcare provider. But tell anyone that, that lives in Maryland or nearby there. If we need to spread the word about people that are doing the good work out there and helping people actually change their health for the better.

And let’s see. Next week’s episode is going to be the secrets of ending emotional eating. I’m relaunching my I have a program called the pathway to end emotional eating. It is a hundred percent of the psychology it’s based on a DBT dialectical behavioral therapy. And by popular demand, I’ve had a bunch of people reaching out and saying Hey, I kinda need something else here.

Next week’s episode is going to be all about information about. Why we emotional eat what it is? Why are, why we have feelings in the first place? Oh my gosh, they’re so annoying. Why do we even have to have feelings how we learn to use food, to cope with that, and the other ways that we do, and then how to begin to unravel that habit that we have and begin to address our true needs so that we can have healthy relationship with our emotions.

That’s going to be next week’s episode. So come back. Thank you again, Maria, for being here, if you’re out there also, how can they get in touch with you? Is there a website for your clinic?

Maria Shesiuk: Yeah, so it’s IntegrativeHealthPractices.org.

Carole Freeman: Check out Maria’s work and consult with her.

Maria Shesiuk: I also have an Instagram account. If anybody is interested in following me where I occasionally post what I eat and what I’m doing athletically

I go by Meeeaaty Maria.

This is funny. It’s Meeeaaty Maria and Keto Carole.

Carole Freeman: Okay. Oh my gosh. I love that Meeeaaty Maria. Okay.

Three E’s two A’s Meeeaaty Maria on Instagram.

How fun this has been. So fun.

Thank you so much, Maria, for being here and sharing the work that you do, your transformation, inspiring other people to do the same. Go check out her. On Instagram. And if you live in the Maryland area or you can get yourself out to Maryland, go check out IntegrativeHealthPractices.Org.

If you’re a struggling on keto and maybe you’re struggling with emotional eating come back next week, but also check out my website, KetoCarole.com.

And if you enjoyed the show, tell a friend, cause remember if you help us grow the show, we’ll help you shrink. And thanks again, Maria, for being here. Thank you. All the viewers and listeners, and we’ll see you next week. Thank you.

Connect with Carole:
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Top 5 Reasons People Fail on Keto | KCL44

Top 5 Reasons People Fail on Keto

Why do most people who try keto fail? Carole breaks down the top reasons people aren’t successful, from inaccurate info, to not doing things correctly, to the top side effects that throw people off, you don’t want to miss this episode if you’ve been struggling!

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Transcript:

Hello there everyone. How’s your day going? I’m flying solo today and we’re live. We’re live. We’re live. Hey, have you tried keto and you didn’t get the results. The, you see everyone else getting, let me get my notes up here. Do you wonder what you’re doing wrong? Do you wonder if maybe it just won’t work for you?

You wonder how you can get better results? Guess what this episode is for you stick around and learn the top five reasons why people fail on keto. Welcome everyone. Keto chat live. I’m your host Carole Freeman. I have a master’s degree in nutrition and clinical health psychology. I’m also a board certified keto nutrition specialist.

I specialize in helping women 40 plus follow keto diet for sustainable weight, loss, and health, and the thing to make my lawyers happy. Lawyers like I’ve got lots of them. This show is meant for educational and entertainment purposes. Only. It is not medical advice nor intended to diagnose, prevent, treat, or cure any position, any condition position, either not going to cure any positions either.

If you have questions or concerns related to your specific medical condition, please contact a qualified health provider. Preferably an integrated functional medicine doctor. How y’all doing today? Welcome. Welcome to the show. Are all my fans gone? Cause it’s a draft day in the NFL. Oh my beloved Seahawks lost a Russell Wilson and let’s see what we get.

Instead, he went to Colorado. News about the podcast. A couple things really cool is that my Sally K Norton episode about oxalate toxicity was charting last week and then nutrition, charts and podcasts in Canada. So that’s really cool. And that’s the third time I’ve interviewed her. And every time I do, it’s one of the most popular episodes I’ve got way back when I just did YouTube interviews.

And now that I’ve got a podcast very popular also you may be watching this on Spotify. So Spotify just launched video podcasts on there. And so we’re going to start uploading all of those there. So you can watch me live Thursdays 4:00 PM Pacific on Facebook and YouTube. You can also listen and he plays, you listened to podcasts and you can also watch replay on Spotify as well.

Top 5 reasons people fail on keto

Top 5 reasons people fail on keto

So if you’re watching there, Hey, hello. Glad you’re with us. All right. Hey, let’s just get into the teachings today. I could rant about my day. Do you want to hear that? Is that funny? I actually may want to try this thing this life. I I heard this technique for writing comedy is that you take something that you think is bad and then you rant about it being good.

Or vice versa, something that you think is a good thing or people generally think is good. And then you rant about being bad. So maybe I could just try this about the water service that I had today. So out here in Phoenix you don’t drink the tap water just doesn’t taste good. It’s very hard water.

And so either go to store and buy water, have a service that delivers it. I’ve had a service, has been delivering it and there’s an issue. I needed updates. Credit card and their website just wouldn’t work. I kept trying to kept trying over the last few weeks and wouldn’t work. And so I tried calling their customer service number.

Literally the first time I called it said, no agents are available. Please call back later click. I was like what is this? Like 1992 or something? And so today, again, I’m trying to resolve this issue and. The chat box on their website doesn’t even work. I’m trying to update payment any which number of ways.

And so I’m like, how can I get ahold of these people so I can get some more water? I just said, oh, I’m gonna message him on Facebook. I finally got a real person on there. They told me, oh, here’s how you update it on the website. I said, I’ve tried that. And then they told me to call phone number. I call it.

First, I get a message that says your call did not go through. Then I call and it’s a busy signal. When is the last time you ever called anything? I get a busy signal. I called four times in a row.

so I’m telling this person whoever on Facebook and they’re like, oh wow. We should report this to our Texas. Yeah, how’s nobody let you know that in a month or more your phone doesn’t work. Like how the call center, people just sitting there going wow. Another slow day. Again, no phone calls coming in.

This is school. Let’s just go chat in the break room. Can I rant about this being like a great thing? It’s so great that I couldn’t get any water service because most people drink too much anyways. And I’ve got a big pool here, actually two pools at my apartment complex. So what do I need to have people delivering water to me for?

I could just go old fashioned style with a bucket to the pool. Strain it through an old t-shirt or something like that. So it’s really good. It was a waste of money for me to have people bring it to me. Like I could have gone to the grocery store and carted five gallons at a time up and down the stairs.

Like I use some exercise that would have been good for me. What else is good about not being able to get the water? Oh, it actually, it stretched my brain. The normal routes of customer service didn’t work. And so I had to be resourceful. I had to think of another way to contact these companies.

And they’re also going to charge a $50 fee when I returned the water disappeared. And they’re like, it was in the contract you signed when you signed up, we charge a $50 refurbishing fee because we care about sanitation. And in these challenging times we need to thoroughly sanitize it before we send it out to somebody else.

And you knew that when you signed up, I was like, oh, so basically you’re charging me a $50 fee to cancel my service. Clever, very clever. Another reason not to like this company. Should I name them? Should I name this company? Is anybody want to know who it is? All right. We’ve got some people watching you, everyone watches from all over water services, only its thing in the south.

All right. Anyways, that was fun. Those are fun exercise to try to argue the opposite of how I feel about something. Yeah. Tell me your latest, fun customer service jury. See if you can argue for the positives of when something didn’t go, it’s it actually makes it fun. I grew up in a family where the way we told stories, we just vent about stuff and you know, complaining humorously.

And so I like this new challenge of. Twisting it into the positives of it. And I actually feel lighter about it. And we’re just coming off the retreat for my clients for this last weekend. And so my long-term membership, people call it the keto lifestyle crew and their crew members. And twice a year, we do a virtual retreat.

And so this last weekend, we’re just coming off of that and everyone loved it. We had such a great time. One of the exercises I had people do is it paired them up in twos and had them do a feelings, validation, exercise. And we talked about emotional intelligence and how often we don’t learn how to have feelings or acknowledge them well, or allow ourselves to have feelings, whether they’re good or bad.

And a lot of people end up learning to use food, to cope with life and to numb out their feelings. And so we did a short little exercise. Validating feelings for people. And w we did it a little breakout sessions on zoom. You can actually go and private little breakout sessions and then come back to the big session.

And I’ll say we had some tears after that, just being able to acknowledge feelings and have somebody witness and hear what it is. Acknowledge a feeling. And it was really powerful. It was really moving. And for a lot of the ladies that might’ve been one of the first times that they actually had somebody really just listen.

Cause we have a tendency when people are having an issue or a challenge or complaining venting about something we don’t like when people don’t feel comfortable. And so we often want to just fix it for them. Okay. Instead of actively listening, just listening, we, oh, did you try this? And how about that?

Should you try this and that actually feels invalidating. And so I challenge you it later today, tonight, whenever in the world time, it is for you that if you have somebody that’s telling you something, just listen, reflect back. Wow. That made you really frustrated. I hear you saying. That you were really sad.

I hear you saying that, that made you feel left out. Just repeat back, summarize what you heard and then just name a feeling forum who usually it moves things in a very surprising way. And often when we’re having those kinds of challenges or venting about something, we just need to be validated. We just need somebody to hear us and say, yes, you had that feeling and it’s okay that you have that feeling.

Of course you have that feeling. Try that with your partner next time. If they’re upset about something, just listen, validate the feeling don’t fix anything. Don’t suggest any fixes. Ah, it’s a challenge for yourself to be able to just sit with the feeling of somebody else’s well, without trying to fix it.

And it’s a good. That person feeling heard and validated, and it really goes a long way at removing the desire to use food, to numb out for something just by naming your own feelings and having your feelings validated in general. So a bonus little story tip there. All right. Our topic for today, I’m like, are we getting messages from our viewers?

Not yet. So I can see we’ve got people here live, go ahead and join the show. Like I love I’m here by myself. I don’t have a co-host today or a guest interview or anything. So join me, keep me company and let me know where you’re joining from. I can’t see who you are until you actually comment. If you’re on, I can see we’ve got a couple of people on YouTube watching.

And so join the conversation, let me know where you’re joining from and let’s get into my teaching segment for today. So the top five reasons that people fail on keto now coming up next month, may of 2022, it’s going to be my seven year anniversary of following keto of starting my keto journey. And I’m going to have a very special episode for.

Correlating for that. I don’t know what I’m going to do yet, but it’s going to be great. Just a couple of weeks, two or three weeks. I don’t know. And so I’ve worked with a lot of ladies, like I said, I specialize in helping people 40 plus follow keto for sustainable weight loss and optimal health. And I’ve learned so much along the way actually.

That’s what I’m going to talk about on my anniversary. I’m going to talk about the things that are different now than what I thought when I first started and things I’ve changed my mind on and things of that I’ve learned, surprising things I’ve learned along the way. That’s what’s going to be on my anniversary show in a few weeks.

All right. And so anyways, this top five reasons that people fail in keto is all the experience I’ve had. So I work a hundred percent of my practice is working with real people. And that’s all I’ve done is keto implementation. The last. Six and a half years that I’ve been doing this work. So I started keto myself.

Years ago. And it was about six months later than that. I started actually working six or eight months after that, that I started working with people and helping them implement it. So that’s why I say six and a half years of doing this and I’ve lost count, but probably somewhere around a thousand people that I’ve talked to and help support with this.

And so I’ve learned a lot along the way. So today I’m just going to give you the top five reasons. I see why people fail on keto. So I have people that reach out to me. I work with my clients by application only. I spend at least an hour with them on a zoom call, getting to know them, their challenges, their goals why it’s so important.

And I would say more than half of them have already tried keto on their own. They got some results, but it didn’t really work as well as they thought it should. Or maybe they got some results and then they started gaining the weight back. Some of the people I’m also working with have never tried keto on their own.

But they just get so overwhelmed. They’re spending a lot of time watching every video and they’ve got all the books and the cookbooks and try to read everything you can on the internet. And they’re just overwhelmed and confused about how to even get started. And there they’ve read some horror stories online, so they’re afraid to do it wrong.

And so today that’s what I’m going to share with you is what I’ve seen as the top five reasons why people fail on keto and by fail. Didn’t get it to work that they wanted the way they want it to. Okay.

Number 1 Reasons People Fail on Keto: Cravings

And these are in no particular order. I can’t say that one is more common than the other.

And typically when people fail, try and keto on their own, it’s multiple of these, all of these, probably not just one thing was their saboteur. So one of them is cravings, right? When you’re trying to go low carb, you’re trying to. Sugar and most high carb foods and starches cravings can be really overwhelming.

I work with a lot of people that are self-proclaimed sugar addicts and they think it’s impossible that they’ll never be free of those sugar cravings, but my approach gets some craving free. One of the ways the mistakes that people are making is that they’re going for sugar-free sweeteners.

They’re going for low calorie sweeteners, they’re keto friendly sweeteners, right? They think that’s how you cope with cravings. However, that is the wrong way to go about it, because if you crave sweet and then you have something sweet, you’ve actually just told your brain to reinforce the craving you craved, you gave it what it was.

And basically it’s like saying good job. Do that again and do it more. So I, I have the story. Some of you maybe have seen me. And when I do talks at conferences, I tell this story about raccoons. And this is a really good example of how cravings show up in our lives. So I approximately 10 years ago, or so I My first condo all by myself and I moved in and was enjoying the evening standing out on my balcony.

It was a two story building. I was on the top floor and I’m looking out on a shared courtyard among my neighbors and it’s dusk. And I see a pack of beady, little eyes running across the little shared grassy courtyard. That catches my attention. Oh no, what’s going on here? What did I get myself into? What wild animals are running loose down there.

And then I noticed that my neighbor bill directly below me, slides her slider open and puts out two baking sheets full of what looks like cat food and packs. I don’t know. I’m probably 50, maybe a hundred raccoon. Raccoons. Is it raccoons? Come running. And it’s obvious, this is not the first time this has happened.

This lady didn’t just put out two trays of cat food one night. Cause she thought, it’d be fun just to see who comes and feeds. So I asked her, I’m like, what are you doing? Cause I know it’s crazy. It’s crazy to put out food and feed wild animals because they just tell their friends to come back.

I’m like, what are you doing? Crazy lady. And she told me, she says It’s one night, I was just really hungry raccoon scratching to my door, and I just felt so bad for it. So I put out some cat food for it. And the next day, at the same time it came back, but it brought a friend and the next day three more came.

And now you see what happens, how many come. I was like, what are you why you keep feeding them? And she says I tried to stop, but they scratched off. They literally scratched off my screen door and the scratch up the glass on my door. I have to feed them now because they will ruin my door if I don’t do it.

And I realized, this is the story of how cravings work. When you have a little tiny cream, just one little craving and you feed it, you give the craving what it was. It tells us it’s friends and they come back exactly the same time. But with reinforcements, this is how cravings work. This is why people get to the point where they’re sugar addicted is that they have a little sugar craving.

They have some sweet, and the thing is your brain. Can’t tell the difference between what’s real sugar and. Is fake sugar. Okay. So all it knows is I need sweet and then you give it sweet and it goes, yay. I’m going to tell my friends to come back tomorrow. That’s what cravings are. So the way out. Yeah. So Linda says, so you feed it, it will come back a hundred percent and worse.

Okay. So this is my cravings. Get out of control. Is that people think that I need to have a dessert. I need to have a keto dessert. I need to have diet soda. I need to have some kind of sweet thing I need to have treat. That’s how I cope with my cravings, but actually what they’re doing. What you’re doing is you’re reinforcing that craving.

You’re telling it to come back stronger and exactly at the same time. And so this is how people ended up being this, sugar addict. So the solution is don’t feed the raccoons. You have to go. I recommend at least 30 days, no sweeteners at all. So this is diet soda, anything you put in your coffee, that’s sweet.

This is Stevia or worth total. I don’t care how natural or anything. It is anything sweet needs to go. Bye-bye for at least 30 days. This is how you get rid of cravings. And again, I’ve worked with people so severe that they are self-proclaimed sugar addicts and they think they can never get over it because the cravings are so severe for them.

They are craving free. So my clients get the gift of no cravings. Okay. And so that’s one of the keys is no sweeteners. Now, just if you stop beating the pack of raccoons the first couple of days, they’re not going to be happy. They’re going to scratch at the door, but you have to stay strong, but up some buffers on your door and they will go away eventually.

A couple of days, two, three days is all that you have to get through. But we’ve got other strategies that I help people with that make it a lot easier. It’s a lot easier than they think it is. Because of what they’ve been doing is just reinforcing them. And so that’s number one, the other thing you want to do to avoid cravings is avoid sensory input.

So what do I mean by sensory input? Like you want to not look at sweet things. Don’t go spend all your days online, looking at Pinterest and YouTube videos of cooking, videos and recipes. Cause all that’s gonna do is make you crave. Don’t don’t think about your fantasize about your former Kirby foods that were your favorite.

Don’t mention them the sound of it, we’ll cue a craving in your brain as well. You don’t want to hear them. Some carby foods like have a sound, a specific sound with them. So you want to avoid that as well. And so do all you can to avoid queuing a craving. So sensory input is what, so you don’t want even just a taste of it.

So I’ve had some people that are like, oh, I just put it in my mouth and chew it up and spit it back out. No, the taste of it, cues the craving as well. So avoid all sensory input and don’t even go down the aisle of the grocery store. I still to this day, like if there’s the clearance section after the holiday of all the.

I don’t even, I don’t even look at that. Don’t look at that table. Those cravings can get turned back on at any time. That’s number one reason why people fail on keto is that they don’t know how to manage cravings. They don’t know how to get rid of cravings. They just know how to reinforce them.

Number 2 Reasons People Fail on Keto: Not Losing

Number two, again, these are in no particular order is that they aren’t losing weight. They eat. Don’t lose weight or they stop losing weight and then they lose their motivation. They be sad. It’s not worth it. And the truth is that keto is not a one size fits all diet. There’s no one approach that works for every single person and it’s not.

You just get your calorie limit online and the news follow that it needs to be individualized from the amount of protein and how, how much fat and how much salt, how much water and you need adjustments to those numbers along the way. There may be medications you have that need some support all kinds of things that make things different for every single person.

And so what I found for my clients is one thing is you need multiple measures of success everywhere. Got their eyes trained on the scale and all they want to see is the number go down every single week, every single day. And if it doesn’t, they give up really quickly and easily. So sometimes the scale does not go down every single week.

So you need to have multiple measures of success. What does that mean? I want to see some labs at the start and we’re going to check those again at the end, and we’re going to be able to see improvements on the inside of your body, your waist measurement, take photos, your skin may change and clear up it will.

Your face will get slimmer that you won’t even see them looking in the mirror every day. We want to measure all the other non-scale things as well. Your energy, your mental clarity got rid of headaches and aches and pains. Any number of other things that have issues gas and bloating and constipation and all kinds of things like that.

So you want to keep a journal of these things, keep track of them, measure all the things that are getting better, your blood pressure your blood glucose numbers, and on. And. One thing you need multiple measures of exp success. You also need to have an expert that has experienced in this and how to coach you through those times when the scale is not moving, how to adjust your macros.

A lot of people also under eat protein. This is something that we’ve learned that most of us got it wrong in the beginning. You don’t need to limit protein. In fact, most people I’m working with are grossly under eating protein and they have their whole life. You also want to avoid things that are easy to overeat.

So I teach an intuitive type of keto that you’re able to eat foods when you’re hungry and you can stop when you’re full and we don’t have to count calories. You can do that if you avoid things like recipes, because when you make a recipe. The food is tastier and you will eat more of it sweeteners again, like I said before, but also anything that has sweetener in it, you will eat more of it than if it had no sweetener in it desserts!

Always extra calories. Those are always things you’re going to eat more of and you won’t be able to have an off switch with those also avoid liquid calories. That’s another pitfall that people fall into is they do tons and tons of fat in their coffee or other liquids. And they think that fat is a free food.

So that’s actually a number. Number four is about fat. I’ll talk about that more in a moment. You really want to avoid liquid fats because it bypasses also tidy and you can get in thousands of calories in liquid form. So there’s lots of reasons why people aren’t losing those are some highlights snapshots of things that I’ve seen and recommendations that I have for my clients.

Number 3 Reasons People Fail on Keto: Side Effects

All right. Number three reason why people fail on keto is the side effects. Of doing it wrong. Okay. So people may be say like, oh, I tried keto and I had blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Happen. People get side effects when they don’t do it correctly. This is another reason why for people that have any symptoms that come up or any side effects that come up, you need an expert to guide you through that.

A lot of the side effects that people have on keto of doing keto wrong are because they’re not getting the salt. Episode. Let’s see, what episode do we talk about salt episode four. So if you’re new to the show, go back and listen to episode four that I talk all about salt, that whole episode, about why you need so much, how to know if you need.

And so on and so forth, but it’s something pretty much every single coaching call I have with my clients where talking about salts and most people need way more than they think they do or that they’re doing currently. And so again, most of the side effects that people are having are because they’re not getting the salt, right?

So constipation, muscle cramps, lightheaded, dizziness, sleep, disturbances, her palpitations, even all of those are going to. Things that are going to come up. If you’re under eating salt also hunger, not enough protein doing the wrong kind of fat. And, or not enough salt as well, people will feel hungry.

They’re like, where is this magic keto, no appetite that people talk about. Oxalate detox can come up for some people as well. So go back and listen to my episode with Sally K Norton, if you want to know more about oxalates, but. keto for the most part for most foods is very low oxalate. And then the body starts doing a better job at detoxification.

And so sometimes when people have a buildup of oxalates in their body starts detoxing them and they can have some symptoms like kidney stones or maybe some back pain, which is the kid, the kidneys, trying to release oxalates, other random aches and pains and joints and other areas and tissues and things like that as well.

Some people need a little more support with oxalate detox if that’s happening. And if people are on any medications at all, there are going to be some adjustments needed. So you need to have a doctor that’s knowledgeable and can supervise and adjust medication. So you can have things like potential potentiation effects, meaning that the dose you had before just is too much.

Yeah. Also sometimes the other alternate happens too, because your liver actually up-regulates detoxification routes on keto. And so sometimes your medication gets detoxed like turns into the inactive form much faster. And so sometimes people need a higher dose than what they were on before.

How do you deal with this? For one, if you’re somebody that has tried keto and you are like, oh man, the side effects, I can’t even deal with it again. If you’ve got somebody who knows what they’re doing, you don’t have to have any of these issues. They should be non-issues, but you’re going to need an expert.

You don’t need somebody. Who’s had a lot of experience working with a lot of different people to know how to deal with this. Oh, the other one I’m going to add too, is that for some people they get lit Lim. Yeah. So some people, their lymphatic system is not very healthy and they may get some swelling as the body starts trying to move fluid and fats through the lymphatic system.

And that’s also something. Can I help my clients with, we do have them do self lymphatic massage, and then it’s no longer issue. But for some people that may cause like swelling in their neck and their head, they may have swelling in their hands and their feet. And so if you were somebody that tried keto and have that you don’t have to have that issue, but you’d need some support.

You need somebody who knows how to deal with that. I look at it as a good sign that your lymphatic systems finally getting fluids moving through it like it should, but the fact that it’s having a sluggishness and some swelling means that it needs some support. It’s not as healthy as it could be. And so having an expert that can support you with that too.

Top 5 reasons people fail on keto

Why do most people who try keto fail?

So adequate salt expert guide, having a doctor supervise any medications that. Those are the things you need to avoid any side effects. So that was number three.

Number 4 Reasons People Fail on Keto: Too Much Fat

And so number four reason that people fail on keto is too much fat. Now, back when I started this that, just a little sneak peek of my seven year anniversary show.

Where I’m going to talk about things that I’ve learned and changed my mind about is a, we didn’t think you could get too much fat. We thought that fat was free. We thought this was all about insulin. And as long as insulin was low, you could eat as much fat as you wanted. We thought you had to limit protein.

Fat was a free food and just limit. So it turns out that fat is not a free food. Our cells, your fat cells can easily take up fat. And in fact, when you consume a high fat meal, some of it gets burned immediately, but most of it just goes into your fat cells for storage until they need, it needs to come out and for you to burn it.

And despite what may many people. That is not a free food. It readily goes into your fat cells. And if there’s more of it going in than coming out, getting burnt that yields either no weight loss or weight gain, you literally can gain weight on a keto diet and some of the pitfalls of. Consuming too much fat is that they’re drinking liquid fat.

Like I talked about before, they’re putting, they’re doing like the the fatty coffees or the Bulletproof coffee, where you just put tons and tons of fat in your coffee. Again, liquid calories bypass all of her satiety cues. And so you literally can consume thousands of calories and not feel any difference in satiety from that.

So avoid liquid fat, avoid drinking your. You only need fat to fill. And by that, I that’s a phrase that Dr. Jeffrey Gerber uses that fat to fill is a couple of things. So one fat to fill your appetite. So a little bit of fat, the right kind of fat, especially saturated fat is going to activate satiety hormones.

So we’ve got gut hormones that turn on are released when we have saturated fat in a meal. And that actually will slows down. Digestion. And it also turns off our appetite. It makes us feel completely satiated. So you only need as much as needed to get that. And also we’ve got nutrients that are, in fact, we’ve got four fat-soluble vitamins, vitamin A, D, E, and K that they exist in naturally occurring fats and food.

And then they also need to be digested, absorbed and transported in our body with fat there, along with it. So that’s the fat is too. Fill up our appetite satisfy our appetite and also nourish our body. But it’s not as much as you don’t need hundreds of grams of fat depending on how active you are or what your overall body mass is to start with.

But you don’t need as much as you think you do. And if you over consume fat, you will gain weight. You will not be losing weight. You can gain weight.

All right. How’s everybody doin?

Number 5 Reasons People Fail on Keto: No Mirror Neuron Support

Ready for number five. All right. Number five reason why see that people fail on keto is they don’t get their mirror neurons supported. What is this? So the truth is we live in an obesogenic world. What does that mean? That sounds terrible. It means that everything in the world, outside of what we carefully choose to put in her mouth, everything out there is conspiring to get us to eat as much as possible, buy as much food as possible to crave it, consume it uncontrollably, and to move as little as possible.

All the food manufacturers drive-throughs bending machines. Parties at work birthday parties and all kinds of events, restaurants that are convenient. All of that is designed to just get us to eat as much as possible gain as much weight as possible and not move and keep craving and eating more.

We’re designed to overeat, highly palatable foods. So highly palatable. Are things that have fat and carbs together in them. So they’re, they can be either sweet and fat or real carbs and fat. So that combination is accuse our brain to just eat it uncontrollably. So all snack foods, most junk food, fast food is this combination, all desserts and everything that we call comfort food.

All of that is that combo of fat and sweet or fat and carbs together. All of it. That’s why we feel like, oh my gosh, I can’t stop eating this. Almost all foods that Thanksgiving, American Thanksgiving, almost all those foods are that combo of fat and carbs together. Our brains are wired to crave that and overeat it.

And the interesting thing is that whatever the ingredients in those things are, if you separate them out and you had to eat them individually, you would not eat as much as the mixed together. Okay. So like plain potato. All by itself and a stick of butter. Okay. If you had to eat them separately, you had to eat the dry plain potato, and then you had to eat a stick of butter.

You wouldn’t eat very much of either of those, but when you bake that potato and then you lather it up with butter, turn it into mashed potatoes, or just a baked potato with a butter on it, then you eat the whole thing very easily, all of it. And when. So that’s an example of the highly palatable combination.

Again, just the same exact foods, separate eating one first and then eating the other. You won’t eat hardly very much of that at all, but when you mix them together, our brains go on the nom. I can’t stop. So we’re designed for that. We’re wired to eat that way. And we also, our brains are wired to mirror the behavior.

Anyone we hang out with, this is true of all animals on this planet. It’s what makes any like birds be able to fly in a V formation with other birds. They’re just there, the mirror neurons connect directly to our muscles. And we just copy, literally copy the behavior of the person that we’re looking at.

So this is the phenomenon. If you’ve ever been to like a Mexican restaurant and they bring the chips and stuff. And other people start to grab and eat it. And then you’re like, oh, I’m doing keto. I’m not going to have this. But every once in a while, you’ll notice that your arm just goes and reaches for it.

And you’re like, what am I doing? I’m not even consciously doing this, but I just, my arm just keeps doing it. That’s weird. This is the mirror neurons that are copying the behavior of the people around you. Food manufacturers know about mirror neurons, too. That’s why in food commercials, they show somebody eating or drinking.

The thing that they want you to. Because you see a human doing that and you instantly will want it as well. So back up to number one with the cravings avoiding sensory input is that if you’re watching a movie and they’ve got a scene like that, or they’ve got a commercial someplace video coming up, look away, turn turn the channel, go do something else.

Don’t watch that because that’s going to turn on cravings for you. Empower yourself. If we’re it in most of the people I’m working with, most of the people that are trying to do keto on their own, they’re the only person they know their family’s eating carbs. The rest of their friends are eating carbs and it won’t be long until they fall off the wagon and they’re eating what the rest of the people are.

And this is mostly due to mirror neurons. And so is it hopeless? Do we just give up now it turns out that we can. Fortify your willpower by creating a group of people that you hang out with that do follow keto. So your habits are the average of your five closest friends that you hang out with. So think about this.

This is true. Who do you spend the most time with? What lifestyle do they have? And I bet yours is very similar and you need to hang out with, you need to visibly see, right? Because your mirror neurons are what others that have the habits that you want. So that’s one of the things I’ve found in the six and a half years of doing this work with my clients.

Now, in the very beginning, I would work with people one-on-one like most nutritionists, right? Where, all right, good job today, Susie, I’ll see you next week for your appointment next week. And we’ll check in on your results. Th Susie would come. And tell me how she couldn’t stick with it. And she cheated and I’m too nice.

And I didn’t get mad. I was, but I felt so frustrated. I thought, what am I, how am I not helping her? How can I help her stay on track? If she could just do it, she’s going to feel so much better, but I can’t control what doesn’t happen when she’s not here and or what happens when she’s not here. And I found out I started having group coaching and then.

Such a big difference at that time, I called it positive peer pressure. So people show up, they report their results for the week and you don’t want to be the one person that’s going to say oh, I just didn’t stick with it. So you want to be belong. You want to be part of the group.

You want to also be able to report your success. We copy the behaviors of those people that were around. And so I noticed that the people that showed up. At least once a week for a group meeting, they were able to stay on track. So that, or something about that amount of time, it doesn’t take a ton of time for most people, but being able to hang out with the part of the group of people you belong.

So this is part of why my long-term membership is called the keto lifestyle crew. You’re a crew member hanging out with your crew of keto people four to five is your mirror neurons. I call it. Recharges or willpower battery. So if you struggle with staying on track because of the rest of the world, I feel like it’s conspiring against you with all the carbs and the obesogenic nature of it.

If you struggle with that, you’ve got to find an expert to work with that has that built into their program. That they’ve got a group of people that are very successful, that you can copy their behavior as well. So that’s my number five reason that people fail on. That was fun. It was that fun. All right.

Upcoming shows. Just little teasers for you. We’ve got a show coming up next. It’s going to be keto coaching for women talking about what women need. Maybe a little bit differently than what men need. And on May 12th, if you’re watching live, or if you’re just listening to the recordings, this will be coming out in a couple of episodes, but.

Join me live will be my special episode. My seven year keto anniversary. I can’t believe it’s been that long. And I’m going to share with you things that are different than when I started and what I’ve changed my mind about and what’s, what I see coming up in the future too. All right. So again, today’s episode, we talked about the top five reasons.

I’ve seen that people fail on keto, cravings, not losing weight. The side effects of doing it wrong too much fat and not supporting those mirror neurons. All right. So if you’re struggling with keto and you’re looking for that expert in your life to help you with this, I’m here to help. I work by application only with my clients.

So visit my website. Let me put that on the screen. We’ve got keto Carole.com. Carole is spelled the very, very fancy French spelling with an E on the end. So that’s K E T O. Carole is C a R O L e.com. Visit my website, read what’s there. If that resonates with you, fill out the application and we’ll see if it’s a match to work together and I can help you bypass all of these failure things.

Support the show. I’d love to see a review on one of the podcasts platforms. Make a comment below as well. If you’re watching on YouTube or on Facebook, leave a comment about what you enjoyed about the show and share with your friends. Remember help us grow the show and we’ll help you shrink. So that’s all for this time.

Thank you so much for being here, Stephanie. Glad you enjoyed it. All right, everyone have a wonderful rest of your day until next time. We’ll see you. Bye.

Connect with Carole:
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Keto for Mental Health | KCL42

Keto for Mental Health

After years of chronic pain and fatigue, licensed mental health therapist Nicole Laurent discovered the power of a ketogenic diet to get her off all her medications and free of chronic pain and gain boundless energy. And now she helps her clients discover the healing power, too, for mental health and neurological conditions.

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music 

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Transcript:

Carole Freeman: Hey everybody. Are you wondering if there’s something more you could do for anxiety, depression, pain?

Do you wonder if your diet could actually improve your mental health? We’ll stick around because this episode is for you. I’m so excited. We’re talking with Nicole Laurent, licensed mental health counselor about the keto diet for mental health. So welcome, welcome everyone to keto chat live. I’m your host Carole Freeman.

I have a master’s in nutrition and clinical health psychology as well as a board certification in keto nutrition specialists. I specialize in helping women 40 plus follow a keto diet for sustainable weight loss. And let me share the bio of our guest today.

I’m very excited to have Nicole. She completed her master’s in clinical psychology from Argosy university in 2007, and has worked in private practice working with a variety of populations for over 15 years using evidence-based behavioral practices, such as behavioral therapies CBD EMDR and DBT.

And a little bit more, more about Nicole after having her own profound health experience with dietary change involving therapeutic carbs. Boy, I think I haven’t used my mouth enough today. It’s not warmed up yet. I should have done like the exercises that singers do or something. Let’s say involving therapeutic carbohydrate restriction, she began to become interested in nutritional therapy for neurological disorders and mental illness.

She began to talk about food choices with patients and use therapy skills to help clients remove resistance to behavioral change and learn how to use nutrition, to feed and heal their brains. She has since received additional training in the use of nutritional and integrative therapies to treat mental illness.

And neurological disorders and has begun to pivot her practice to helping people use these therapies exclusively. She finds using these methods with therapy to be powerful and transformative for the people she has the honor to work with. And so welcome, Nicole Laurent.

Nicole Laurent: Hi, thank you for having

Carole Freeman: me. Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Gosh, where should we begin? So let’s start, let’s see. I want to go back before you discovered keto. So what got you into mental health counseling?

Nicole Laurent: Ah, so I, what got me into mental health counseling let’s see. I realized that all the books around me were about relationships and that maybe that was an interest for me.

So that’s what that’s what set me up to go to clinical school for clinical psychology. And yeah, that’s, I’ve always been interested. I know that when it comes to. Relationships that are not healthy, that there is a profound amount of suffering that comes along with that. And so I think that is probably what drew me to it was that there’s a lot of pain in that area.

And yeah, that’s what I, that’s where I started.

Carole Freeman: All right. Let’s then go into your discovery of a therapeutic carbohydrate restriction, which some may call a keto diet. That’s the trendy term for it right now, but yeah. How did you even get on your own journey?

Keto for Mental Health with Nicole Laurent

Keto for Mental Health. After years of chronic pain and fatigue, licensed mental health therapist Nicole Laurent discovered the power of a ketogenic diet to get her off all her medications and free of chronic pain and gain boundless energy.

Nicole Laurent: Discovering this? I developed a chronic pain disorder in graduate school. I had spondylosis and I got some trigeminal neuralgia, which is a nerve pain in the face. That’s pretty severe. And it also, I got chronic migraines every single day, and I was desperate and going to doctors and trying to figure it out while going to graduate school.

Ended up getting, later it got fixed with a with a neurostimulator of all things lay after many years of suffering, I got a a neurostimulator implanted in, and it reprogrammed that area where the pain was coming from. And that was fantastic. But by then I had been talked into pain medications and I remember the conversations.

I remember being in tears when I finally gave in to get on those beds, I was like, you’re sure you promise we can get me off these, there’s not going to be a problem. And they swore up and down and they promised, and they said, this is really the only treatment for what’s going on for you.

No one had mentioned that there was like a $40,000 surgery that could be done to fix it. Let’s put them on pain meds first. And I just happened to be one of those people that every time they tried to detox me off of it, after the. Fixed it wouldn’t stick. So there’s these bridge medications that they use, Suboxone Subutex.

My liver wouldn’t handle one. I would detox really painful process with it still and then be back on it. So I was stuck on the bridge medication for years and years. And the bridge medications and pain medications disrupt your hormones, disrupt your neuro-transmitters deplete, your nutrition, right?

Drug induced, nutrient depletion is a thing. And so by the time I finally had a successful detox I was completely debilitated for a good month. Like I could barely get off the couch and my brain was mush. Like my brain was mush, whatever came through my mind, it just came out of my mouth.

I had no frontal lobe left. I just really did it. And that eventually got a little bit better, it was like two years after my detoxification. And I was still like, my brain was not the way I wanted it. My brain was not quite where I was like, when I was in graduate school, I was one of those people they’d say, tell me about this.

And I could see a book page and the page number and actually see some of the paragraphs that I had read. And I was not there anymore. I w I had stopped reading because it’s such a high cognitive load to read, but I was still curious and I was still listening to podcasts. And so I came across, I think I was listening to a lot of Jimmy Dore and I think low-carbon D was out then, different podcasts.

And I heard something about the ketogenic diet and they talked about all the health benefits and they talked about. How was great for your brain. And I was like, oh, because I had been seeing a functional medicine person. So I had been eating really clean all those years still had a ton of inflammation in my body.

Cause you know so I was eating clean. I was eating whole foods already. So I was like, oh, this isn’t that big of a change for me. I’m just going to take out these particular foods and add some more of these. And after, listening to 50 podcasts, I got my gumption up. And I did it and.

But that is my fuel source. I was never supposed to run on carbs. My brain just completely blossomed. I still had some cognitive issues, but the brain energy I had was amazing. I had a ton of energy. Like I was always chronically fatigued and just barely making it. And three months after going keto, I joined a CrossFit gym.

You know what I mean? So I didn’t do great at it. Nobody does at first, but I still don’t do great at it, but I, but the point is I had the energy to like, I’m going to work out. Like I feel good and so my brain just continued to heal and continue to get better. And I started to do better and better work with my.

And you get a lot of clients and yeah anyway, so I was going to say, you get a lot of clients that are suffering. There’s a lot of people that are not getting better on meds, and we’re not allowed to talk about it. And there are a lot of people that really work hard in therapy and try to do the therapy work with their brain is just not functioning very well.

That takes a lot of energy to do really good therapy work and to provide very good therapy work. And so I feel like it really leveled me up as a therapist.

Carole Freeman: What it sounds like you didn’t even know that your brain was in a fog that once you experienced the clarity, you’re like, oh, this is the way things should be.

Nicole Laurent: Yeah, that’s so true. And until people actually experience it themselves, they can’t imagine that there’s much difference. And

in fact, most people think without carbs that you should have very low energy and you’re going to be lethargic and fuzzy brained. And yeah, we got news for you. It’s not that way.

Yeah, absolutely. So that’s what started me on it. And then, I hate seeing people suffer unnecessarily, especially if I know something that’s going to help. And I’d get clients that had diabetes and I’d like mention, yeah. This works for that. And anyways, I just would quietly encourage people to do it for a while.

And then I decided that I wanted, I had a client she’s still my client, but she’s, I started, she’s a, she was a younger. And I started to give her nutrition advice and she looked at me, she said, do you even have any training in that? And I was like, no, I guess I don’t. And then I went back to school and I got the training, which was great where I went to Maryland university of integrative health and got a post-graduate certificate in it, but, but yeah but then I was like, yeah, I can give this advice. This is within my realm of practice, and then I went to finally, I went to a training with Georgia II, Georgia aid has an amazing training. Anybody who’s a mental health professional, or a psychiatrist or an MD or a nurse practitioner or whatever you should absolutely take Georgia aids training.

Because she goes on about how to do it specifically for people with mental illness or neurological issues. She gives lots of information about medications and potentiation effects and all the stuff we need to consider. When we do this, we’ll do this for people who have mental illness.

Carole Freeman: Oh that’s, I’m so glad you mentioned that too, because medications and different mental health conditions require expertise and additional training in that.

So it’s great that Georgia is putting that out and very important that somebody, I screen all my clients that medications and certain metal, most medical diagnoses for mental health things. I’m like, let me refer you to somebody. That’s actually got the expertise in that too.

Yeah. All right. Valerie’s here so good to see you. Haven’t seen you in a while. Good. Good evening, ladies. I’ve been looking forward to this discussion. Excellent. Valerie, she does some questions. If you’ve got specific topics or questions that you’d like us to cover too so glad you’re here.

And so as you started to bring this to your clients, then you call them clients, right?

Nicole Laurent: People, my peoples.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. What did you know what was in store? Did you think it might help a little bit, or, share with us some kind of, some of the stories of things you’ve seen?

Nicole Laurent: Yeah I knew I suspected, that it was good for anxiety and depression and mental illness because, Chris Palmer has been all over the podcast talking about his experience, Georgia.

He has been all over. Talking about her. So I knew that there was people who had experienced with this, that found that people got better and felt much better. And so I didn’t have any hesitation. And my expectation was that if they were able to do it semi consistently that they were going to see benefits and that’s exactly what I see what I’ve seen.

I use it or, I don’t push it on everybody that comes in my office. I’m at, I’m a licensed mental health counselor in Washington state. So I get a little bit of everybody in while I have this particular niche that I’m, that I really enjoy working in. I see all kinds of people and some people just not having it.

No, thank you. I want my med and my therapy. You bringing this up as weird, I’m uncomfortable, and then I have people that are what there’s a thing I can do that might actually help me, please tell me more. I’ll do it. And they do it. It’s amazing. They’re like, okay. Much better at it in the beginning than I was cause they’re just highly motivated.

And so I get, I get people with anxiety just general run of the mill kind of anxiety, and some sadness and depression and feeling overwhelmed in their life all the way to bipolar disorder. I have people using it too. I have some people with bipolar disorder on medication that stay on medication often at a lower dose.

And then I have people who are who are bipolar that only use the ketogenic diet to regulate their symptoms and to further disease. So yeah, I don’t work with anybody with schizophrenia and I don’t get that in private practice or anything, but it really works well for so many. Illnesses. When I say anxiety disorders, I’m talking about OCD, panic disorder PTSD.

Oh, my cats back there. Sorry.

Carole Freeman: I could see cat was contemplating. I’m going to jump on the top of that chair here goes.

Nicole Laurent: Yeah. I just want you to fall on me. Sometimes it happens during sessions, a little stressful. So yeah, so panic disorder, PTSD. I’ve really seen, I bought that when I was a little bit surprised by, but it makes perfect sense.

The biochemists or what I would think was the biochemistry underlying those improvements. But yeah, PTSD is good. Social anxiety disorder. I’ve seen it work really well with and of course depression. So yeah it’s fun. It’s, I’ve been doing this for 15 years.

And I think I’ve been doing ketogenic diets specifically, probably four years, three, maybe five years at the most, I didn’t really mark the time or whatever. Oh, excuse me, kidney. But that, it really, this is what the medical doctors say, I’ve been treating diabetes for, 10 years or 20 years and was feeling burned out.

And then I whip this out and people are getting better and it feels good to be a practitioner again. And so that’s what I’m experiencing.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Let’s talk about that. The myth of well diet in your brain, those are separate things. Like

Nicole Laurent: even we need five podcasts for that really, but I’ll do my best.

Yeah.

Carole Freeman: And even in my training, so I have a very special degree that is, a double master’s, it’s a nutrition and psychology degree bastard. Th the school is amazing and it’s, as far as I know, it’s the one and only program that does this, and, the students all get it. Like everyone was going through that, understand that what you, what goes on in your brain influences how you eat and what you eat, influences your whole body and your brain is part of your body.

And, yeah, but it was still interesting though, is even in that program, we had two separate advisors. We have the dietician side of it, and then we have the psychology side of it, and they really didn’t because of their training. They didn’t really see that they were really interrelated. So let’s talk about that as isn’t the brain like detached from our head, how does our food influence how our brain works?

Nicole Laurent: Oh my gosh. It’s everything like, I can’t even begin. So first of all we, I’ll start with my blog because the blog was really my attempt. So I have a little blog it’s called mental health, keto.com. And the reason I started it was that I wanted to be able to intelligently explain to clients why the keto diet might help this or that disorder.

And I first I found I can’t remember where I found it, but I, it had identified what ketones do. What are the, what do ketones do at least in animal studies and some human, some human studies and those underlying mechanisms, what do we know that ketones do? And what do we know that stable blood sugars do?

And so then what I would do, so in, in those were the underlying factors to. Most mental illnesses. I was like, oh, keto, ketones help those. Oh, interesting. So let’s see exactly what those factors are and these different disease processes or illnesses. And so it was brain hypometabolism, so fuel.

So brains need lots of fuel. And ketones, as we know, are beautiful fuels for the brain brains, love them, neurons love them. And they, they do great things. And brain hypometabolism oxidative stress, there tends to be levels high levels of oxidative stress and ketones help.

Those neuroinflammation is also another factor that we see in different mental illnesses. And of course, neurotransmitter imbalances and ketogenic diets, ketones ketones, specifically they’d hydroxybutyrate in particular. Have effects on those four factors. And then I would look up, I’d be like, okay, I want to know what those four, if those four factors I have a, are an influence in PTSD, for example.

So I would look at the literature and I would do a look of the literature and sure enough, neuro-transmitter imbalances areas of brain hypometabolism. It’s often different parts of the brain. And oxidative stress would come up consistently. Inflammation would come up consistently and then I would write a blog post that kind of would talk about, okay, so this, these disease processes, these particular underlying disease processes are an influence or a factor in this disease.

And so here’s what, how ketones might affect those. And here’s what we know. And so that’s one way right there. And the piece that I think that I’m most excited about other than the. And the way that they heal brains, and balance neuro-transmitters is also the micronutrient piece.

So a well-formulated ketogenic diet is a very micronutrient, rich diet, for sure. I don’t know what they’re talking about with all those nutrient deficiencies, but any diet.

Carole Freeman: Yeah that’s so surprising. I’m glad you said that too, because the original ketogenic diets for little kids in the 1920s was, a cup of corn oil, soybean oil, and this, they didn’t know what they were doing and now you can just eat real whole foods.

You’re right. It’s actually, it can be so much more nutrient dense than the standard

Nicole Laurent: American diet and micronutrient sparing. So a key well-formulated ketogenic diets spares, magnesium. You don’t burn through it trying to turn glucose into usable fuel. It’s the, I am in sparing, right? I am in vitamin B, one sparing.

So there’s that piece and what a lot of people don’t understand is those micro eat, like in order to and amino acids, right? Like you need tryptofan to make serotonin and you need serotonin to make. Melatonin. And if you don’t have enough IRN and B6 and zinc, I don’t care how much serotonin re-uptake inhibitor use you are going to down.

You’re not making enough serotonin even hanging out into, out in the synapse to do good work, right? Like it should always start with the nutrition. We should never be trying to change these neurotransmitter balances without making sure that the basic precursors are there in order to make the things that the brain needs.

And so yeah, nutrition is intimately connected to your mental health in way in, in ways we know in ways we haven’t discovered.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Oh, wow. I, and I bet there are a lot of people listening, watching to this right now that are going to be really surprised to know that there is a lot of research on ketones and how it’s beneficial in the body and the brain.

So all the things you’re mentioning that we know, Hey, there is research on this. This is not some fad thing. Nicole, would you agree that, okay, so some people might be listening and hearing oh, this ketosis magic diet, it’s going to do all these things, or would you agree that no, it’s actually just returning us to a diet.

That’s more than aligned with the way we should be eating. And instead of the 50 years of high carbohydrate processed refined sugars and oils and low protein, low nutrient dense foods,

Nicole Laurent: Yeah. Yeah. I think that, sorry, I’m trying to get out of this Sunbeam. I dunno. I love the sun is out, but it’s messing with my cameras, so I can’t see.

So I think that I think that when you have a body that doesn’t want a lot of blood sugar floating around, like it has it stores, it a little bit in the liver, teeny bit in the kidney, a little bit in the muscles, right? In case you get attacked by a lion and you need to run really fast.

But other than that, it wants, it doesn’t want more than a teaspoon worth of glucose in your bloodstream at any time. And it really works very hard in a desperate way to get any extra out of your bloodstream. I think that might be a no brainer that maybe. Once in a while was okay. Like fruit season, I don’t know, but not today’s fruits.

That’s a very different fruit, I little bit is fine and your body can handle it. But when you’re, when your body is screaming, when your pancreas is screaming and your insulin is high and it’s desperate, just shove it out of your bloodstream. I don’t know. Maybe that’s a clue that was not meant to be our primary.

Carole Freeman: So logical, I love listening to you explain these things because it’s stuff that I know. And then I’m like, oh, I never thought about that way. So this is already fun for me, Nicole. I hope everyone else is enjoying it, but I’m having a great time. Oh yeah. Okay. Lots of research and it just makes logical sense that this is just feeding our brain, the things that it needs.

It’s a full of micronutrients and it’s micronutrient sparing. That’s really cool that you talked about that. Cause I, I never heard that about the magnesium. I thought about it with the thiamine, right? Cause Diamond’s primary goal is in, turning carbohydrates into fuel. So funny, I’m learning so much.

This is great. I love it. Your, the program sounds amazing that Georgia has put together and and yeah w where should we go next? Valerie? What questions do you have? Anyone else watching? What questions do you have for Nicole? Oh, I also want to ask you that about, it just seems like there is a epidemic of anxiety, right?

Like it wasn’t something that was such a common thing, when I was in school or in my twenties and now it just seems like everyone has anxiety and they can’t go do all of these things. So do you want to speak to,

Nicole Laurent: yeah. So let’s talk about that a little bit. So yeah, one is everybody’s super magnesium.

Unless you’re supplementing your magnesium deficient and that, that causes a lot of imbalances and neurotransmitters, but even more so there, there’s it depends on the diet really, again, we’re back to how the diet affects mental health. So if you are eating a height, I always say high sugar, highly processed carbohydrate.

If you’re eating more and it doesn’t even have to be that it can just be more carbs than your current level of incident insulin resistance can handle. Like for some people that’s one cookie, or a bag of figs, even though it’s a whole food, like everybody’s got a different level of insulin resistance going on.

And this is important sometimes are often I will have someone get their basic blood work done and their insulin resistance score is great. It’s five or four, but they’re bipolar. And I put them on a ketogenic diet and they still have. And so just because your fasting insulin is low, don’t think that a ketogenic diet won’t help your mental illness or your anxiety or your depression.

Eh, there’s still metabolic issues that are potentially going on in the brain that are contributing to a mental illness that is not measured in a fasting insulin score. So just, FYI, because when I first started, I was like, oh their fasting insulin is low. They’re very insulin sensitive.

Maybe this won’t work, but Nope, sure enough. So it’s so why is everybody so anxious? Okay. So there’s a lot of different reasons. Now my brain is flooded with 12 different, 12 different things that it can be. But the one that the one that I find when I explain to clients makes the most sense is the one where.

They have neuroinflammation. So people are starting to understand what neuroinflammation is. They understand that it contributes to brain fog. They understand that it contributes to not feeling good, but they don’t quite understand why that would make them anxious. So let’s talk about that. So when you have neuroinflammation, it changes the environment in which your body is trying to make your brain is trying to make neuro-transmitters okay.

And when there is a lot of inflammation going on, your body goes to make something called glutamate. Okay. And unique. Glutamate, glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter, and everybody needs it, but you only need a certain amount and what your brain is supposed to do when you don’t have a bunch of inflammation throwing this off is it will make glutamate.

And then it will make a whole bunch of this beautiful neuro-transmitter called gal. And Gabby is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. It’s the chill one. It’s the one where you’re like sitting there and you feel like you got all this, you’re not overwhelmed. That’s Gabba. So when you have a lot of neuroinflammation and that could be because you’ve got like a, you’re not taking good care of yourself.

You’re not sleeping. You’re not, you’re eating high sugar, food, you’re going to Starbucks getting the caffeine and the, all the goods, all the sugar, the hit that causes neuroinflammation. Like I said, your body does not want that glucose at that level. It is a stressor in the brain to have that much sugar.

Okay. It causes early neurodegenerate. And it causes inflammation. It’s inflammatory. So you sitting there with this high blood sugar, your brain’s just stewing in it, trying to get rid of it, trying to use it. And this inflammatory process makes us so that you just make glutamate and you don’t just make, you don’t make any Gabba.

You don’t make hardly any Gabba. You don’t have any of the feel-good one. You don’t have any of the chill. I’m not overwhelmed. I’ve got this. I’m on top of the world. One, you don’t get it. You just get glutamate, you get the excitatory one. And I remember Georgia talking about this in one of her talks.

She’s I worked at this college and these college students would come in and they she said it was like the freak out moment, right? That is high glutamate. That is you. Your neuro-transmitters are imbalanced. That is not how you’re normally supposed to feel. And so there’s that, and it doesn’t just it keeps making glutamate, glutamate, it’s stressed out your brain.

Doesn’t want to have all that sugar around it, and it continues to make excitatory. You can get up to a hundred times more glutamate than you’re supposed to, and at those levels it is neurotoxic.

Carole Freeman: And so

Nicole Laurent: maybe is that maybe, yeah. That’s panic attack. That’s, that’s, that contributes to that, for sure.

For sure. These excitatory these excitatory neurotransmitters that are out of balance. Again, you’re supposed to have some, but your brain and your body knows how to balance them and how to balance them with all the other neurotransmitter systems. And yeah that’s a big. That’s why people are anxious.

And then, I, I have clients, they’ll be like I have a very stressful life. I have a lot going on. I’m very overwhelmed. I have I have maybe I’m going through a divorce or, all these other things, or I have these mean people at work, whatever.

And I totally get that, but I want to know, I want to know what’s getting in the way of your resiliency. Why are you not very resilient? Why is this feel like, because it is, there’s lots of people have lots of stressors in their life and lots of people are very anxious and overwhelmed and stressed out about it, but there’s also a lot of people who are resilient to it.

And I think it’s nutrition. I think it’s nutrition that is missing that is, is making people have daily stressors, just daily, normal stress. That they feel like they can’t handle

Carole Freeman: anxiety rates and the standard American diet rates follow a similar path, right? Yeah. Yeah. There’s one of my kiddies there too, so

And so what is it like when you broached that subject with somebody, like what you said already, some examples, like sometimes people are, Nope. I don’t want to talk about that while you were talking to me about my nutrition. Other people are very excited about, oh my gosh, there’s more I can do.

W, how do you decide who’s a good candidate to bring that up with? Do you bring it up with everyone? How does, what’s your decision?

Nicole Laurent: I I don’t usually bring it up. Sometimes I do just bring it up right away where I’ll be like, yeah, I think this could really help you. Other times it’s stuff like we put our foot in the door, because again, this information is all very new to a lot of people.

It’s, someone has anxiety and Hey, maybe you should supplement some signs that magnesium is really, good for anxiety. And then we talk about why their diet might be depleting them even further of magnesium. That’s hard to get in the diet. And and then that starts a conversation or, yeah, your anxiety is really high or your depression is flared up.

Tell me what you ate the last three days. And then that kind of will start a conversation about.

Keto for Mental Health

Keto for Mental Health. Carole interviews Nicole Laurent, licensed mental health counselor about keto for a healthy body and mind.

Carole Freeman: You mentioned the excitability too. And I’m curious then, do you know him, how much much about caffeine and specifically these energy drinks that are really popular right now? One of my clients this morning was talking about, oh, my son wanted this energy drink and it didn’t have any carbs in it.

Didn’t have any 0, 0, 0 calories. So it must be okay. And we talked a lot about the, how much caffeine is in there and how addictive that can be. How does, like, how does excessive and also I pointed out the fact that those energy drinks have the equivalent of four shots of espresso.

And how she wouldn’t think it was okay to stop at Starbucks and get her son a quad, latte. But the energy drinks, how that thought it was. Okay. So does excessive caffeine intake, does that influence. Nutrient deficiencies, how does that play into, does it play into it?

Nicole Laurent: I know that even someone who is not trained in ketogenic diets has that’s a therapist hopefully knows to ask their anxious client about their coffee, drinking habits. Sometimes we literally just say, don’t do that. And then their anxiety goes down to, less, less or, so there’s that obvious piece.

And I, I don’t, I know that we talked about for caffeine, I don’t know all the biochemistry around caffeine to that degree. I do know that when we use stimulants for ADHD and add those stimulants are famous in the literature for being nutrient dense. So I think anytime you take a pathway and you just try to speed it up.

So somehow I think that there’s an issue potentially with that. And I would be way more interested in knowing why your client’s young person is tired to begin with.

Carole Freeman: And I don’t think it was fatigue is just that those are really popular. They’re marketed towards, teens and twenties, and this was something that they get a high off of it when you consume, when you’re not used to that level of caffeine and you consume that, it’s like super exciting, right?

And so my son is 26 and he’s gone through that where we’ll have a lot of those. That’s very exciting. And then he’ll crash and have chronic headaches, really bad headaches. And so we, we discussed that as well as that may be more of a concern. Th, introducing 300 milligrams of caffeine in a teen is a drug level dose of that.

It is a drug, but it’s a addictive level dose of that type of drug.

Nicole Laurent: So there’s a dopamine chase that kind of happens with that.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. So we talked a w once I told her the equivalent of how many shots of Starbucks that was, she was like, oh, I would never let him have that. Yeah.

So Valerie’s commenting that she’s got both anxiety and migraines and the magnesium part was really interesting to her. And she’s wondering about magnesium supplementation to augment a keto diet. Do you find that. People do well if they, supplement with magnesium or is keto on its own since it’s so sparing for magnesium.

Nicole Laurent: Oh no. I even all my clients that I put on keto always, I tell them to take magnesium. And the thing about migraines. Oh, Angela, her name’s Angela stamps, Stanton, S T a N T O N. I hope I’m doing that. She is a migraine specialist that teaches some of the neurological CMIOs at nutrition network. And she did a specific one about migraines.

So you might want to check out her work, but yes. So magnesium for people who get migraines, magnesium is super impatient. And you want to, don’t be stingy with it. We say 200 to 400 supplement, but I, for people who are trying to heal their brain, I say 600 to 800 milligrams of magnesium.

If you get the poops back off a pill, no big deal, but the other thing that if you have migraines that you have to know that I think would be really helpful is you earn through minerals like a race car, you need salt, you need a lot of salt. You might need up to 13 grams of salt a day. You might need to take an eighth of a teaspoon of salt every two hours and chase it down with some water.

You need electrolytes at a much higher rate than anybody else. And I wish I had known that when I had my migraines cause probably would have helped me a great deal. But but yeah, so magnesium is super important and. Potassium is also important, but I’m not familiar with her exact protocol about how much potassium to add in and under what conditions.

But salt will often salt will often keep a migraine from happening if you get it in there fast enough. So definitely check her workout.

Carole Freeman: That might be you. So I do a ton of salt work with my clients and we’re, titrating that up for a lot of people too. And that may be a big part of why almost everyone that I’ve ever worked with that had a history of migraines when they’re consistent with their keto diet, their migraines go in remission, they completely stopped.

Haven’t needed the mag magnesium supplementation for most of them. And, but we do tons and tons of salt for everybody. So

Nicole Laurent: yeah,

Carole Freeman: absolutely a big part that’s missing. So yeah. All right. And okay. And great question. Thanks Valerie, for participating and being here today. And if anyone else watching has any questions for Nicole, please go ahead and put them in the chat, the word where I’m I’m speaking for her, but I’m sure she’ll be happy to answer questions here.

And oh, you know what, and I’m going to add this in which I skipped over is that this show is meant for educational and entertainment purpose only. And this is not medical advice. It’s not tended to diagnose, prevent, treat, or cure any condition. So a discussion we’re having today is for educational purposes only.

So please seek out care of your own personal healthcare professional. If you have any your own diagnoses and Nicole, do you, are you able to work remotely or are you only with people that live in the state of Washington or I don’t know what your license

Nicole Laurent: is, but, so I do consultation work outside of Washington.

And then in Washington I work as a licensed mental health counselor. So yeah, either way. And and I’m actually starting to, this is helping a lot of people and so I’m actually. Starting to maybe move away from so much individual work. And cause as a lot of your first few conversations about someone moving into keto is you’re saying the same thing over and over again, right?

Yeah. So I’m looking to streamline that a little bit. So I’m currently working specifically on program research and I’m looking for women specifically because they are quite underrepresented in when they go for help with, in the medical system. I’m looking for women who have brains.

And symptoms of brain fog better recurrent or chronic in a way that it either impairs their life or they’re worried it’s going to impair their life. Or they’re like, oh, wait a minute. I used to be way smarter. What’s happening here. Regardless of reason. So regardless of why you think you have your brain fog, whether it’s ADHD or an auto-immune condition or a head injury, or early dementia or whatever I’m wanting to talk to women too, to figure out what their biggest frustrations are about getting treatment, because I want to offer something that uses nutritional and functional psychiatry alongside social supports to make those changes eventually.

Carole Freeman: And we’ll put your contact info up at the end, as well as in the show notes. If anybody’s interested in talking with Nicole and inner you, so you’re just doing some interviews with.

Nicole Laurent: Yeah, like 30 minutes, I’d hop on a zoom or a phone call. And just kinda hearing, because I have my, I know from working with my clients, what I think, but anytime you are a practitioner, you only get a small subset of society, no matter how hard you try to, and so I want hear what some of that is. And I’ve heard some stuff I’ve heard before. I can’t make dietary changes because the people in my household aren’t supportive or I can’t make dietary changes because I don’t know how to cook two dinners. I can’t make dietary changes because they don’t say this, but this is it.

My part of my identity is being a rebel and getting, and that’s how I rebel is I, eat all the things or whatever. And so we got to do some therapy around that kind of thing. There’s other ways to rebel, I promise that feel just as self validating, that don’t harm your health or your.

So there’s all these different kind of factors. And I just want to do a good job of kind of making sure I’m thinking about them all and considering them all when I wrap them in my program.

Carole Freeman: Oh, wow. And that’s really cool. So you’re saying instead of a dietary rebel, why don’t you get some more tattoos and piercings,

Nicole Laurent: maybe I’d rather, yeah.

I’d rather have your brain functioning and got to enjoy the rest of your life than to look like the cool lady who made the suites at the potluck. Or I can’t make dietary changes because I go to these potlucks and all these school events, and there was nothing but pure sugar. And if someone bakes something, I feel bad saying no.

Even though I know that in order to keep my cognitive function and in order to feel good and have good energy, I need to not eat that. And so what is going on that you’re sacrificing your own health for someone else’s interpretation of what it means that you say, no, thank you.

Carole Freeman: Your points there.

Spurred another question from Valerie. She says, what advice do you give your clients? Then I use some of those excuses or reasons you listed for not making changes.

Nicole Laurent: Yeah, so I use some different cognitive behavioral techniques that kind of help help them either clarify their why, which is often really important.

And also they become very active in, so it’s actually called externalization of resistance. It’s a cognitive behavioral therapy technique. I have found by the way, all my mental health stuff, super helpful in helping people transition and stick to things. So externalization of resistance is where.

The clients as well, I don’t want to do this or I need to say, thank you. I really need to try that. And then I will play devil’s advocate and I’ll say out loud Mary, you know that Judy made those brownies and she probably made them for you and you really need to eat them.

And then the client has to argue that down. No, she actually made them for everybody. And I really doubt that she’s made them just for me and well, Mary, you know that she’s going to hate you if you don’t eat that brownie. She’s no, Mary likes me, so like they they there’s different techniques that we use.

That’s one of many

Carole Freeman: really great because the normal thing people want to do. Would be then as a coach, or maybe somebody who’s not as skilled as you in therapy would start to argue with them about why they could write and so much more effective is to get the client, to argue for themselves about the reasons why, and it makes it a little easier to do that when you’re pointing out the obvious, black and white thinking that we do where we think, oh no, they’re going to hate me forever.

And she made these for me and I have to do all those things. So that’s really

great.

Nicole Laurent: Yeah. And also, there is that therapy component of what is going on for you that you feel like you need to sacrifice your health for approval. What is going on for you that you just can’t take up space to say, this is what I need, and I’m going to put that first.

It’s all connected. And that’s why I really like combining it and not just because I think that. I know standard of care is meds and everybody who wants meds, please go get meds. And if meds have helped you, I am so grateful that beds have helped you meds have saved your life. I am so grateful. But in my experience with patients and I’m not a psychiatrist, so I’m not, I’m probably not working with the population whose lives were saved by meds, absolutely. I’m I’m a private practice, pretty high functioning set of people usually to some, with some exceptions here and there. But I have found the ketogenic diet to be more effective than medications. And before I started my blog, I didn’t know why I couldn’t like figure out, like, why would that be?

But then what I’ve learned is that ketogenic diets, because the ketones are signaling molecules and because they have effects in multiple systems, not just neurotransmitter systems, but the inflammation system, like they’re turning off inflammatory pathways on the genetic level as the gene is expressing, right?

And they upregulate glutathione production, like literally adding a well-formulated ketogenic diet to that, where you have all the precursors to make more glutathione that reduces oxidative stress. And they are providing an alternative fuel for a brain that is starving and into distress. That is a multi-level intervention.

That is a multilevel psychiatric intervention. And I am sorry, but I challenge big pharma to create a pill. That’s going to do all of those things. And so in my personal experience, I see it as much more effective than medications. And when I pair it with psychotherapy, I it’s so much easier for people to do their work.

Their brain is working better. They feel better. And when I do challenging cognitive behavioral things, or dialectical behavior challenges or whatever they respond, they just, they flourish. And that’s what I see.

Carole Freeman: As Robb Wolf says, like people have to eat, and so it’s actually one of the least expensive interventions is just to change the food that they’re eating anyways.

Yeah. Yeah. I love your. The therapy techniques of the disconnect when people think they can’t thrive in these situations, the social situations ended up being some of the most challenging. So what would you say about the disconnect? I have a lot of moms that, and grandmothers that they believe that I’m on this special diet, but I don’t want to make my, my kids, my teens, my grandkids, like I want them to have all these special foods.

So I have to have those in the house for them. What kind of techniques or discussions do you have with clients that kind of have that kind of reasoning that disconnect that if it’s poison for them, that it would be poisoned for younger people too?

Nicole Laurent: Yeah. You have to decide if you want to make it a power struggle in your home.

It depends on the ages of your children, for sure. And there’s always the piece where, I have I have adult children who eat the way they want to eat and they don’t restrict carbohydrates or sugar. And I sometimes worry about them for sure. But then I remind myself that if they become chronically ill, they know how to change it.

I’ve modeled it for them. They know they can come to me, they know they can, they know they can heal. And so if, and when they’re ready to make those changes to heal, their body they’ll do that, but they are on their own journey. They came here with their own agenda and their own, their own journey.

And so I have to honor that journey and I’m not willing to turn that into a power struggle or to have them feel judged around that. Now there’s plenty of moms with young children who do have some control over that. I didn’t know about this when my, I had my babies, we were eating fruit roll-ups and juice and I didn’t know did the best I could.

I have taken them through, McDonald’s no clue, all the time. But for some moms who are on the up and know about this and I think it’s a fine time to do great habits. Sometimes I have had sessions where the husband or the wife came to a session and we talked about what was at stake because a lot of times they just don’t understand what’s at stake.

I get, you love your wife and you need your wife to stop the mild cognitive impairment. That’s that is showed up. Now that’s going to turn into dementia, very likely. So if you want to keep your wife and have her be present for you in the marriage, we got to that’s what’s at stake. I don’t think you knew that.

So let me explain why this diet needs to happen. And often having that kind of converse or even debilitating anxiety or debilitating depression or agoraphobia, and they can’t leave the house or they have OCD. Like I know that you want to help your husband. Like I know that you love them and that you are committed.

Let me explain to you why this could be the most important intervention of their life and why, and here’s how you can support you want Twinkies, keep them in your. Eden before you come in the house, don’t bring them in the house. And a lot of more yeah, that’ll work. I’ll just put my junk food at work, so I just really, I think when people are encounter unsupportive environments, they just, they, the people in the family don’t understand what’s at stake. And once you really frame it for them in that way, some of them were like, yeah, I’ll just eat keto with them when I’m home. And yeah. So I think that people don’t necessarily know. And also it depends on the level of carbohydrate addiction. If I have someone who has a really bad carb processed carbohydrate addiction we’ll talk about that. Like it’s an addiction and you wouldn’t keep bourbon in the house for you.

Drinking husband, if you’re trying to finish, stop drinking. Okay. What can you do? So we do it from that, from the trigger standpoint and it just depends what’s going on. Not everybody is at that level of addiction. And they can have some stuff in the house and feel, okay.

Carole Freeman: So true. I found some of my moms want to stay in denial that they’re using it as an excuse. I have to keep those things in the house and then they keep struggling with eating them. And then it turns out when they actually had the discussion with the kids, the teens, the husband, they’re like, oh yeah, no problem.

We don’t need that in the house. And you’re identifying why is that the reason you want to have those there? Yeah.

Nicole Laurent: Yeah. And the other thing that again, it all comes back to the psychology and the taking up space and the healthy boundaries, like I had I had a parent who was wanting to change the diet in the household, around, across the board.

And when we go to the store, they’re gonna want the cocoa puffs or whatever. And I’m like, who’s money is being spent at the store, is that their money, like you are not money. You are the manager and stewardess of that money. You determine what you are going to spend your money on.

You’re the adult of the household. And when that child grows up and becomes an adult, they can certainly buy their own food, or choose what they’re going to, what they’re going to spend their money on. But as the adult, you absolutely have the right to decide what you will buy and not buy. And you have the wisdom to decide what is best to bring him into the house and what isn’t.

And so again, it comes back to healthy boundaries. Healthy sense of self, the ability to take up space, the ability to handle someone being displeased with you for a little while, while they are adjusting. And the other thing is if a mom is going to make that change in the house, those kids are still going to get plenty of processed carbohydrates at school, at sports, at their friend’s house, all that.

It’s not like the child’s going to be denied of all the things, certainly. So it’s really, it’s not a big deal for parents to behave in their integrity and just decide what they’re going to spend their money on and their grocery budget and what that looks like. And hopefully it’s nutrient dense

Carole Freeman: foods.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. And I love the phrase you said, that are not afraid, but a question you ask about, what’s going on for you that you’re willing to sacrifice your health for approval of others. And that. Not only goes on with adults, but it happens with children, because a lot of moms are afraid that my, my child’s going to be really unhappy with me. They’re going to hate me if I don’t buy the cocoa puffs forum. So therefore I’m willing to sacrifice. I’m willing to make this really hard for myself, a food that I can’t resist. So that’s a great question that I’m going to borrow from you and the other one too, about the taking up space.

So advocating for yourself, we mean by that, right? Like when you say what’s going on that you’re afraid to take up space. So talk about that. What do you see is some of the things that make people afraid to advocate for themselves?

Nicole Laurent: Yeah. Or, yeah, and that, think about turning it into a psychology show.

Sorry. But think about where we first learned that, in order to keep a parent happy, we don’t take up space. We don’t ask for things we don’t. Or punishment for taking up too much space. I want this, I want you shouldn’t want that. You, whatever you think you want is incorrect.

However, you think, oh, your feeling is incorrect. You shouldn’t feel that way. So that invalidation piece. So all of this, all of this goes back to that and they just work beautifully together. The lifestyle changes with the psychological component are really powerful.

Work.

Carole Freeman: Love it. Valerie says a comprehensive and helpful answer. Thank you, Nicole. Anything else? We could probably talk for seven hours. We could do a juror Rogan style podcast and go on and on. But yeah. Anything else that you were hoping I would ask about or anything you’d like to share or anything else you want to touch on before we wrap this up?

At least for this episode, I’d love to have you back

Nicole Laurent: again. I want to T so when you talk about keto genic diets, as a treatment for mental illness, you unavoidably, get people who have mental illness who are already on medications, psychiatric medications, or other medications, but I’m speaking mostly about the psychiatric ones.

We all know about the diabetic and the blood pressure medications, and that those need to be carefully monitored by a prescriber and all that. But that’s, I’m not a medical doctor, but, and I’m also not a prescriber in any way, shape or form. But I do want people who are thinking about doing a ketogenic diet to treat their mental illness and are, who are on medications to make sure that they understand something called potentiation effects and potentiation effects are really important because what happens on a ketogenic diet is your brain starts to heal and it starts to work.

And what that means is that whatever your current dosage is of some medications will suddenly be too high and you will start to get weird side effects and you will think, oh my God, it’s this ketogenic diet it’s messing with my brain. But really what is most likely is either your electrolytes are not on, you feel poopy, but more Mo but quite likely as you are developing potentiation effects, which means that you need to go to your prescriber and evaluate your prescriptions with them and possibly discuss titrating down.

Once you titrate down, usually that is better in a couple of days, you’ll be like, oh, that kind of extra anxiety that I had, or that whatever is better. Or w and so if you are going to do this with your, a ketogenic diet for mental illness, before you go in to see your psychiatrist or your prescriber, I want you to Google the side effects of your medications.

I want you to stick them on the fridge. I want you to check for them every day. And usually, within three to six weeks is when we start to see potentiation effects. If they’re maybe going to happen, they might not, but it’s just something I want on people’s radar. I don’t want you doing a ketogenic diet for mental health with if you’re on prescriptions, without the help of a prescriber.

Also there are S sometimes there becomes energy deficits in the brain for whatever reason, there’s tricks and trays, there’s MCT oil, there’s eating extra butter. There’s, we got to keep those ketones nice and high or you can get energy deficits in the brain and you can get an exacerbation of symptoms.

And for some people that just means their anxiety is a little high for other people. And so if you are already on medications and you want to try a ketogenic diet for mental health, you must have a prescriber who is going to work with you and take good care of you because you deserve good medical treatment.

And that is a piece of it. And if you don’t have a prescriber that’s willing to do that, you need to find a low carbon formed prescriber. There’s lots of different provider directories, but have that in place before you go, willy-nilly cutting your carbohydrates all the way down.

Carole Freeman: Love it. So important.

Glad you sh you shared that. So get the right support in place before you endeavor to do this. So well, Nicole, thank you so much for being here. I’ve learned so much. I hope everyone is enjoying this and learned as much as well. And let’s see. So today we’ve been talking with Nicole Laurent, licensed mental health counselor who specializes in.

Ketogenic wait, I got to get the right phrase and therapeutic carbohydrate restriction for mental health. No,

I got to sound fancy

and okay. So how can people get ahold of you? They’d like more information if they’d like to participate in the interviews that you’re doing now, again, that’s women that are experiencing some kind of brain fog.

That’s interfering with the quality of your life. Nicole would love to chat with you. So how can they reach out for that?

Nicole Laurent: So the easiest way to contact me is the contact form at MentalHealthKeto.com. That’s easiest. And then if you want to participate in my program research, I would be so grateful.

I’m trying to get 50 calls. I have 21, the sooner I get those 50 calls done, the sooner I can create something to help people. And yeah, and I’ll send you my Calendly.

Carole Freeman: Wonderful. Thank you again for being here. Thank you everyone for watching the show. And we’ve got another episode coming up next week.

And so if you’re struggling with keto, we’re here to help. If you want help with mental health keto, please visit mental health keto.com. That’s perfect. Naming there. If you’re a lady who’s struggling on keto to get the results that you want and weight loss is your primary goal with that, I’m here to help as well.

So KetoCarole.com and support the show. We’d love to see you leave a review on your podcast platform. If you’re listening on any podcast platform right now, or if you’re on YouTube or Facebook, go ahead and leave a comment. If you’re listening to this in the future and remember help us grow the show and we’ll help you shrink and a different kind of shrink over there and in different kind of shrink here.

Thank you everyone for watching. We’ll see you next time. Bye.

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Keto Leads to Dietitian’s Dilemma | KCL41

Keto Leads to Dietitian’s Dilemma

 What would you do if your health was restored by doing the opposite of everything you were taught?

After years on a high carbohydrate diet, intense running sessions, struggling with an eating disorder, and feeling the throes of anxiety & depression, Registered Dietitian Michelle Hurn knew she needed to make a change. Does the “One size fits all” food pyramid work for everyone? Are there other options, such as a low carbohydrate or ketogenic diet that may mitigate our risk for metabolic illness and restore us to health? Could this way of eating reverse diabetes, alleviate depression, pave the way to heal eating disorders, allow us to age gracefully, and prevent heart disease? Why as a nation is our health failing, and why aren’t the nutrition guidelines updating with the science?

Listen on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music 

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Transcript:

Carole Freeman: [00:00:00] Hey, we’re live everyone. Are you trying to follow keto, but your doctor, nurse and nutritionist told you that it’s unhealthy dangerous or unsustainable.

Are you a healthcare provider that’s maybe said or thought any of those things I just said about your patients or clients, would you like to hear the story of how one dietitian buck the current and even getting in a little bit of trouble along the way we started doing the opposite of what she’d been doing.

Because it was so effective. Hey, this episode is for you. Stick around. I have the amazing guest of Michelle Hurn you all. But first off I got to do our little medical disclaimer. Welcome. Welcome over one to keto chat live. I’m your host Carole Freeman. And. I have a master’s degree in nutrition and clinical health psychology.

I’m a board certified keto nutrition specialist and also a certified clinical hypnotherapist. I specialize in helping women 40 plus follow a keto diet for sustainable health. And as our lawyers like me to say, this show is meant for educational [00:01:00] entertainment purposes only. It is not meant to be medical advice nor intended to diagnose, prevent, treat, or cure any condition whatsoever.

If you have questions or concerns about your specific medical conditions, please seek out a qualified personal health care professional. And everyone helped me and join me in welcoming our special guest today. Michelle Hurn registered dietitian and author of the dietitian’s dilemma. Let us know you’re here.

Tell us your joint, where you’re joining from as we welcome Michelle.

Michelle Hurn: Thank you. Thank you, for the. introduction. That was a really awesome introduction. I like your displaying references.

Carole Freeman: I’m gonna read your little bio too, that you said, let’s give it a little more background about who is Michelle.

I’m so glad you were here. I heard about y’all just give a shout out to Siobhan Huggins is how I heard about you. Cause she posted about your book that you wrote and how helpful it was to her. And so I reached out and I was like, oh my gosh, I got to meet this Michelle person. And it’s just been great.

Michelle is a registered and licensed dietitian with 11 years of experience as a clinical acute care dietitian. [00:02:00] Lead dietitian in psychiatric care and outpatient dietitian while practicing inpatient and outpatient care. And the in the hospital setting, Michelle discovered a discerning connection between the high carbohydrate, low fat sugar in moderation, nutrition guidelines.

She was required to teach and the rapidly declining health of her. Michelle is an endurance athlete and she has competed in 12 marathons. Congratulations. In 2019, Michelle decided to follow a low carb, high, fat, high animal protein diet to see if it would alleviate severe muscle pain.

Michelle Hurn Keto Leads to Dietitian's Dilemma

Keto Leads to Dietitian’s Dilemma with Michelle Hurn

Michelle Hurn: I started having severe muscle aches and pains and I ended up adopting a low carbohydrate, high, fat animal based diet just with the goal.

I thought maybe all this extra protein could actually help my muscles. And what I found was my anxiety, I had suffered from life altering anxiety, crippling anxiety from the time I was a teenager. Improved significantly. Within weeks, that was one of the biggest changes.

And of course, my muscles healed, I felt a zillion times better. So yeah, I’m super grateful, I’m struggling being able to run it all to know I can be an ultra marathons [00:03:00] and ultra marathon is any distance over the traditional marathon distance of 26.2 miles. So yeah, I’m just going to hang out and wait for her.

My goal was to talk a little bit about my journey. What is it like to be an acute care dietitian? What does it currently and what was it like for me when I first got my health back, because, you get really excited. I’d be like, oh my gosh, I’m going to be able to help so much more people with this information.

But unfortunately, in the acute care setting, you’re just not allowed to teach a low-carb high-fat diet. So we’ll see if Carole, if not, they will just say the Michelle show. And I’ll just say, I’ll just talk about and share my stories. So we’ll give it a few minutes. Thank you guys. If you’re watching this live, thank you for your. I started to lose my health in 2019.

And I ended up adopting a low carbohydrate high-fat animal-based diet, purely with the goal to help my muscles. My muscles were hurting. My body was hurting. And what I found was not only my muscles heal. within weeks my lifelong anxiety was significantly better. And, I was very excited. I was like, oh my gosh, [00:04:00] I can’t wait to talk about this, teach this or research this.

And if you’re a dietitian in the acute care setting, you’re not allowed to teach low carbohydrate nutrition. And yeah that’s where I left off.

Carole Freeman: So I’m curious. Do you remember how you even heard of low carb we’ll base first? What made you decide that may be an answer?

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. I had been familiar with ketogenic diets and low carbohydrate diets. Like I was along under the impression that blood sugar stability was very important. Like no matter what your diet life disease state was, but, as a dietitian, I was just constantly indoctrinated with you need carbohydrates.

Everybody needs carbohydrates. It doesn’t matter. What if you’re type two diabetic underweight, overweight, everybody needs carbs. And ketogenic diets were talked and mentioned, but they weren’t. They were really like, oh, it’s a dangerous diet. It’s a very high, fat diet. It should only be used maybe with epilepsy in certain cases.

And I’d always followed a lot of the fitness world and I was very curious about a low carbohydrate diet and, I intuitively knew, and I imagine many people watching this [00:05:00] know this carbohydrates didn’t make me feel well. When I was running, when I was a high carbohydrate athlete, I was eating about 350 grams of carbohydrates a day.

And then when I turned 36, my performance started to suffer. I was having all kinds of muscles. Two sports dietitians told me I just needed more carbs. So I started eating 400, 500 grams of carbs a day, and things went from bad to worse. Like my anxiety went from, I couldn’t even leave the house.

I was having panic attacks, my whole body hurt. And I just, you deep down know, like this just doesn’t feel good. This doesn’t make me feel good. I was constantly hungry. I had, a lot of digestive issues and oh, the moment that I, decided I’m not gonna run anymore.

This is not working. My, my life is flying. I thought like, why not just give it a try, give it a try for a few days. Like I was just going to adopt a purely ketogenic. And then I heard about the carnivore diet and I remember literally like laughing like that. I think this is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard of.

Once again you’re very indoctrinated, not only with the need for grains, but also oh, fruits and vegetables. It’s so good for you. Unfortunately that’s where most people stop. Most people just are like, that’s crazy and [00:06:00] move on. But I, it was like, you know what, that’s crazy.

But all these people I’m seeing on Instagram and it’s an incarnate. They all look pretty happy and healthy. And I was not, I was a mess. And so really I said what I’m doing is not working. So I’m very grateful. Yeah. I reached out to a few people in the community. Just ask some basic questions and everybody was very gracious with just, this is what I’m doing.

This is what’s working for me. And I thought my only goal is like what if I just go very low carb carnivore for 30 days, maybe that all this protein will help my muscles. And I knew that like meat and Liver and things have iron, but I just, I was not, this is something we don’t teach in nutrition.

We don’t teach by the availability. We don’t teach about, the potential for, carbs and fight a gap, for anti-nutrients to block the absorption. And yeah. So I just, I remember that moment that I decided to do it honestly was scared. I’m like, oh my God, am I going to have enough energy?

I’m not going to be able to get through my day. It’s so funny. Cause I, I tell people too, like how we’re so far removed. From how humans are supposed to [00:07:00] eat. If you just take a step back, nothing about science, all, if you just say humans evolved eating meat and fat, like that’s how we evolve.

That’s how humans thrive. When I see things that are like ketos dangerous or meat causes cancer. It’s if that was true, human species wouldn’t exist. Like this evolved, we were completely free of chronic diseases until, processed carbohydrates and a lot of this.

Carole Freeman: Oh, so true. I remember so much of your story reminds me of various phases of my ignorance of keto, and then learning more. So I used to teach nutrition classes at a little school up in Portland, Oregon. I remember teaching all this stuff, and then showing an article of this family that was a hundred percent carnivore and laughing at it.

And all the students were laughing and the same question of like, how do they have any energy during the day? They must be just completely exhausted all day long and fast forward now. And I’m like, oh, now they had something figured out a long time ago. And I remember after [00:08:00] learning about. Where, carbohydrates are arm one non-essential macronutrients.

So we need protein. We need fat, but carbohydrates have no. Function in the body. And I remember telling him that yeah, posting it online and fellow dietitians that I went to school with was like that’s not true. The brain needs 130 carbs a day. And he’s that’s not true. And that’s what we’re taught.

But it turned out, but it can make them, it doesn’t have to. So I would say level your stories are so much of yeah we’re just taught the wrong thing and you’re right. If you logically go by. What did we eat before? We’d had farming, that’s only been the last 10,000 years.

What did we eat before?

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. And what’s interesting is sometimes, you have different experiences in your life and I just feel so grateful for, this journey started for me in late 2019 and continues and I still am. I still see things that make me go, wow. Oh my goodness. I was recently, I just got back from visiting my sister in California and I was in a hotel for a couple of days that had a continental.

And I’m not a parent, so my [00:09:00] non-existent children are perfect, but I was shocked. I was like to disclaim that how many not, and not just like little chubby kids, but these children there were, and I’m watching them eating, that is the waffles and the frosted flakes. But the issue is when we feed, when we eat all these carbohydrates, when we follow this food pyramid, when we construct our diets to have these, quote, unquote, healthy, whole grains and rices and breads, they set us up to be hungry.

You either have to like a lot of carbs or a lot of fat. And as we’ve shifted eating a lot of carbs on a lot of processed sugar, those are getting stored as fat. And then, they’re making us hungry and unhealthy, and I’m seeing that I don’t the fastest growing obese demographic is children ages two to five.

And I was just, I was struck because it wasn’t just oh, there’s this one or two chubby kids. It was like, holy. Cause this is our next generation.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. That’s always strikes me too, because you’re setting the foundation for the rest of their life, for their health. Whereas, lot of [00:10:00] parents, think, oh, they’re young.

Let’s just let them live. Their kids. They’re only young ones, but you’re really building their house. You’re building the foundation, the house, they have to live in the rest of their lives. I say good nutrition is even more important in childhood. Don’t wait until you’re an adult to fight your weight and your health.

Like why not have good health your whole

Michelle Hurn: life? Yeah. And you’re also establishing habits you’re establishing hopefully utilizing healthy coping, coping mechanisms, versus oh, you’re sad. Let me give you sugar. Or you’re happy. Let me give you sugar. Oh, you’re out of bad debt, yeah.

Yeah. It’s really it’s really interesting. And I constantly am disappointed. I see lots of dietitians that think that everything in moderation is fine. We need all these carbohydrates, but once again, it really comes down to our education is just poor. The academy of nutrition, which used to be the governing board of dietitians.

When I was a dietitian, when I became a dietitian in 2001, the number one sponsors were Coca-Cola Pepsi, co Frito-Lay, general mills. Kellogg’s Hershey’s. As of today, or sponsored by Barilla pasta the national confectionery association. That’s my [00:11:00] favorite where I literally sponsored my candy.

And that obviously impacts you know what, we’re what we’re going to teach people.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. Speaking of the. The re restrictions of the diet. So you’d shared with me before about how history of eating disorders and I was taught. If you put some on someone on a diet and you’re restricted food groups, the whole everything in moderation thing we were taught that’s what caused eating disorders.

And so the way to cure them was it let people eat whatever they wanted. So will you share with us a little bit more about what was that like with your past history of eating disorders and going on this primarily meat only.

Michelle Hurn: Absolutely. And yeah, you know what I mean to really flashback quickly when I was 12, I was diagnosed with anorexia.

I was a five feet tall and 57 pounds. So I was immediately inpatient hospitalization. The doctor told my parents, I had a 10% chance to survive. And I, I wasn’t supposed to hear that they went across the hall in a room and I was told to wait, I’m 12, so you don’t do what [00:12:00] you’re supposed to do.

But yeah, so it was very, it was pretty bad. And, I was immediately put on a 24 hour, two feeding system. That’s another interesting thing to feed ingredients are the same today. I mean that they were when I was 12. So over 25 years, two feeding back then I was fed maltodextrin, soy protein, foreign surface.

Exact same stuff today. It’s pretty terrible. Yeah. And that’s the dogma is that you’re going to be fed the standard American guidelines. You need to be able to eat all foods to heal. That’s one thing like you will know you are well when you can eat all foods and be okay with it. When you can eat a cookie, when you can eat, chicken, whatever, and you’re going to be okay.

And I realized that I’ve Val validate that. That sounds good in theory, but that completely ignored. Human physiology, how humans are designed to eat, metabolize that also completely ignores what certain foods do to our hormones and our brain. And I, when I decided, I had struggled when I left inpatient treatment I was still 12, about certain 13.

I was told you will have lifelong anxiety. You [00:13:00] will probably have racing thoughts with food and panic attacks. You will likely relapse. This is your cross to bear. That’s a lot for young human and they weren’t wrong. I struggled with food and, worrying and thinking and all kinds of things.

And when I decided, fast forward to I’m 36, I’m going to try this, all meat, all fat diet I’m married. And my wife was like, no, you can not do this eating disorder. This will set you back. This is terrible. And I don’t know, I can’t tell you why exactly, but I was like, I just feel like I need to do this.

And we thought about it, argued about it. Finally. She was like, all right, whatever, you’ll quit. And then, of course the first few days are rough. You’re transitioning from very high carb to low carbs. Like, how’s that going? It’s great. Your head is like electrolytes.

Everybody felt like there was announcement. I wish I didn’t know what I was doing. Within three weeks, the first after the first week, my muscles stopped hurting, but I was like I’m not running. And then I remember it was like 11 to 12 days into Integrating just meat and fat.

I was still working at the hospital at the time. And one of we were in a meeting and one of my [00:14:00] dietitians coworkers was like shaky. And she was like, Michelle, I got to get a snack. Do you need a snack? And I was like, we’re gonna, we’re going to eat lunch. And like at noon. And she goes, Michelle, it’s almost two.

And I was like, whoa, because I used to have to eat every few hours. I would get angry. Even like I said, those cold sweats. My, body was finally leveling out my foremost or leveling out. And then I got home almost exactly the third week mark, my wife was sitting there and was like, Hey, will you sit with me?

And you’re like, oh yeah, what’s going on? And she just said, I don’t know what’s going on. This is the best anxiety has been in the 11 years that I’ve known you. And that’s great. We need to find out why what is going on. And so we go down the rabbit hole. I did not know there was so much research.

Like we have so many clinical trials specifically on blood sugar stability. We can we’re type two diabetes. We can reverse type two diabetes with a ketogenic diet. We can start to reverse it within 14 days. I had patients who were diabetic for decades, I saw amputations and rotting, teeth and [00:15:00] hair falling out slash all this kinds of stuff.

Yeah, and I was just blown away. I was like, and then the mental aspect, depression leads. Our nation is the number one cause of disability. More people will not go to work because of depression versus anything, accidents, tumor, anything. And it’s not getting better. Bipolar disorder in our children has increased 4000% in the last two weeks.

This is not good. And it was Dr. Georgia. He who first talk to me about the impact of all these process carbohydrates and seed oils on our brain. We are literally shifting that the narrow transplant. Obviously you’re getting a dompamine response, but we’re shifting the neurotransmitters, that teacher.

How to, or allow our body to cope with stress and learn to behavior in GABA, in the brain. So high that our brain can no longer cope with stress. We find high levels of GABA and suicide victims and people, a lot of illicit substances. It’s it’s not good. So

Carole Freeman: yeah. So yeah, [00:16:00] we have the knowledge that we don’t have to be suffering from these things. So I’m glad that you’re here again, helping get the word out. Hopefully just one more person hears this information and can take control of their health back. And there’s no, and

Michelle Hurn: It can be hard specifically with anorexia.

I wanted to, I did a presentation on anorexia. I wanted to make sure there was enough science for it. And like you said, there’s this okay, you have somebody who’s severely underweight. Who’s terrified of food. How in the world, can you feed them a diet that doesn’t include lots of carbohydrates or sugar or.

And here’s why it says what I’ll tell you that I found in that I believe we started Michelle’s at the center for healing people in our anorexia. When you have starved yourself or you have been bingeing and purging, you have damaged your intestinal epithelium. What does that mean? You’ve damaged your GI system.

Your GI system is incredibly important for you to absorb nutrition. If you cannot absorb. Then you they’re effectively useless to you. It doesn’t matter how many vitamins, whatever I give. If you can’t absorb, you need to be able to [00:17:00] absorb things, to build, for your hormones to work, to build neurotransmitters in your brain.

And you also so many people with anorexia, including myself report, incredibly high levels of GI pain, stomach constipation, diarrhea. And when I was in treatment, I was told the top on your head, you’re making this up. Nobody hurt. You’re feeding us, you’re making us hurt. And so by, by following a very high fat, high meat, potentially ketogenic or.

What you’re doing is you’re providing the most bioavailable nutrition. And once again, we don’t teach this and via TEDx, what does this mean? That nutrition and meat is much, much more absorbable than the nutrition. For example, once again, if you can’t absorb it, it is effectively useless to you.

I like to use the example of like iron and spinach versus steak, steak, you can absorb at 20% where iron is like 1.7%. I always say that would be like, I wrote you a check for a thousand dollars and you get super excited and you’re like, oh, I’m Michelle, I’m going to go cash it. And they’re like, yeah, she’s had $17 in her bank account and you’re like, [00:18:00] it matters.

Can you access the funds? Can you. Yeah. And when you don’t have all the fiber, you don’t have all the fight like acid, you don’t have things that are going to potentially block you from using that nutrition. Look, how different would it be to? And when you get the meat and fat, you stabilize blips, or just that alone, we know reduces anxiety, but how we feel and treatment for eating disorders is we give you, all of these carbs, all this processed sugars say energy, blood sugar, cause you crashed and you feel sad.

And then you’re, have all the side effects and your stomach hurts. And then we do it again and again. And we’re like, man, I don’t know why they’re I was 27 different medications, so anyway, my, my theory and my thought, and I’ve seen this in several individuals is what you need.

This is not a low calorie diet. If you’re underweight, four to 5,000, I’ve talked to one individual to 8,000 calories. Jaime high-fat there’s not to be no carbohydrate, but minimal carbohydrates for a set period of time to let your system heal. And then we built into it. And then for bulemia or, binge-eating disorder, [00:19:00] you don’t have to eat all foods to be well, that’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard in my life.

That is the company you’re telling, trying to sell their stuff. Nobody needs, that’s like telling an alcoholic. If you can’t drink one, then you’re not that’s nobody.

Carole Freeman: If you can’t get moderation you are not healed of your alcoholism, right?

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. And I’ve known

Carole Freeman: yeah. Michelle, that analogy, but that’s so true.

We don’t tell alcoholics that your cured when you can drink in moderation. No we know that those foods cue up the brain too much and they can’t control it. Why are we trying to tell people? Any kind of eating disorder that like somehow you’re going to be able to achieve moderation with these highly addictive foods that hijack your brain

Michelle Hurn: chemistry.

Our society thinks there is something wrong with you or you are missing out, or you’re somehow not having fun or whatever. If you don’t want to eat pasta and Oreos I can tell you how many times I, my wife and I have been out or whatever oh, you’re a runner. You must want these pancakes in this.

It’s no, I brought my beef. [00:20:00] And it’s like why wouldn’t you do that? You were spending all this energy, doing all this. You look so lean and my whole life I’ve been relatively lean. I did not have, a metabolic disorder per se. I wasn’t type two diabetic or obese, but my.

Crippling, everybody experiences, symptoms potentially differently, but yeah, we don’t if somebody says, yeah, Hey, I’m not drinking. I’m a recovering alcoholic. Everyone would be like, oh yeah, cool, man. No worries. But if you’re like, you know what, I’m going to pass on the cake.

I just, I really struggle with sugar. They’d be like, oh good, come on and have some fun, we just have a great different attitude about it. Unfortunately it takes a very strong person. It’s hard because there’s so much societal. And, when I think about like a recovering, maybe addict you don’t drive down the street and see ads for methamphetamines.

Sometimes you do obviously for alcohol, but we’ve even regulated cigarettes. We don’t even allow cigarettes to, to be advertised. In like big billboards or in magazines. But the food it’s everywhere. I think I shared with you, like you literally, I was trying to check the sports news and there’s an ad and there’s [00:21:00] everywhere you go.

There’s processed food. I want my dogs at the vet. They have a free mochaccino machine. Like you press a button and you can get a sugary cappuccino, like it’s we have to rise above if we’re going to be metabolically healthy. And we also.

Carole Freeman: Wait. So getting the humans addicted to the sugar, wasn’t enough, they’re going to, they gotta get the dogs addicted as well.

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. The dog food industry is even by Mars, while a lot of the bigger companies are owned by processed food companies, they’re putting nonsense in our dogs. So yeah it’s really sad, and I’ve shared before that healthcare. If you have an acute accident, let’s say, God help you.

You’re in a Carson or something. Our healthcare system is second to none. It is amazing, big problem. They can save your life. I I was pushing down some stuff in my trash and I didn’t know there was glass in there. I ended up having eight stitches and that was great. Went in, no problem.

But if you have a chronic illness, our healthcare system. It is designed to keep you safe [00:22:00] a society. We do not live in a socialist society. This is a capitalist society. It is designed to make money. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, and the only way they can do that is to keep you sick.

If they heal you, you’re gone. You’re happy you and I are paying, for diabetic medication or whatever. If they kill you, then you’re gone. We got to keep you needing surgeries. We got teeth. We got to keep you amputations. That’s how it is. You guys, you have to realize you and your life. The system is designed to keep you sick.

You have to think outside the city.

Carole Freeman: Oh speaking of that system, walk us through. I bet you discovered the healing power of this for yourself. You started to feel so great. I bet you were like, oh my gosh, I’m going to go change the lives of everybody I’m working with now. So walk us through whatever.

Trying to bring this into clinical practice.

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. First of all, my dietitian coworkers thought I was totally whack. Like I think they rallied around, like maybe she’s doing this for her running. Curiously though. And I’ve shared this before, and this is not trying to be judgemental.

It’s just purely facts. [00:23:00] And I worked in three different facilities and about 60% of the dietitians I’ve worked with her. It’s not overweight, obese. But yeah, so I immediately was like, oh my gosh, I went to my boss because when you work at a facility, you generally have access to to print out full clinical trials.

Often you’ll have that memberships or something. But but yeah, I could add, and I had all this information, then I had to highlight it and I was like look at this we can literally change. We can go. And I was like, I was ready to set up meetings with doctors. I had emailed a bunch of people and she pulled me in her office and I was like, no, like this is against regulations.

We could get in trouble for. And I was like we’re not helping people. And she asked me, she said you are you’re charting. I’m like yeah, of course. She’s you’re fine then I’m not really, the message was, we’re not really trying to help people. We are trying to check bosses, get insurance reimbursement, make sure everything’s checked off and move on.

And that’s what burns had. If y’all know people like nurses, doctors, a lot of people get burnt out with this because it’s just like this rotating cycle of sickness, and so I struggled. I was like, how am I going to get through my day with not being able, I have a type two [00:24:00] diabetic that I see trying to shovel down this brown rice that they think is garbage.

And thinking that all, if they’re obese and I’m like, eh, I know I should eat. And so I struggled, and I will neither confirm nor deny that I may be said like, Hey, I’m going to chart this, but would you like what could actually help you? But yeah, I actually, that was one of the times I, a patient got excited about a low carb diet and told his nurse who told my boss and I was suspended.

Yeah,

Keto Leads to Dietitian's Dilemma Keto Carole

Carole interviews Michelle Hurn, registered and licensed Dietitian, about her Keto journey.

Carole Freeman: at the beginning, a little bit of trouble along the way and trying to right the ship that’s been going the wrong direction for so long. So it’s a. It’s nice to hear that your passion, like you’re doing it because you truly cared about these people you were working with. If you didn’t care about that.

You wouldn’t have tried at all to, to change the system or anything like that. So I applaud your efforts as stuff.

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. And I definitely found in that it’s just not something we can really change from the inside. This is a very powerful system. We saw that in.

Dietary guidelines. Now they’ve published it. It’s, nobody’s surprised at 99 or [00:25:00] 95% of people in the guideline advisory board have ties to process food. It’s Nina who told us that every single member of Congress, not one, not 10, every single member is sponsored by a pharmaceutical. It’s going to be very hard to change this.

Once again, it’s a capitalist society. The only goal is to make money and we are only goes to make money. He don’t really care who you are. And I wish that if I didn’t have a soul, I could still, you can make so much money. It was very hard to leave healthcare. You have all these student loans.

So this is, this was what I wanted to do for my life. And, it got, when I, my health was restored, it was like, I can’t do this anymore. But then it was like, oh crap, what am I going to do? What do I do? That’s the dietitian’s dilemma.

Carole Freeman: And w were you required to. Based medicine. Did they use that phrase with you?

Michelle Hurn: Evidence-based medicine. So you froze for a second. The,

Carole Freeman: Did you hear that? So were you required to do evidence-based medicine or evidence-based nutrition? Did they use that phrase?

Michelle Hurn: We, didn’t not really evidence based, but [00:26:00] what it was basically the nutrition guidelines and you had to use only what the hospital had approved.

Like you couldn’t even have a separate handout that didn’t have what the hospital had on it. And we know that evidence-based you have so much epidemiology and non-sensitive. It doesn’t really make sense. It just it’s it’s like carb counting for diabetics or these recommendations where people would say, oh, you don’t need the, too much protein will cause kidney failure.

It’s we’ve already debunked all this stuff.

Carole Freeman: Okay. Where should we go next on your journey? So to always you wrote this book, how did that come about? Tell us about the dietitians dilemma.

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. In back in 2019, I wanted to qualify for the Olympic trials. I was training a bunch and then, like I said, I lost my health.

Couldn’t run it all, did the low carb diet, got my health back. And I was just so inspired. I was like, I couldn’t believe it. Like I did not know. There was so much research on a low carb diet. I was told it was nonsense. It would cause your heart failure. And I just was so super excited and like I, and I probably first thought that so would my colleagues, so would my healthcare.

So when people in the [00:27:00] system and there was so much. And I was told once again, you have to only preach this way of eating. So every free moment I had, I was like, you know what, I’m just going to start talking, making notes about disease states that I believe could be helped by a low carb diet.

And I started reaching out to anyone who would listen. I started listening to all kinds of podcasts. I talked to Dr. Chris Palmer, talked to her westbound, Dr. Beckman teach me, talk to me, share with me. I want to learn. I want to learn. And so every free moment, it almost was a joke that like, during our lunch break, Shell’s working on her book, and I’m like, no, I really am gonna write a book.

And I had actually had one dietitian, pull me aside and was like, Like you, even if you’re right, like you’ll never be able to work in a hospital. And I said we’ll see. And and then also because I was so healthy and I literally, I’m not joking. I could not run at all.

Like I was getting full sleds and about, probably about a little over a month into my low carb journey. I’m just starting to write the book. My wife just casually mentioned you should go for it. I was around more. She’s you’re annoying me. Go for a run. And I ended up [00:28:00] like, huh, you know what?

I’ll just go jog a few miles. I should be fine. And I ran eight miles, like no carbs. And that also got the wheels turning in my head. Like maybe my story isn’t over. Maybe my competitive running isn’t over, my boy, she was like, oh, fun. You could be a recreational runner. I was like, what have I run ultra marathons?

What if I forget this 26 mile? What if I run like six hours or 50 miles? And. Okay. She, wasn’t thrilled about that idea at first, but we’re like, let’s give this a minute. Let’s see how I feel. I reached out to Zach bitter who was the current world record holder of a hundred mile race who also follows the low carb diet.

And he was like yeah let’s try it. This. And so as the days went by give us to be honest, I was very angry. It was hard working in the hospital cause I saw so much sickness and you see what’s being served with the patients. What’s being taught to the patients with the nurses believe. And also I got more frustrated when I would talk to nurses and I would just hit what’s going on?

That’s a lot of carbs for a diabetic. They laugh it off. Yeah, it’s fine. We’re giving them insulin like, oh, we know it was almost just like [00:29:00] people were just resigned to the fact like. I haven’t had one doctor tell me, Hey, Michelle, we just have to assume people aren’t going to do what they’re supposed to.

And I was like, all right, that’s what, we’re, that’s the assumption we’re starting with. Like, how about we at least teach them, give them options, knowledge. Yeah. And so then I, then it was just like co then COVID happened. And so I lost a lot of my dietitian hours and I was put in the. Where patients called for eight hours a day.

I had to take calls where patients ordered food. I wasn’t allowed to give any nutrition. I just had people call with diabetes and say, I want a caramel macchiato and cake. And that was that moment. I knew okay, I gotta get outta here. I’m I can’t do this. I wasn’t allowed to tell people anything, but once people would ask what should I eat?

And I said, and then I’d get in trouble for that. And so yeah, so I, I found a there was, and then a lot of places were closing, but there was a part-time job in Portland, Oregon. Basically helping make sausage, breaking down animals, working with regenerative farms. And, we looked at it financially and it’s I’m going to be taking like, I’m going to be making.

22% of what I made [00:30:00] in the hospital and I’m going to be working 40 times harder, but I loved it. Like I was so ready to get out of there. And, it was very hard manual labor on my days, basically consisted of I’d run, 10 to 18 miles in the morning. I’d work at scrap. It’s called scratch meets from 10 to four, and then I’d come home and write until I fall asleep.

And I was just every single day, we’re going to do this until I get this book. And I’m just, I’m grateful, I’m grateful that I have a story to tell. I’m grateful that I’ve had, I’ve been so fortunate to have met and networked with so many great people. I met Dr. Ken Berry, Diana Rogers, so many fantastic.

Do you know Sean Baker? And I’m just, I just want people to know people ask me I really don’t care what people want to eat. Like I’m very happy with my life. I’m great, but I believe. If I could leave a legacy, it would be that every single person with a mental health disorder, with depression, anxiety, OCD, every single human with type two diabetes, struggling with sarcopenia who has issue, heart issues.

And certainly [00:31:00] my history, every person with an eating disorder is presented this as an option that you know what, this can do this. How do you feel about. Are you willing to try this? Because what we do in healthcare is we just throw medication at you. We let you do your same shitty diet and you don’t get mattered.

Carole Freeman: Oh yes. It’s so true. So sad and so true. But yeah. Why can’t the options be given there? Because there’s so many people that I’ve seen, I’ve worked with. Once they get keto done the right way that they just feel free for the first time, right? Like I’m not obsessed with food. I’m not constantly hungry and craving mental clarity and energy.

And like, why has this never been an option before that’s been presented?

Michelle Hurn: And isn’t that the ultimate irony is people say, oh, it’s so restrictive. I’ve never felt more free. What’s restrictive is thinking and obsessing about. If you’re overweight, restrictive is, being overweight and paying.

And then, I was literally sitting on the sideline of my own life. If you’re dealing with depression, anxiety, you know exactly what I’m talking about. Certainly an eating disorder, tendencies it’s [00:32:00] socks. And if someone had told me when I was 12, God, even when I was a teenager in my twenties Hey, you know what?

This. And I appreciate that. You said do keto the right way, because what really frustrates me is when people are like, oh, I tried keto, it doesn’t work. I’m like how long did you do it? Oh, like a few days I just ate a bunch of fat and it didn’t work. It’s you need to, nobody would do that. You and just be like, oh, the doctor prescribed an antibiotic.

I just took one. And it didn’t work. You have to do. And also we’re just such a quick fix society. I. Things delivered in two days from Jeff Bezos. And I can Google whatever I want, but you have to follow the laws of nature, like nothing in life that is worth anything. It all takes time.

It’s not sexy. It’s not fun if it doesn’t sell well, infomercials, but it’s time on task. If you have been sick for a decade, it’s going to take time. The good news is it’s not going to take a decade. I have. Rideable results in three weeks, many people, 30 days, how to give it time. And I am better today than I was six months ago than I was six months [00:33:00] before.

So you have to buy into the process.

Carole Freeman: Yeah, it and you’re oh, that’s, I’m so glad you said that too, because people want instant results. They want. The nice thing is that they do feel better pretty quickly. Now. Not everything gets healed immediately, but I’ll just brag on one of my clients recently.

So she did a year over year DEXA scan. She’s lost over 70 pounds, and I already know her labs are beautiful. Perfect. Everything is perfectly healthy in her. And she’s been with me almost a year and a half. And her DEXA scan showed that she did not lose. Any lean tissue in that 70 pounds lost. And in fact, she gained a pound of lean mass in the time that she’d done this with no exercise.

So the trainer that did the DEXA scan for her was like, Ooh, you’re your weight trainer is on point. The fact that you lost that weight and didn’t lose it. And she goes I’m not exercising. I’m not doing any weight training. It’s just my nutritionist. And so it’s just. [00:34:00] Because I was training probably were trained in school, as well as it, once you turn 30, it’s just downhill from there, from your bone mass.

And so one of the things I noticed was her bone density increased and. My theory. I don’t know if there’s any research. Maybe you can tell me if there is, but my theory is a couple things. So one is adequate salt, which is required on keto to avoid the S the symptoms, the side effects, coupled with adequate fat.

Cause you know, the physiology to get em minerals into bones. You need fat soluble vitamins in order to signal that. And we have some studies that I know of that are like keto preserves, muscle mass, better than some other diets, but this all coupled together. So anyway, so she was thrilled.

The former bodybuilder, that was the guy running the, the DEXA scan clinic that she was at was just astounded at her results. And so just, another example of cause you’re talking about sarcopenia. Sarcopenia is the muscle wasting,

Michelle Hurn: it’s just, it’s so much. And we also have people who are obese and sarcopenic, just so much fat and minimal

Carole Freeman: muscle.

And then the so then osteoporosis as [00:35:00] well while there’s some some worry that, a keto diet causes osteoporosis, but that’s not true. And I would add osteoporosis to your your

Michelle Hurn: list of things. Yeah. You certainly could, and I think you nailed it. I don’t know the salt.

That’s very interesting, but definitely you have to have fat, you need adequate fats to build bone and yeah. And, vitamins, AED, and K are there for the fat-soluble. And you also need, your hormones have to be stable. And I feel like when we’re eating a lot of those processed carbohydrates, we’re throwing, our blood sugar goes up, insulin comes in and we’re getting cortisol.

We’re getting glute, we’re getting all kinds of wacky things happening with our hormones. We stabilize our hormones. We provide adequate saturated, fat and saturated fat is. When we eat a lot of these vegetable oils that is very inflammatory, that causes a lot of oxidation and inflammation, so we remove those, we’re eating the good saturated fats. Also, you made a good point. We’re providing adequate protein, especially women. We do not eat enough protein. This two to three ounces a day. Nonsense is ridiculous. Eating one egg a day, or, I had the tiny little, a [00:36:00] handful at dinner.

No, you need adequate protein. And a lot of fats.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. I’m so glad you said that too, because this whole, like plant-based message that’s out right now and how they’re going towards like lists Mondays at schools and all this kind of stuff is you’re not doing anybody favors. In fact, you’re making them not only nutrients are missing, but the blood sugar regulation and so much more stuff.

We won’t even get into here today, but

women need lots more protein than they think. Probably I think probably every woman I’m working with is probably we’re getting her to at least double and maybe even triple the amount of protein she was used to eating to start with. Yeah.

Michelle Hurn: Yeah. The regular, the RDA is 0.08. This is ridiculous. And there’ve been lots of studies that have encouraged, recommended pleaded.

We need to go higher than this. And they just, but when you do that, you got to cut down on something and they don’t want to cut down on their process carbohydrate base there. So I don’t feel like they’re, the recommendations are going to change, but yes, meat and [00:37:00] meat, isn’t just protein. That’s another thing we have to think.

Human physiology. We H we absorb meat. It’s the vitamins. It’s the minerals. It’s the, carnitine, carnosine Taryn, all these co-factors that work perfectly and synergistically in our body. You want to try to reproduce it in this little plant-based lab created nonsense. That’s terrible.

I wouldn’t feed that to my dog or my chickens do not eat that. It’s not good for the planet as a huge carbon footprint. It’s horrible for your body. And it’s just making people in Silicon valley a lot of money. So don’t fall for the.

Carole Freeman: Yes. Oh gosh. What a, what am I the same client that had such good results on Dexascan?

Her son has been inspired by her journey and he’s gained remarkable health. So he, I think he’s about seventh grade. And not only did he lose 14 pounds. Gained five inches. The fat percentage change was remarkable. And one of his teachers is having them do research on plant-based stuff right now, but she’s clearly a plant-based person.

And so making them watch like forks over knives and research, this and that. And then th you’ll [00:38:00] this, wait til you hear this, wait until you hear this. So he had to have a diet diary and turn that into his teeth. And he was forced to take a form home to his mother and have it signed to inquire as to why he eats so much meat.

Cause that’s just so bad for him and for the planet. So we had some good discussions and thankfully he’s a very intelligent young man. Who’s this is not right, what she’s telling me. And so he’s rebelling against what the teachings are, but it’s just it’s going into our schools now and these poor kids.

Yeah.

Michelle Hurn: It’s really bad. And some of the documentaries are just so bad, but they hire people, and they have these scary voices that, music will kill you. And it’s ridiculous. It doesn’t have any basis in reality. Like I, this is not reality. Once again, with me, it was dangerous.

The human species would not exist. And obviously it’s just use your common sense. Are things created in a lab in Silicon valley? Is that better for human health? And it’s just like humans. We need calories. We need meat that we need enough [00:39:00] bioavailable nutrition that is very hard to get in plants.

Plants have lots of things called anti. Things that actually bind iron deficiency. We is the number one mineral deficiency worldwide, more than 25% of us are iron deficient kids. It’s about 50%. And it’s even if you’re eating meat and stuff, we’re eating things that bind with it.

If you’re eating grains, beans, OLEDs, peanut butter, those things bind with with iron they’re full of phytic acid, so it’s like this notion that eating more plants is better getting more fiber, It’s actually binding to a lot of the Dean can iron and removing these things and making them less bioavailable throughout history.

Humans ate very small amounts of plans. Of course, if you live close to the equator, you ate more, plants were very small. They didn’t have a lot of carbohydrates. We did eat some fruits, tubers and things, but the human species thrives off meat and fat. Once again, you can’t defy the laws of nature.

You can try. You ended up just making what is his name? The guy that the Titanic that made that maybe making me, making him a lot of lenses. He owns a lot of this plant. [00:40:00]

Carole Freeman: Oh, does he? I did some digging awhile ago about iron and, same thing. You said that it’s really hard to get enough iron.

And I find you have to have three animal Blake based meals a day to get adequate iron. Nevermind. If you can absorb it all or utilize it, right? So even just having one meal, that’s not animal food-based, you’re going to be behind in the amount of iron that you need to consume a date. So a meatless meal or a meatless day, you’re like.

Like you said, kids need so much more and don’t even knew cause they’re growing and that’s essential for that too. So went through a

Michelle Hurn: history of kids. We used to eat especially if you grew up close to a farm, you steep eggs, you’d even have bacon. You’d have skew steak, you’d have it. School you’d have meats.

And at dinner you always had some type of Emmy. And now it’s just like my God, if you look at what kids eat, it’s just like French toast and chocolate milk and a bag of chips and candy bar for lunch. And mom and dad are exhausted. So we’re getting McDonald’s or pizza for dinner. It’s like we’re getting processed junk, and so little actual.

Protein. And that’s a huge problem. And I think that’s, what’s contributing or one of the main factors [00:41:00] contributing to obesity. And then, we have kids, like I w when I was on a plane, I watched a woman give to the kid, literally pull out the lucky charm, like from the big box and give her to this kid.

And she was just eating. She had to be like four years old and halfway through the plane, she’s screaming and freaking out. And her mom’s why won’t you be quiet? I’m like call on me. I know you just gave her like 90 grams of sugar, but once again, one more time then, oh, these things are fine.

They’re good snacks. Eat them in moderation. Like we have to, as a society, come back to common sense and say, you know what we need to be. We need to be giving our kids snacks that are low or no in sugar. I’m not anti-car by I eat some carrots, I eat some berries, but if everybody had them as a rule, Low percentage of their diet.

And certainly if you’re a growing child or an athlete, you can have more, but having your foundation start with that foundation, meat, fat fish, seafood, butter, tallow, all the condos, whatever. And then, you’ll have a small amount of carbohydrates. We’d flip the. You want to heal the planet, we’d heal the planet quickly.

You’re doing that.

Carole Freeman: Yeah. So true. [00:42:00] Then I think that, the, all the big corporations that are making money off of us being sick right now, they should invest in, wellness technologies, right? Like you guys can still make money, just create, some apps for health or, some apps to a lot of moving into the the.

Yeah.

Michelle Hurn: And that’s, and that’s what you, I was actually, it’s hard though, I literally like I was on a run and I was like, man, that’s frustrating that I can’t make any money doing what I went to school to do, and processed food companies. Like it’s very cheap. Producing their food, they’re making a ton of money.

So it’s, it’s hard to do the right thing. And I’m fortunate that, my wife has a good job and I was in a position to take a huge pay. Cut. But, I’m always hopeful and I’m always hopeful that we can reach people, grassroots that we can, somebody watches this and is man, my health is crappy.

Like maybe I what would my life be like if I decided to change and I reached out and got a health coach, cause I’m just telling you I, if you had told me a few years ago, how much different my life would be health wise, I wouldn’t believe you. I was like, no, I’ve been dealing with this stuff for decades, but it’s amazing how.[00:43:00]

Eating the correct fizz and really removing some of those more inflammatory foods just changes everything.

Carole Freeman: Oh yeah. The same thing I would have. I would have totally I’m trying to add a banner for your website. I would have same thing. I would’ve been the person that was like, oh, it’s a fad.

It’s not sustainable. It’s not good for you. You can’t cut out all this whole food group. Like you needed to do moderation and

Michelle Hurn: Know, I have people I’ll ask me sometimes that are like, Hey, my, my dad, my brother and my sister, how do I change them? I’m doing so well. And my best friend is struggling.

She put, she won’t give up soda. What I do. And the tough answer is you cannot change people who are not ready to change. But you can live it because people desperately want healing. Like I’ve worked. I’ve worked in catcher care. I’ve worked on some pretty people want healing, their parents, people want to heal.

And when they see you being healthy, first they might not believe you. But if you keep just showing up being yourself, like eventually when they’re ready, cause that was my thing. I was like, okay I’m scared about this keto thing where you’ll look pretty healthy and happy and I’m not [00:44:00] healthy and happy.

So when people are ready, then you can share your story. And I always have a few talking points ready. Someone asked me like, oh, why are we know that me? And I’m like, yeah, you won’t believe me and my anxiety so much, but because people can relate to that, but had. Oh, I’m like, man, I used to be tired of the military and I have stable energy.

Oh, wow. Really, give people a couple of talking points, but do not be those, nobody likes those people that knock on your door. They want to tell you about Jesus. I’m a Jesus fan, but nobody likes those people. And you’re like, no so you can’t be that person. Like it just sets.

People are like, go away. You have to be, just show up, live it. And when they’re ready, you’re ready to share your story.

Carole Freeman: Oh, that’s such great advice. I love that you asked that question of yourself. I should have asked that too. Any thing in closing, anything you would hope I would ask you about, I’m going to put your website up on the banner here?

Michelle Hurn: No, I appreciate that. Yeah, I’m sure I could talk about a million different things, but I really appreciate the time I’m gonna if people are looking for me, I’m on Instagram at Brun, eat meats for Pete. Yeah. The dietitians dilemma.net is my website. Meet, [00:45:00] repeat, run, eat meat.

Okay. And then my book is on Amazon. You can go to the dietitians, dilemma.net. I got a paperback e-book and audible and yeah. And the next I’m going to be at keto con and Austin in July, I’ll be at a low carb USA in August. Yeah. And I’m always open to questions, feedback and yeah, I guess it’s like a.

Carole Freeman: So great, Michelle, thank you so much for being here today, sharing your story. Thank you for doing the hard work that we got to turn this whole ship around and is a lot of work. All of us rowing together, trench we’re making

Michelle Hurn: waves, and that’s a really good analogy though, because sometimes I’m sure you feel this way too.

I guess, closing that man, you feel like you’re doing all this work and you’re advocating and you’re like, oh, the world is so messed up. But it’s the ripple effect. You throw the pebble in it, like you don’t know and you, and I don’t know. If somebody might hear something today and I don’t know.

And then a few months down the road, they’re like, oh, I remember hearing that. And I understand her. So I would encourage anybody to like, keep sharing, keep advocating, keep living it, cause you, you may [00:46:00] not know you might be impacting the people around you

Carole Freeman: for sure. So such great advice. So speaking of that, share this episode with everyone.

Yeah, again, thank you so much for being here. Our next episode. And a couple of weeks, episode 42 is going to be Nicole Laurent. She is a licensed mental health counselor and uses a keto diet to help her mental health of her clients. And so I don’t know if you know her or not, but I’m gonna have her on next.

Also on a personal note, I’m headed to Vegas next week, so we won’t have a live show, but also follow me on Instagram and Facebook to see how I live my life keto, even while I’m traveling. And even in Vegas, it’s not hard folks, you can do it. So again, thanks. Thank you to our guest, Michelle for being here.

And thank you for sharing all your hard work and everyone’s support the show by leaving a review. If you listen to this podcast platform share this episode on Facebook or YouTube that you’re watching too. And remember help us grow the show and we’ll help you shrink. And thanks again everyone for being here today.

We’ll see you next [00:47:00] time.

Bye.

Other Episodes You May Enjoy:

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