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Carole Freeman:              Well hi everyone, I’m Carole Freeman of Hypnotic Nutrition. I’m the creator of the 90-Day Keto Diet program. I’m here today with Dr. Paula Wrentmore.

Dr Wrentmore:                 That’s right.

Carole Freeman:              Did I say it correctly? All right. She is a chiropractor and also a ketoer, keto follower. I invited her to chat with us here and share her business profession, how she got into what she’s doing, and all that. Tell us who are you? How do you identify yourself?

Dr Wrentmore:                 Wow. I’m very multi-passionate. I’ve done lots of things in my past lives. The one theme that I see that surrounds all the things that I do is potential. Like human potential. Like who are we really inside and does the outside match what we are on the inside? If it doesn’t, which do you like better? What you want on the outside or what you feel on the inside but maybe hasn’t expressed itself on the outside yet.

My job is, as a chiropractor, is to, no pun intended, but really to bring you into alignment with who you are. That means getting your spine in the right place stacked up so your posture is really good, so that all the joints of your body are functioning properly, because if your joints aren’t functioning you’re not going to be moving very well. That is the key to movement is having functional joints. That’s really how I approach health is very functionally. Not so much static like, “What do you look like,” because you can have a picture perfect appearance but if things aren’t working properly, it doesn’t really do much good.

Carole Freeman:              I’m curious, did you … You’re from Texas, Austin, did you grow up there?

Dr Wrentmore:                 No. That was where we lived for the last 10 years before we moved here. I grew up-

Carole Freeman:              And here is the Seattle area.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. But I grew up in California near the San Francisco Bay Area.

Carole Freeman:              Oh, beautiful.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. Yeah. I went to school there in the Bay Area. Went to San Francisco State University and I went to Life Chiropractic College West. It was in San Lorenzo. Now they have a humongous, amazing, beautiful facility in Hayward which I graduated too soon for that but I did contribute.

Carole Freeman:              What led you though to go to chiropractic school?

Dr Wrentmore:                 Gosh. Can I say I heard a voice in my head?

Carole Freeman:              Okay, yeah. Sure.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I did. I heard a voice in my head. I was a massage therapist before I was a chiropractor for, oh gosh, maybe 10 years before I went to chiropractic school. I was doing massage therapy.

Carole Freeman:              You’re very in touch with the body and helping it to feel good and work right then.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Absolutely. Culturally too, I grew up in a predominantly Korean household and I grew giving my mom and my dad massages. As I got older, there was a little bit of payment involved in this like a quarter. A dollar by the time I was 12 to get us to do this.

Carole Freeman:              You have lifelong training then.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. Yeah. I grew up doing it. It was destiny, I guess. I grew up with an idea of natural healing and my mom would always be brewing, oh my god, all these tincture and tonics and things in the kitchen. Like Chinese herbs that would smell up your whole house. My friends would come over and go, “What is that?”

Carole Freeman:              Did she make homemade kimchi too?

Dr Wrentmore:                 She did.

Carole Freeman:              I’ve heard that’s quite pungent smelling.

Dr Wrentmore:                 It is. Know it.

Carole Freeman:              I had some friends at Bastyr that would talk about … She just always wanted to make a batch but her boyfriend made her keep it out on the back porch because it was-

Dr Wrentmore:                 Smart man. Smart man. Yeah. My mother always had two refrigerators. One on the back porch and one in the kitchen, and the back porch was the kimchi refrigerator. Yeah. It’s very pungent but it’s fermented cabbage kind of like sauerkraut but with garlic and pepper.

Carole Freeman:              Much tastier, spicy and yeah.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Well, I’m a little biased. I think it’s very tasty, and it’s really good for your gut and it populates your gut flora for you. I’m always amazed when people who are not Korean enjoy kimchi because I grew up … I was probably the only Korean within 100 mile radius so it was really exotic and foreign to everybody.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. Well going to Bastyr we get a lot of training about how to make our own different ferments. We learn to make sauerkraut, and kimchi, and some other different cultural things too. I can appreciate it more than probably the average person in the United States, but I understand the benefits of it, but I also like spicy food and so … Yeah.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Well, what really surprised me is that Korean food is now a very popular food. You see even in Austin there were food trucks …I don’t know. You guys have food trucks in Seattle, don’t you?

Carole Freeman:              We have a few. Portland is a lot bigger market for that, but-

Dr Wrentmore:                 Austin’s a big food truck kind of place, and there was Korean-Mexican fusion. Oh my god, it was so good. A few years before I discovered this my husband and I, we’re both amateur foodies, but he said, “Wouldn’t it be great if we took TexMex, Korean put them together and got a food truck?”

Carole Freeman:              And then you found one.

Dr Wrentmore:                 And then we found one. It’s like, “Ugh, someone’s already doing our dream. See?” You got to jump on it when you think it.

Carole Freeman:              Oh, okay. You grew up with probably a very healthy diet then, right?

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. Definitely.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. I’m going to go back to trace your steps to chiropractic. You heard a voice. You had a calling basically to get into chiropractic.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I did. I was doing massage for many years and I had a really great practice working with great people. I was feeling like I wanted to do something more, maybe have a little bit more … I don’t know if responsibility is the word, but something with a little bit more to it than what massage was giving to me although, god I love doing massage. I thought, “Well, there’s Chinese medicine, acupuncture, herbs and all of that, or chiropractic.” Those were the two. I was like, “What do I do? What do I do? What do I do?” One day, I was at a crosswalk in downtown San Francisco-

Carole Freeman:              You have really great life metaphors, right? Your passion is getting people into alignment and then you were at a crosswalk is where you made a decision.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I never thought of that, but it’s true. You’re right. I was at the crosswalk watching the lights blinking, the beep, beep, beep, and all that. As I’m listening, watching, I just stopped. It was like okay, this is what I heard. “Chiropractic wouldn’t be bad.” I mean, okay, as far as like prophetic voices go, that may not be the deepest soul kind of voice but that’s what I heard. I thought, “Okay. Let’s check it out.” It turned out to be a really good thing for me. I was very happy.

Carole Freeman:              When you go into chiropractic school, do you choose the form you’re going to use or do you learn different ones in school and then you pick that? People watching may not know that there’s, what, 62 different types of chiropractic-

Dr Wrentmore:                 There’s so many. In our school, it was really wonderful, because there were a lot of techniques that we were trained in as part of our education. I don’t even know how many there are. I would hazard to say there may be 100 or more different kinds of techniques. It seems like the art part of chiropractic, the individual practitioner brings to their practice a part of themselves, so each person’s going to have a little bit different way of expressing what they do. One of the things that was emphasized in the school that I graduated from was that chiropractic is a philosophy, art, and a science which I really like that a lot.

You need the science for sure and I’m a very science-oriented person. I want to look at the results, I want it to be calculable, I want it to be qualified, quantified, all that good stuff, and reproducible results. I also think that you’re doing something with your hands, unless you’re doing a technique that has other equipment or methods, but it’s an art form too. You bring to it your own creativity and your own approach physically.

Carole Freeman:              There’s got to be a lot of intuition as well

Dr Wrentmore:                 Absolutely.

Carole Freeman:              Being tuned in with the body.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know and respect and have had adjustments from chiropractors who don’t work that way. That they’re very much, “This is how you do it. This is the way it’s done. You have to follow this protocol this time every time.” I’ve had great results on me. I’ve tried a lot of different things. For my personal satisfaction, I really have to feel the heart of it or else I don’t enjoy doing it. I don’t want to spend my precious energy doing something I don’t really love. That’s the way I approach this. A lot of art.

Carole Freeman:              I appreciate that approach in a healthcare provider. Instead of like, “I’m going to follow this rote manual step by step, and I’m not going to treat each person as an individual,” I really appreciate that holistic approach. Treating the whole persona and they’re not just the bones of their spine. They’re everything that’s going on with them.

Dr Wrentmore:                 You look at the whole person. You’re not the shoulder that hurts that come into my office. I will address your shoulder obviously, but I’m going to look at you globally too. It’s like, “What’s affecting what else?” There isn’t any one part of us that is like a little island by itself. Everything works together. Do you know from your dietician and nutrition education that what you eat doesn’t just go to the stomach and do its thing? It’s like what you eat goes everywhere which is why it’s so important to have good nutrition because it fuels every cell, not just a few cells. I feel that way about even something like chiropractic.

I may be adjusting your spine, but I know that the ripple effect like dropping a pebble into a placid pond, it’s going to go out, and out, and out and it’s going to affect all of you. That’s how I like to approach it as well.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. Well, and I want to ask you about chiropractic philosophy in general. Before that I want to go back just a little bit for a little bit history lesson. A lot of people don’t even understand, they just think like chiropractic is some kind of an alternative healthcare provider that just … They don’t even know where it came from. People don’t realize that actually there were medical doctors back in, I don’t know, 1600s, 1800s where they started disagreeing on how they wanted to treat the human body, right? Then that branched off these different types of medicine then.

In the United States we have this predominantly allopathic paradigm where everybody thinks that’s what a doctor is but all these other types of doctors branch off from that. Like chiropractic, doctors of osteopathy-

Dr Wrentmore:                 Osteopathy.

Carole Freeman:              Osteopathy. There we go. Homeopathy, naturopathy-

Dr Wrentmore:                 Exactly.

Carole Freeman:              There’s probably some other ones.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I’m sure there are. I’m sure there are. Yeah, even farther back in ancient Greece, I think that’s when it started where with Western philosophy, where the body, the mind, the heart at one time was considered one whole being. Then with the development of Western thought it started to separate where you had mind and body as separate entities, that they were not one conjoined energy form that was embodied in a person. That you deal with the mind here. You deal with the body here. You deal with the emotions here. You deal with the spirit there. They don’t mingle. I think that was the start of allopathic philosophy. It is a philosophy just like natural or holistic philosophy. It’s a way of approaching the body and the health of the body.

I personally think that you cannot separate them. That you have one being and that includes your body, your mind, your spirit, your soul. Anything else you can compartmentalize as they’re just constructs of our mind. They’re not real. What you do in your physical life is going to show up in your emotional life, in your mental life, and your work life, your personal life, period. You have a life. Period. That’s my philosophy of the body, mind, spirit and all that. In 1895 is when chiropractic was founded by D.D. Palmer who was an interesting guy. He started out as a magnetic healer, like really alternative and that’s also when Western medicine in the States anyway started out also. MDs have their roots about the same time and they were very divergent paths to be sure but they started out the same.

To be fair, medicine in 1800s wasn’t all that great either. There was a lot of interesting facts.

Carole Freeman:              Well, you just give a little morphine syrup to your baby and that cures all its ills.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I’m saying. Yeah. It’s a matter of development and evolution I think for both fields. I think chiropractic has a little bit of a split personality in a way. There’re some doctors that feel you really have to follow the old paradigm that D.D. Palmer and his son B.J. Palmer also promoted chiropractic after his father. They didn’t get along too well. They both are instrumental in the field of chiropractic.

If you are very traditional and you really go with that philosophical point of view like DD Palmer had, you don’t do anything else but adjust the spine, period. If I get this wrong, fellow chiropractic colleagues, forgiveness is wonderful.

Carole Freeman:              Let’s know in the comments.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. It’s just how I understand it to be. The other personality of chiropractic is more science-based, similar to maybe medical profession as we know it in our western world where you really want to see evidence-based results and you want to make sure that the mode and function and how you practice chiropractic is you’re in line with modern science and what we’ve discovered today about health and wellbeing, physiology, all of that, neuropsychology, everything.

I’m happy not being one or the other only. I really love some of the traditional philosophies, that vitalistic way of looking at life. Energy within us is so powerful. It’s like we don’t have to think about, “Oh my gosh, let me make sure my heart is beating. Is my kidney functioning properly? Is my liver doing what it’s …”

We don’t have to do that. The catch term I guess would be innate intelligence is what a lot of traditional chiropractors might use. That innate intelligence is within us. It keeps us going. I really don’t think chiropractic is the cure all to everything, although I’ve seen some miracles. I really have. There has to be common sense with some of these two on both sides of the fence. I’m not like science only and if I can’t prove it in this double blind trial, it doesn’t exist. I don’t feel that way either, because I’ve had enough clinical evidence to show me otherwise. Having a little moderate point of view where you look at the beauty and the truth of both sides of the issue.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. I can really appreciate that. I’m sure it’s very effective then. Talk to us about then about the philosophy of chiropractic in general about how aligning the spine affects so many things in the body. Most people just think like well, if my back hurts I might go to the chiropractor. Probably a lot of people have experienced like that was out of alignment and they popped it and now I feel better. Talk to us more about what’s going on in the spine. Why does it affect the whole body?

Dr Wrentmore:                 Sure, okay. The central nervous system is house in our skull and in our spine. Bones comes around like this and the little bumpy parts you feel on your back that is part of your vertebra. It’s coming around like this and there’s a hole in the middle and that’s where you spinal cord goes through. It’s housed by your spine, by your spinal column. I call it the brainal cord. It is made up of the same material as your brain is made up. It’s part of your central nervous system.

When your vertebrae are not functioning properly, maybe they’re misaligned, maybe there’re soft tissue restrictions like tendons, ligaments, muscles, fascia. It’s not allowing that joint to function the way it’s supposed to function. That’s going to cause a restriction in that area. That means that that portion of your spinal cord where nerve roots come out and supplies your body to do its thing, because that’s the only way it works, is not going to be functioning as well either. It isn’t that you’re going to be paralyzed or you’re going to die, although if it’s severe enough both will happen.

Garden variety like my back hurts and I’m going to get an adjustment and then I’m going to feel better, that kind of thing we’re talking about. When you release that tension, the spinal cord tension also releases. Cerebral spinal fluid flows better. Your nerve impulses happen more freely. You have more freedom of movement. Your muscles can let go of their tension. Then, everything just feels better, works better, functions better, and you activate better health. It’s not always directly like, “Okay, I’m going to adjust your mid-back area where the nerve root goes to your heart. It doesn’t mean that by adjusting that now I’m going to do some magic on your heart.

I may, it may happen but that’s not really what I mean. I may adjust that part of your upper mid back and indirectly, things are going to work better and that may ultimately, improve your heart function. I have had patients, multiple patients who’ve come into my practice who had high blood pressure and after chiropractic care for … I guess the quickest I saw results was about a month but certainly, within about three months changes started to happen. This is anecdotal okay. We didn’t do a study but a lot of clinical information out there that is worth looking at and maybe doing a study sometime.

Carole Freeman:              Well, a clinical information like you’ve probably seen thousands of patients and it teaches you a lot about what helps get people better. I mean one of the difficult things about this double blind placebo control is that you have to find people that are almost exactly the same to run these trials on. You know that everybody is a unique person and there’s a lot of different things going on and so it makes it really hard to replicate Joe Schmo that comes in and you help his blood pressure then to find somebody else that’s exactly like that and then not treat him.

Dr Wrentmore:                 That’s why you need big numbers when you’re doing studies like that. You need a big cohort group. Otherwise, I mean, it’s interesting information and worth looking at, but it may not be like, wow, this is really significant. Although there are studies that are very significant about low back pain as you said. That’s like one of the number one things that bring people to a doctor or a chiropractor or some alternative care provider is low back pain. There have been studies that have been done that had been reproduced and had a huge cohort group that clearly determine that chiropractic care for low back pain is the treatment of choice because it’s non-invasive because sometimes you do need surgery but oh my God, I would want that to be my last option. I would venture to say most orthopedic surgeons would agree with me that you don’t want to just jump on it and do surgery. You want to make sure that you have less invasive procedures that you’ve tried that make sense.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah, yeah. Well, you mentioned low back pain as being a valid issue, disease. Not really a disease. Issue …

Dr Wrentmore:                 Condition.

Carole Freeman:              Condition, there we go that chiropractic is great for. What are some other things that you see clinically that are maybe the top five or ten things that you’re like, oh yeah, that gets a lot better with chiropractic.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Migraine, headaches.

Carole Freeman:              Okay.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Headaches in general. Neck pain, mid-back pain low back pain, obviously, shoulder issues, knee, hip, all of that, especially we are a very active society now. Even as we get older people are doing more, they’re doing sports, they’re running, they’re jogging, they’re hiking, they’re biking, especially around here. Oh my goodness, this is like outdoor world.

There’s a lot that can wrong. I mean, a lot can go right, but sometimes weekend warrior stuff or you have an injury or something happens. Things like that, chiropractic helps very well. It depends on the chiropractor also, how you practice.

Carole Freeman:              Do you see children and infants in practice?

Dr Wrentmore:                 I do.

Carole Freeman:              I’ve heard some stories from people that have had some pretty amazing results with very young babies. Have you seen that? Tell us about some other things that …

Dr Wrentmore:                 Oh my gosh.

Carole Freeman:              With little babies.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I was very lucky, blessed, fortunate, to have in my practice so far four women who got pregnant during care that I took care of them throughout their whole pregnancy and was able to assist at the birth of their children.

Carole Freeman:              Oh wow.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I know. It was so amazing. I can’t even put into words what that was like. I was also fortunate enough to adjust their baby within one or two hours of their birth and take care of the mom. When I say adjust that newborn, I’m not talking popping, snapping, cracking …

Carole Freeman:              Yeah, the stereotypical like …

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. I’m talking with my little pinky fingers just giving very, very gentle light pressure to help align their neck. When a baby is born, it is not a graceful gentle process. Those of us who’ve given birth and we’re awake to see it, it is not for sissies.

When that baby comes through the birth canal if you have natural deliver like that, there’s a lot of twisting and torqueing to get through because it’s a small space that baby has to get through, which is why the cranial bones aren’t fused until later. We can talk about how they don’t actually fuse all the way either.

It’s a harsh process in some ways and they’re very resilient and they heal quickly. All the different contortions resolve quickly, but with that very gentle chiropractic adjustment at that young age, it’s like phenomenal, the way it can change the length of time, how they nurse, especially if there’s any issues of colic or any of the common things that happens with newborns really makes a difference. As far as infants I’ve had parents ready to pull the hair coming in with the baby who is so fussy.

Infant adjusting is very gentle. It’s like with fingers. We’re not talking grabbing their heads or anything like that. I’m amazed that the images people have when they hear that I adjust babies are … It’s like no, no, we don’t do that. I might use just my pinkies or just my index finger or just like this to very, very gently realign. Just with one touch in the right place at the right time. I’ve had babies who are literally like almost climbing out of their mommy’s arms crying and I do like this, they just stop. They’re like … and they’re laughing.

Carole Freeman:              Finally somebody fixed that spot that was hurting my back.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yes. The mom is ready to cry tears of joy because I don’t know how fussy your baby was but oh my gosh.

Carole Freeman:              As long as I was holding him, he didn’t cry at all.

Dr Wrentmore:                 You are very fortune.

Carole Freeman:              Well, I mean, I had to hold him all the time.

Dr Wrentmore:                 If the baby is uncomfortable for whatever reason and you can’t figure out what it is and it’s something that can be easily remedied and it’s noninvasive, it’s gentle, it’s safe, it’s like gosh, why not, wouldn’t you want to?

Carole Freeman:              Well, and those were the stories that I heard then recently were maybe it’s a first baby or their second baby that it is just screaming and crying and won’t sleep through the night and they’re ready to pull their hair out and like you said, just that really gentle adjustment and it’s just life changing for the parents, but I can imagine for the baby too as well. Because there’s a reason they’re crying and fussing and when you’re going to relieve that, they just feel so much better. That’s one of my favorite applications of chiropractic is. Because a lot of moms suffer with postpartum depression when their baby won’t sleep and it’s frustrating as mom because it makes you feel like what am I doing wrong, I’m not a good mom.

Dr Wrentmore:                 The sleep deprivation alone is enough and if your baby can relax more, rest more, sleep more, that’s like paradise. I speak from experience. My baby did not sleep well. I was very glad I knew what to do to help. Even with the best of help sometimes your baby could be very fussy and have issues that you can’t discern right away and they can’t tell you. You have to sometimes try different things to see what works for them.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. I imagine it’s easier to treat somebody else’s child because you’re not as biased as with your own.

Dr Wrentmore:                 It’s true, it’s very true. That’s why they say don’t treat your own family. Although I do in emergencies, but it is a lit bit more challenging, I think, for all kinds of reasons. I guess I’ve treated from an hour old and my oldest patient ever was 90, a little more than 90. I could never quite tell. I know it was 90 or above. They wouldn’t quite say how much above.

Carole Freeman:              Okay. Well, really cool stories. Let’s see. Now, I want to know about how did you get on this keto lifestyle because you’ve been doing … You shared with me that since the ’90s. It wasn’t even very well …

Dr Wrentmore:                 It wasn’t on the radar. It wasn’t like mainstream yet when I find out about it. I was in chiropractic school and this was in, I guess, 1991, 1992 and one of my professors was doing the Atkins diet. That was the big thing back then I guess. He said that he was eating all this bacon, all these cheese and fats. At that point I was about to like jaw drop because I thought, “oh my God, you’re going to have a heart attack.”

Carole Freeman:              You’re going to drop dead in a minute here.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I’m going to have to do CPR on you while we’re in class.

Carole Freeman:              Was his primary motivation weight loss because that’s pretty much only reason why people did Atkins back then.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. It was weight loss and he was pre-diabetic or like borderline diabetic. He had done like low fat, high carb and that didn’t work for him. He tried all different kinds of diets and there’re so many fad diets that have been around since I don’t know when. None of them worked for him or he might have lost some weight but then yoyo back.

Then he found out about very low carbohydrate, high fat way of eating and Atkins was the most well-known doctor doing it at the time. He tried it and it worked for him. He lost over 100 pounds.

Carole Freeman:              Oh wow. Did you see that or was it he already had lost them?

Dr Wrentmore:                 I saw him in process. He’d already lost 100 pounds. I was like, wow. He still have to lose about, I think at the time, maybe 50 more pounds to go, which he did in the course of my knowing him at the time as a student. I was so intrigued because I was indoctrinated that that would kill you. At the time it was eating not refined carbohydrates certainly, but lots of whole grains, legumes and lots of vegetables. I guess like wholegrain breads, pastas, things like that were all good too back then and very low fat. Low fat and no fat almost and to limit your cholesterol intake, all the things that have been part of that food pyramid that we’ve had for way too long.

It never agreed with me but I ignored it all because that’s what was healthy. That’s what you were supposed to do. I was doing everything right but I never felt quite right. I never had a weight issue but I wanted it to be for my health and wellbeing and longevity. I didn’t want to grow old and be feeble. I wanted to grow old and be spry, doing jumping jacks at 90.

I really started to research and I found out that for decades this had been a way of eating to help with some health conditions. We had talked before about epilepsy. That this has been around since, like you said, the ’20s, right?

Carole Freeman:              Yeah, ’20s or ’30s, yeah.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. I think it’s the ’20s. They started doing a B9 ketogenic diet for epilepsy.

Carole Freeman:              Unfortunately, back then they didn’t know about bad fats and good fats so they were feeding people a lot of industrial seed oils like corn oils and things like that. We won’t talk about that.

Dr Wrentmore:                 That could take a whole another interview. I started researching some of this and I looked at the results, what Dr. Atkins was doing. He was an MD and I believe he’s a cardiologist. Huge mountains of information even in the ’60s that not even about the epilepsy, but around that time like ’50s and ’60s there was a huge push with the sugar industries to promote their product obviously.

Carole Freeman:              Did you watch the documentary called Sugar Coated?

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yes.

Carole Freeman:              It’s out on Netflix.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah, I’ve seen that. I highly recommend it There were really good studies that showed that a high-fat diet and even high cholesterol was not an indicator of cardiovascular disease or heart attacks or atherosclerosis or any of things that we were frightened about. They had two sets of data, like what do you go with. Well, a lot of money from that sugar industry which also supply the refined foods industry. I mean, go to your grocery store and if you don’t stay on the perimeter if your grocery store, almost everything in the middle is going to have sugar in it. That industry funded so much of that research. When your money is coming from this industry, I’m not saying that they were out not lying but it’s really hard to not have that bias, I would think.

The research that talked about ketogenic diets being beneficial and having great benefits and even the studies that showed epilepsy being almost completely neutralized by ketogenic diet where they did not need medication anymore and they had no more seizures in so many of the patients. That went by the wayside too for a time period because there were drugs that were developed to help with seizures, but they always have side effects. I’m so happy now that ketogenic way of eating is popular again. I’ve been calling from the wilderness since the ’90s about this.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah, it’s really too bad that Dr. Atkins’ timing was unfortunate because he was doing his work, he was working with people clinically and he was seeing these health transformations. He was up against this big lobbying effort that then started brainwashing and so telling us that fat was bad.

People were really afraid and I’ve read several versions of his books. His first book was all about butter and bacon, but then he even caved to some of that pressure. You can find versions of his book that say that you should margarine because that was supposed to be healthier. It was cholesterol free, not as much focus on these traditional fats, unfortunately.

Then, it very quickly evolved, a lot of people following Atkins diet then because they were afraid of fat was that they end up having a higher protein diet. That’s one of the biggest differences between what people think of as traditional Atkins diet and a ketogenic diet is the way most people eat an Atkins diet is that it’s much higher in protein, protein is a free for all whereas on a ketogenic diet, you need to moderate protein and maybe even keep it on the lower side. Then you got to eat a lot of fat to make up for that. Atkins …

Dr Wrentmore:                 Fat burns fat. It does.

Carole Freeman:              Atkins diet is well, only keeps carbohydrates really low the first couple of weeks and then it allows you some higher amounts there. An Atkins diet may or may not be ketogenic and you can do an Atkins style ketogenic fat. There are some overlap but they’re not necessarily exactly the same.

Dr Wrentmore:                 A lot of variations on the approach. The thing about protein is very true, you think protein, it has no sugar but if you eat too much protein it gets converted to sugar and what gets converted to sugar either those into a fat metabolic pathway or that storage pathway. If you have too much sugar in your system, you’re either going to burn it up, glucose, you’re going to burn it up or you’re going to store it, and stored makes you fat.

Carole Freeman:              There’s a lot of controversy about it takes 300 grams of proteins to cause gluconeogenesis, which you’re talking about. It’s very clear, especially people that are insulin-resistant that too much protein, especially at one meal or even at one meal can cause rise in insulin and whenever you hear a rise of insulin you’re going to decrease in ketosis. I’ve seen especially people that were pre-diabetic or they were type two diabetic when they started a ketogenic diet. They tend to be very sensitive to approaching somewhere around 30 or so grams per meals, tends to be about the max tolerance and doesn’t affect ketosis.

Dr Wrentmore:                 You have to also think about your activity level. Are you an elite athlete or a couch potato or something in between the two. You’re going to have to use some common sense. I mean you can’t just put the food in, put the food in, put the food in do nothing and expect to lose weight. I mean, that’s not going to happen quite that way.

Although, having said that, I have to say eating in a way that is ketogenic, you don’t get so hungry. The satisfaction, the satiety that you feel is so much greater than when you are on a high-carb way of eating that for me personally, sometimes I have to make myself each more because I’m just not hungry, but I know I’m going to have a really busy day or I’m going to have to push real hard so I will eat a little bit more. Everybody has a different carbohydrate tolerance. In my family, my husband and my son, they can eat just the teeniest bit of carbohydrate and it will put weight on them.

I’m sorry because carbohydrates are pretty fun to eat, but not good for you if you can’t tolerate it and you become carbohydrate intolerant which is like insulin intolerant works out the same way. For me, I have to eat a little bit more carbohydrate than most people on a ketogenic diet because of my metabolism. If I don’t, I shake apart. I need a little bit more.

You really have to pay attention to your own body and your own needs but generally speaking, I stay around 50 to 60 grams of carbs a day if I can, which is a too bad for me.

Carole Freeman:              That’s still probably a quarter of what most people in the United States are eating..

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. For my husband, he needs to stay 25 or below to keep the weight down.

Carole Freeman:              Okay.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I can eat twice as many carbs which I try not do at home. I do it when I’m away.

Carole Freeman:              That’s a good feeling dynamics, support each other and …

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yes, absolutely.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. That illustrates a point that a lot of people complain of like, well, my husband can eat whatever he wants. It’s usually not the wife that gets to eat what they really want. For some reason it’s usually the husband, but we’re all unique individuals. We got to figure out what works for us and what makes us feel the best.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yes, absolutely.

Carole Freeman:              Well, in closing, I have a question for you.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Sure.

Carole Freeman:              If you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you eat?

Dr Wrentmore:                 You know what, I ate it last night.

Carole Freeman:              Okay, okay.

Dr Wrentmore:                 I worked yesterday and I came home and my husband had so much of it already done, it was like love this man. It’s marinated beef, Korean style kind of like teriyaki but without the sugar in the teriyaki sauce. You don’t need the sugar. Absolutely, you don’t need the sugar. Grilled and lots of vegetables. I did spinach Korean style which is just like wilted. It’s not boiled until it’s mush and a cucumber salad, which is also just delicious in flavor like Korean style and little steamed rice. I got to tell you, I discovered something new about starch rice. I mean I’m Korean, I have to have rice.

You can do it in a way that makes it carbohydrate or starch resistant, starch. I don’t know if you’ve heard about this. It’s the way you cook the rice.

Carole Freeman:              You cook it, refrigerate it.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah. You have to cook it with fat. Fat.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah.

Dr Wrentmore:                 For every half cup of rice you need a lipid like sometimes we use coconut oil, sometimes avocado oil because there’s no flavoring really with avocado oil so it doesn’t taste like coconut rice, which is great though if you’re having Thai food or Indian food. Half cup rice, teaspoon of oil, cook it like normal and then you have to refrigerate it about 12 hours. You can reheat it and it doesn’t affect the efficacy of that starch reduction. That’s how we cook rice now.

Carole Freeman:              Okay.

Dr Wrentmore:                 That would be my last meal.

Carole Freeman:              Wow.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yummy Korean meal.

Carole Freeman:              You just had it last night. That’s awesome.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Just had it last night.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah. Well, that’s really, really cool. Well, I just wanted to add one little bit too that the research does show that people of Asian lineage, that you have more genes that code for carbohydrate digestion.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yes.

Carole Freeman:              You’re the first person I’ve interviewed that follow the ketogenic diet. I’m really curious then to see you do … You have reported that your carb tolerance is higher and that you feel better on that.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah, I do.

Carole Freeman:              It could be your gene expression.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Yeah, it might be.

Carole Freeman:              Yeah, that’s really cool. Thank you so much.

Dr Wrentmore:                 The amount of rice I eat is a lot smaller than I used to growing up, but girls got to have her rice.

Carole Freeman:              Well, thank you so much, Dr. Paula, for being here and sharing your story with us. If you like this video, give us a thumps up and subscribe, if you want to see more. Thank for watching. Bye.

Dr Wrentmore:                 Bye.

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