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Donese Worden, N.M.D., is an award-winning physician and global health educator who expertly and compassionately bridges the worlds of conventional allopathic and advanced alternative medicine. As a naturopathic medical doctor, she is licensed in administering both pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals. Her passion is in helping people interpret medical science so they can take charge of their health and make informed decisions.
Hey, welcome everyone to another episode of Keto Chat. I am your host Carole Freeman, certified nutritionist. I am here today with the one, the only Dr. Worden and let me just pull up her bio, because she’s a pretty amazing person.
Donese Worden, NMD, is an award winning physician, global health educator who expertly and compassionately bridges the worlds of conventional, allopathic and advanced alternative medicine. As an naturopathic medical doctor she is licensed in administrating both pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals. Her passion is in helping people interpret medical science so they can take charge of their health and make informed decisions.
Welcome, welcome, welcome, Dr. Worden.
Thank you, thank you Carole.
Where are you joining us from?
I’m in Arizona right now.
Yesterday it was 112 or 13, today’s a 102 so we’re like loving it.
Oh my gosh, it’s like sweater weather there now, right?
On the cruise a couple of months ago, I was joking about the people on the cruise that were from Arizona, we could recognize them because you guys would be the ones wearing sweaters by the pool.
Right, exactly at 70 degrees we’re literally shivering.
Yeah, well wonderful, I’m so excited to connect with you and ask you some questions. Just to start with, I’m curious what’s your story of how you got into medicine?
Long story, but really my son at five years old was getting college credit and I’d always been interested in medicine. At that time I was working in nutrition with some professional athletes and competitors so I’d always been into nutrition and I knew that there was, when I found out that there was a school that allowed me to be learning the traditional side alongside and be licensed in the alternative, I said that makes sense to me. As I was sitting there outside of his door at college at five years old, I said I might as well go back too. It’s great.
Wait, a five year old in college.
Tell me about this.
Getting college credit, yeah. There was a program for gifted children at ASU and he was enrolled into that program and was taking college credits. I mean [crosstalk 00:02:36]-
Oh my gosh.
… flying planes and it’s a long story, but a great story.
Oh my gosh, proud mama. What was it, I mean this is a total tangent here but I’m so curious. What was it like, I mean obviously boy genius right. What was it like?
He was social adapted, you know a lot of kids that are that bright aren’t socially, but he was everybody’s favorite bud. My friends wanted to hang out with him, he was just a fun kid, loved everything, was good at everything, and just super, super smart. I didn’t want him to be bored, but we put him back into regular school about 4th grade, he said mom I want to go to regular school instead of sitting outside with the heads of the departments at ASU learning physics. I mean, [crosstalk 00:03:17], going to be interesting and it’s been an interesting ride with him, but yeah …
That’s really cool, so your child inspired you to …
Child inspired me to go back to school, I had my Master’s degree and like I said was working in nutrition, I’d been in the television business, I’d done quite a few things, but my mother was the ultimate nature path without knowing it. I mean she was making us eat yogurt and would read everything out there and literally she was a nature path before we knew what that was.
Okay. Where did you go get your naturopathic degree?
In Tempe, Arizona. One of the four accredited schools. Actually there’s five now, we’ve got Canada, but one of the four accredited schools.
Okay. I’m curious then, what’s your son up to now?
He’s doing quite a few things, he’s actually kind of an entrepreneur and starting his own business and doing a clothesline and a logo in the hemp community, which is interesting. Because I’m sitting on the fence on that darn thing, but he’s not. He likes the health properties of it. So, yeah.
Cool, well, I’m sure he’s just got a mind of doing a bunch of different things and I’m sure …
Yes, he’s enjoying that right now, we’ll see what he jumps to next.
That’s really cool. Well thank you for indulging me on [crosstalk 00:04:42] curiosity too.
Well, okay. You got into medicine that way and then what was the journey like of getting your degree and then did you quickly have a specialty or passion as you went through school.
Yeah, my passion has always been how people say what’s your specialty and I say health. I don’t care if a patient’s coming in for heart disease or diabetes or cancer, whatever it is, it’s individualized medicine. Look at that patient, look at their mind, body, soul, look at their physical, figure out what they need and be a good diagnostician. It’s not about the disease, it’s not about what they have, it’s about what they need.
Okay. It sounds like, my understanding to of naturopathic medicine is what is the underlying root of this and how can we address and help the body healed itself.
Right, exactly. Trying to find the root of the problem first of all. What’s really causing those symptoms. And then I will say that many of the natural practitioners tend to do the same thing as allopath. Instead of giving them a drug, they’re going to give them a whole bunch of nutraceuticals or things to do and covering up symptoms even though there’s less side effects and maybe more natural, you’re still not getting to the root of the problem of why are they having to take that supplement or why that drug.
I want to know why they have those symptoms and that diagnostic pieces you have to spend some time on it.
Okay. Along those lines then what kind of tests are you running routinely for people to kind of look for those things?
Well, it depends on what their symptoms are and who they are. There’s some unique tests along the line of ketogenic, I know that we’re talking about that today, and maybe let me back up just a little bit and say how I kind of got started into that.
I work, I designed and conduct some clinical research with some major institutions, so I’ve been in the research side of this as well. And oncology kept coming at me and how could it not, when about one in two people are going to have it, my patients and bringing them in and I said, I don’t want to specialize in this, well it kept coming and kept coming and sometimes you hear the door knock and say okay. Started looking into what are the therapies and what are the metabolic cancer theory made sense to me. Thomas Seyfried’s book, metabolic cancer and Travis Christofferson’s book, Tripping over the Truth. Started reading that years ago and said okay this makes sense to me, whether we’re talking about weight loss, diabetes, neurological disease, or cancer. Doesn’t matter again, it’s about what is that patient needs, and that body need.
I immediately latched myself into Travis Christofferson and said, okay I want to meet Dr. [Cho 00:07:24], with three [bromoco pyruvate 00:07:24], Dr. Seyfried, Dominic D’Agostino. So Travis was kind of my guy that introduced me to everybody and now all of those are my colleagues and friends. I can call them my friends. And I’m on a continual basis in with all of those in talking to them about their research and what they have going on and how I can help them either with the message or collaboration to bring all of this forward.
Back to your question about what kinds of tests, it really does depend on what patient is coming in. I’m not about let’s spend thousands of dollars on everybody. If they have that expendable income, I’ve got all kinds of things we can look at, but I want to look at them as they appropriately need.
Some interesting ones I think that I run more often now, whether again kind of cancer, weight loss, neurological, if we’re down that metabolic or ketogenic deal is looking at the MTHFR gene and that relation gene that makes a big difference. If we have that, it needs to be addressed.
Looking at leptin which is a hormone that tells the body to store fat or don’t store fat. Some of the people that are doing ketogenic diets are doing everything right, they’re not really stressing out to dump the sugar, there’s no other reason, I’ll look and I’ll see that leptin gene. That needs to be addressed to. And that explains some things.
Apo-E, looking at that. The genetics side of them. Trying to see genetically what’s their pattern. Their ratio of natural genetic ratio of carb verus protein, this of that. That way we can tweak just a little bit on whatever diet that they’re doing.
See what else. Micro-nutrient testing. Looking at the white blood cells to see are there any deficiencies. Amino acids, proteins, vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids looking for true deficiencies. Not what’s floating in the blood, but what’s not getting inside those white blood cells.
Let’s see. Lepid profiles. And it’s not just looking at their cholesterol. We want to break down the different cholesterols. Some are addressed by niacin only. And so looking at their lepid, looking at their diabetic patterns, their insulin, not just glucose but really looking at their insulin sensitivity. Those kinds of things.
I look at the patient in front of me, what do they really need. What do I think they need at this moment. Where are they struggling. Those are just a few. I do a lot of hormone testing. And hormones, and girl you know this, those hormones are imbalanced it can be very difficult for, especially weight loss for them to make some changes. We need to balance those hormones.
The micro-biome. You know being a naturopath we’ve always said health begins in the gut, you have to address that micro-flora, you must. That affects everything from the immune system to neurotransmitters to all of it. Look very heavily there, if they have upped some systems that I look for and it looks like they’re toxic, I’m going to look for heavy metals. I’m going to do urine challenges and see do they have toxins and solvents and those kinds of things onboard, because if they’re high in those the body won’t let go of that fat. It won’t let go of that last little bit, because it’s self protective. The body knows that it’s storing those toxins in that fat. So it’s not going to let go, until you get rid of those toxins.
Those are a few.
Okay. Just a few, just the tip of the iceberg, yeah. Well it sounds like you really enjoy the puzzle of figuring out, looking at all this together as a whole picture and not just …
I like the diagnostic.
If one thing means this and the one thing means that.
That’s right. Lot of little rabbit trails and I really like that.
Carole, one I didn’t mention that the liver. And that’s big. Non alcoholic fatty liver, a disease is going to be … It’s climbing faster than heart disease and cancer right now. And I’m seeing healthy patients that have fatty liver disease and I did a clinical kind of a I’ll say in-house clinical. I had a device called a FibroScan. And besides biopsy that is the way to look at does the patient have a fatty liver is it fibrotic, which is kind of scarring, and has it turned into cirrhosis which is really in trouble.
I had that and was surprising, I put many, many patients through, young, fit, healthy, no reason to think they had liver issues and they did. Found a homeopathic injection that’s amazing that is reversing and pushing that cirrhosis and fibrosis back to normal levels in a quick time. We’re going to be publishing that, working on that. But that right there, when we’re talking about weight loss, we’re talking about ketosis, I think that’s a miss piece. I think we’re forgetting to look at that liver because some patients until I addressed that liver we couldn’t get where we needed to go.
Yeah, that is a big piece of it too and myself I’ve only helped people with, I’m a nutritionist I can’t do all the stuff that you do-
That’s a huge piece.
We’ll do things like warm compress or if they’re willing to go so far as a caster oil pack which most people are like, that’s too far, something like that simple. But yeah it really can be important to address to get optimal results.
And people say, no my liver’s fine. My doctor said it was fine. Well liver enzymes on a blood test is the only way we really look at it, just generally. But until the liver’s in trouble, it won’t show those outside of normal range and once they’re outside of normal range, you’ve lost about 50% of your function. That’s a little late.
The way we’re looking at it is before it gets to that point. Or we’re finding it when they’re in trouble and amazing that something natural can start helping them.
Is it kind of an ultrasound type machine that you could …
The FribroScan is a sheer wave and it’s been trialed, clinical, over 2,000 studies, clinically trialed right next to biopsies, Mayo, most Mayo’s have it. John’s Hopkins, major institutions, but they’re using it pretty much for looking at what pharmaceuticals are being developed for this liver issue that we’re seeing progressing in our populations. So they’re using it because you can’t do a biopsy on somebody all the time.
But for me, I was looking at it in a wellness place. What can we do, what can we find, and what can we do right now with diet and lifestyle. By the way ketogenic diet started moving those markers in the right direction. It wasn’t as fast as the injectables, these homeopathic injectables, but it was moving it in the right direction.
Yeah. Well, I’m so glad you’re sharing this too, because so many of the people that I talk to will say, oh I’m healthy, but I just want to lose weight and it’s things like that, the scan that can actually show people that you’re not as healthy as you think you are.
That’s right. And maybe that weight is not coming off the way that it used to or the way that it should, they think they’re doing everything right and it’s not coming off. Another simple test that I do a lot of for almost everyone that comes in is food sensitivity testing. It is controversial because we’re not saying it’s a food allergy, it’s foods that cause inflammation. But I will say, in my practice for thousands of patients, this has been one of the most beneficial tests that I run. Take the patient’s blood, look at what foods cause inflammation because they can go on a ketogenic diet but if some of those foods are high sensitivities for them and they’re causing inflammation, that’s why it can’t work like it’s supposed to. That’s a test I do almost every patient.
What we put in everyday, as you know, being a nutritionist very important. We know the macros, the micros, we know the nutrition that is needed, but a broccoli if that’s causing inflammation in you, that’s no longer healthy.
Very important test to do.
And so I just want to clarify, it sounds like the primary groups that you’re working with a ketogenic diet on are cancer and then weight loss, or metabolic …
Metabolic, diabetes, yeah, all of it, or just people that say I’m ready to try something new. When the body kind of likes a shake up once in a while. It does. When they’re ready or they’ve heard about the ketogenic and they just want to try it and I work with professional athletes, they want to try it, they want more energy, they want their brain to function better.
Or I have patients that are concerned they’ve got family history and the genetics, when I run it, for Alzheimer, for dementia. Why not start working on that right now. Preventing it before those neuro fibular [inaudible 00:16:08] start wrapping around.
Nice. You mentioned that one of the big obstacles people have to losing weight is their liver function, the food allergy testing, what are some other things, the biggest obstacles you see to people getting the weight loss that they want a keto diet.
Stress. And you know this, doing you hypnosis and I listen, it’s fantastic, it’s a big piece. Because you can be perfect on your ketogenic diet, you can have your keto mojo, your whatever you’re doing to test, you can look at these things and say why am I not getting there but when there is stress the body is going to be dumping sugar, it’s going to dump glucose. We’re never completely out of sugar. We can’t be, so the body will find it, it will dump it when they’re under stress and therefore they’re going to have a struggle getting into ketosis.
I do a lot with the mind body. My husband works with, like Dr. Joe Dispenza, and Greg Braden, and Neil [inaudible 00:17:09], people that are teaching meditation, people that are teaching these things about stress reduction and that’s a huge piece left out of medicine.
For me, that’s always a piece no matter what they’re coming in for, but I think we really have to address that more, because body’s going to dump that glucose one way or another, especially if we’re in stress.
Yeah. And how about sleep, I’m sure you’re working a lot on that too.
Very much. And that’s part of that stress. It’s usually mind or their hormones. Their hormones can be, there’s cortisols, reversed their AM and PM, which is a hormone. You have to look at the hormones, you have to look at the reason why they’re not sleeping, if it’s busy mind, they can’t shut it off, we do really well with music. Certain types of music that has frequencies in it that brain waves can match or in train and just calm that brain wave down and get them to sleep. I love that, we’re not taking a pill. They’re listening to that certain type of music and get them to sleep.
If they’re waking up during the night, we’ve got to see is it having to use the restroom, is it … You know, what’s the problem.
And one that’s kind of interesting is people say well I wake up at night, I don’t sleep through the night, I say well what time are you waking up and I don’t know if you’d address those Chinese medicine circles and times on your shows, but if they’re between one and three or three and four, it really depends on their liver, it depends on their lung channels and in that case, I find it to be more emotional. If they have unresolved anger or grief, they’re going to be waking up during those times during the night, no matter how many sleep aides and how much they take, our body is strong and it’s going to break through any medicine or melatonin or anything because that subconscious is still stirring, I’m still mad about, or I’m still grieving about.
We have to work on that during their waking hours.
I tend to see the three o’clock wakening which is the liver, from what I understand.
Well, it’s on the cusp of liver and lung. It’s kind of the grief, anger which comes together a lot. And most people, most patients when you talk to them and you just say, listen if you’d have told me the time is anywhere between 11 and 5, it’s random, it comes and goes. That’s probably how much water they drank, dehydration all that. But when they give me an exact time, I say there’s no other explanation. I mean we could get into cortisol this and that, but it wouldn’t be that exact.
As soon as you just bring it up, and I say well we have to have this conversation, I just show them the clock and point to it, most start crying or saying I know exactly what it is. And I say, okay. You’ve been stuffing it during your day, you’re still upset about it during your sleep and you’re not going to sleep until you deal with it during the day. And let it go. Learn how to let it go.
Is the lung kind of, in Chinese medicine, related to-
Lung is grief.
Oh, grief okay.
Lung is grief and liver is anger.
Thousands of years that’s been around and you know what, it still proves through today.
I don’t, you know I went to a school that taught Chinese medicine, I didn’t really get into it. It was always one of those things where I’d go get an acupuncture session and they’d say oh does this hurt, right after what I told them was going on, I’m like how did you know that that part hurts on me. I don’t know how it works and then I taught a nutrition classes actually at a school in Portland where integrated certification in both nutrition and Chinese nutrition.
So it was really cool sitting in on the classes as my co-teacher was teaching them about pulse and tongue diagnosis and when I sit in a supervised clinic which again it’s like logically in our western trained mind, that’s just hooey, [crosstalk 00:21:02] that’s just woo-woo stuff that doesn’t really work. But I would listen with my western trained ears about the complaints that the person was having and I would well that’s this and this, and then we’d compare at the end, the other instructor that was doing it from the Chinese perspective and she would say, did their tongue look like this, did they look at this, and they’d say yes. And so I was like, all right, I don’t know how it works, but obviously it works.
Well, we’re starting to know a little bit more. There are different pathways. There are some things in the human body that are so fast you can’t explain it by the nervous system. It’s too fast, we’re calling it the living matrix. We know that those pathways, those meridians that the Chinese medicine has taught us for thousands of years, there is a different communication system in the body. That’s one of my favorite lectures.
Some we know quite a bit about, we’re learning more about frequency medicine and others we don’t. But an interesting study that you’ll find for those that are still saying I’m still on the fence about all that, you’ll love this one, is that the powers that be said okay, if acupuncture works tell us with vision where you would put a needle. And so an acupuncturist said it would be in the bladder meridian and it would be on the foot. Now that’s about as far away from the brain as you can get. Right. Which that’s where in the back the occiput in the back of the head, that’s where the vision area is for the body and the brain.
The powers that be said so you’re telling me, stick a needle in the foot and it should light up in a proper cortices or the brain. Well, it did. As soon as they put the needle, it lit it up, but then what’s interesting is what was faster than the acupuncture needle was light, like with cold lasers and I use lasers a lot in those acupuncture meridians or on those spots. Light was faster and then what was even faster was sound. Sono-puncture so that’s the music thing.
I love all of this frequency and we’re, the ketogenic metabolic guys are kind of, they like that because they kind of get it that we don’t need to stay in these same patterns of diets and exercise and lifestyle that we have, there’s a lot more to us and they’re a lot more open.
Yeah. Oh my gosh. All that stuff is like, we have a thousand different topics we could talk about on future [crosstalk 00:23:21]-
I love it. All right, so kind of switching gears or totally switching gears is what about exercise on a ketogenic diet.
Right. Again, I think it’s individualized. What does that patient need. Just like with cancer patients, we know if they were couch potatoes they need to get up and move. That’s what will make a difference. If they were extreme athletes they need to calm it down because we’re creating too many free radicals. You have to take that patient where they’re at, what they’re willing to do, and look at it. Yes, do the ratio of how much they’re eating and how many calories that they’re burning, but you know I think it’s far beyond that at this point. They’ve got to be willing to do it and we’ve got to say what is the best for them. If they’re the stress ball that loves to do over exercise, over do everything and they think more is better, the hardest thing for them to say, go do a yoga class. That’s if you can quiet your brain.
And then it’s like can I do hot yoga.
Right. And then they say hot yoga, and I go no, your adrenal glands are done, they’re fried. They’re saying stop running from that bear, stop it, now let’s get the body in tune. You can do strength training, those poses are tough. And I tell them, you want to see the toughest exercise out there you get into the advanced yoga classes, that’s tough. But what do they want to do, they want to jump in and get on that treadmill 100 miles an hour.
I really have to look at what do they need, what are they used to, and really it’s a behavior change. Just like when you change your nutrition, you have to change that exercise routine.
I’m a big fan of interval training, short periods, when you’re where you want to be you don’t have to do that much, but we know that those short periods are better than an hour on the treadmill. We know that interval pushing fast, the fast slow, fast slow is very good for most people and even people that are out of shape, they can get on a bike and start a little bit of interval training. I’m a big fan of that and yoga.
Oh, wonderful. All right, so then another commonly asked question on keto is what about supplements, what do I need? Do I need a thousand supplements?
Right. I’m never a fan of a thousand supplements. There are basics that everybody needs and those of us that have been working with keto for a while, we know that it’s beginning. Before we know what you know now, what you’re putting people on through your program and watching all of this but a lot of them are doing it on their own and they’re getting leg cramps. They’re getting all these things. They’re mineral deficient because they’re not getting enough vegetables. They’re following this pattern but they’re not quite getting it.
I do, most people that are on a ketogenic diet, I’ll put them on a multi-vitamin that will especially the minerals. That’s the piece. It’s tough on keto to do that. You can do it, but you have to really know what you’re doing. So minerals, fish oil, omega 3s, good ones that we know get absorbed. Pro-biotic for that micro-flora. And then the rest honestly, would be that individual patient, what do they need, do they have inflammation going on. While we’re trying to figure out why they have the inflammation is it a food they’re putting in, is it a medication, is it something else, is it a toxin. Why do they have that. They need to be on an anti-inflammatory. Because now they’re putting themselves at risk, because we can cause a little bit thick, sticky blood.
Enzymes are a big piece of what I use, both digestive and systemic enzymes. Many times I’ll use enzymes with ketogenic diet. But the basic, if I could only give them one thing, it would probably be minerals.
Okay. Speaking of supplements, you have a pretty robust line yourself. Tell us about your, a line you’ve developed, I don’t know much about it, so tell me about your supplements.
Well, I’ve helped many companies and others develop lines and done formulations, some I’ve been, most I can’t talk about because I’m the behind the scenes that helped them put together their line. Well, because I work in the industry and I know the manufacturers, I know the raw materials, I’ll say 98%, my guess and estimation is 98% of what’s on the shelf out there is inferior quality at best and [crosstalk 00:27:55] at worst.
I’ve got 400 different products and I’m not loyal to one company, I want the best product for what I’m looking at. It’s not just about price, it’s about I make sure I’ve got a certificate of analysis of anything that’s on my shelf. That’s my responsibility. If I’m using this as medicine, I want to make sure it has in it what it says it has, and just as important is it doesn’t have the toxins in it that we continually see in raw materials.
And just saying, oh I’ve got a good company and I check them once in a while is not good enough. The next batch of raw material that comes in could be absolutely tainted. You have to look at every batch. I spend a lot of time really analyzing anything that I use in my practice.
I do, I’ve got a private label on a couple of products just from a company that I truly trust, but there’s some good physician lines and other lines out there that are good, but even physician lines you have to watch, because they don’t know. Physicians aren’t asking these question. I’m out there training them, trying to with my continuing medical education lectures, and saying it’s your responsibility, if you’re using this in your practice that you need to make sure that the quality is what it should be for your patients.
Oh, that is fantastic and most people, gosh, just talking to somebody yesterday about this, how people have the misconception in our country, I mean it’s good and bad that we can get access to supplements very easily, but it’s also bad because most people then think supplements are just harmless at worst. They’re harmless so I can just take as many as I want.
Yeah, and I tell patients I’d rather you be on nothing than on an inferior quality product. Nothing. You should be getting as much as you can from your food. What you can’t, that’s what we need to substitute, or we’re using a supplement for a symptom, or helping the adrenal, whatever we need to do in that moment until you’re getting your lifestyle where you don’t have to take all these things, but no, it’s a real problem. And it’s too bad. But you know it’s regulated as food, Carole, it’s not regulated as pharmaceutical.
Now homeopathy on the other hand. Homeopathic are regulated like pharmaceuticals. Much more stringent in getting those regulated and those are regulated as drugs, homeopathy but not nutraceuticals.
Well at least food has some quality standard testing, where supplements I’ve just learned in the last year, they don’t even have to, there’s no testing upfront first of all that this formulation together is safe or what is even in the product is on the label.
No, no, and that’s where my clinical training of four years of botanical medicine on top of the pharmaceuticals at least I can know which ones didn’t we know the mechanism of action, can they be synergistic or are they working against each other, or harmful. I mean we know some, to be able to look at both sides of the fence, or like you said even taking two supplements are they synergist or are they counter acting one another. We have probably, I know naturopaths have more training in that than anybody as far as physicians are concerned, but even us, there’s a lot we don’t know the mechanism of action. In fact, pharmaceuticals if I take out the prescription pad and write it, about 80% of the drugs we don’t know the mechanism of action. We know it helps with that symptom but we don’t know how it worked.
That’s scary how do we know how they work with one another. We have to wait until somebody’s hurt or somebody dies to say oops don’t put those two together again.
Yeah. And in this world of people taking more and more and more medicines …
More’s not better with nutraceuticals either. I tell patients it’s not more, it’s not the game, it’s what do you really need. And eat, get it from your foods as much as you can. Closest to nature.
Yeah. Oh, excellent. I love it all. I also wanted to ask you then about you’re kind of famous aren’t you. You’re out there in the world on TV shows and things like that.
I don’t know what that word famous, in a goldfish bowl maybe. A few people know, but no I love lecturing and I love educating, I do and I’m doing more of it. My practice has been full boat very hard steam for a long time, I’m shrinking it down. I’m seeing less patients so I can do more education. I can help more people.
Education and help more physicians even by educating. I’m doing more on the education end now.
What kind of channels-
… What kind of channels, outlets do you have for your education.
Oh, well there’s a few in the making right now. I did sign with PBS for a television talk show, health hot seat, where I’m in the middle.
And there’s a traditional medical doctor on one side and an alternative medicine on the other and I’m kind of in the middle putting them both to the question of saying, don’t just say go buy [inaudible 00:33:14] you better be telling them about the quality and where’s your science don’t say you have it, if you don’t. I’m okay if you don’t have, just tell me you don’t have it.
And on the other side of saying you’re telling me you won’t even look at anything until it has a double-blind placebo controlled study behind it and even though it’s got thousands of years of use.
The public needs hear both sides at once. They really do. And there’s weaknesses and strengths on both sides. That’s one piece, I do have a once a month on Ohm times, it’s The Truth in Medicine. I co-host that with Sandy [Segber 00:33:48], the other three she’s doing her posting with all the metaphysical world that she does, but they brought me in on that and we’ve interviewed. We’ve had several of the metabolic keto guys on there, so those are good interviews.
Regina Meredith has her own network now and she does a good job interviewing. I’m on there quite a bit with her. And I have some interviews on Gaiam TV that are still out there that I think are beneficial for people thinking about metabolic and the cancer world even through there’s a lot more information I know now than I did then.
But I’ve got some other things in the works too, but we’ll see.
Doing a podcast like yours. You know it’s about reaching the right people at the right time. It’s not about just massive as big as you can get in my world.
Yeah, you want those ears that are open and ready to hear the messages.
That’s right. Don’t have enough time to try to convince those that don’t want to hear. I did that for years. They’d say well there’s no research and I’d bring them stacks and say here it is. And well I don’t have to read it, then why are you wasting my time. There’s plenty that want to learn, that are anxious to learn, more than I have time to work with. They fly out, they see me to get, so there’s plenty I just don’t have time for the other guys anymore.
Yeah, that’s one of the joys keto right now, we let everybody else do the information.
Nay-say, yep, yep.
We’re here, so.
That’s right. And once they experience it that’s it. They don’t care what else we’ve got, but I will say that Dominic, you know Dr. D’Agostino, I mean the research that’s still coming out of there. Dr. Seyfried it’s amazing.
So Dr. Seyfried and Dominic D’Agostino and Travis and I and Dr. Robert Elliot, which I want to tell you about in a minute, we get on once a month and we have a call between us and my real role is just to say how can they collaborate with one another to bring all of this research forward faster, into the major institutions or at least bridging it as fast as we can. That’s exciting to hear those researchers and oncologists in Dr. Elliot’s position. It’s amazing what they have going on, what’s going on in the labs and to hear it before it’s out there and it’s just exciting.
Because as the type of physician I am, I can try some of those things before it becomes standard of care because my license allows me to do natural therapies. If I was an MD only, I wouldn’t even be able to touch it. It’s exciting to be able to get look at these things and start trying these with patients.
That’s wonderful. You are privileged doctor that you get to [crosstalk 00:36:43]-
I am. I feel very honored to listen to that discussion and that collaboration going on with them. They are amazing and just tickled pink as we would say in the south.
Wait are you from the south originally?
Louisiana, but I’ve been in Arizona longer than anywhere, but Louisiana’s still hanging around a little bit. Yep.
Let me tell you a little bit about what Dr. Robert Elliot has going on. I want people to know this. He’s kind of quiet. The nobody in the keto knows yet, I mean the researchers do, but I want your listeners to know. Dr. Elliot has been a fan and been utilizing ketogenic diet in his oncology patients for a long time now. He believed in the metabolic theory of cancer and he knew about it, because for 60 years he’s been, he’s a breast cancer surgeon. He does other types of cancers know, but started there and he would take that pathological slide pieces out of the tumor and study it under a microscope.
PCR, he is a researcher and he’s got an amazing lab, right now. They are studying and he saw what was happening to mitochondria. Now he’s produced many clinical publications and research on the mitochondria inside the cell. He was the first one to transplant mitochondria from one cell to another when everybody said it couldn’t be done.
He’s the one that taught us and showed us that iron feeds cancer. If you have high iron, you need to get that out. It feeds cancer. He’s the one that has prostate and breast cancer vaccines. He’s working with MS, he’s working with other neurological diseases so he’s a big fan of the metabolic way of working with cancer and the immune system.
But he’s also teaching us, and teaching all of us now, there’s a timing. There’s a time and a place for an antioxidant. And your immune system changes from the moment you don’t know you have cancer to the moment you do, until there’s a treatment, until after that treatment. We shouldn’t just load everybody with everything all the way trough. Wrong thing to do.
We’re working together to come up with these timing protocols. Whatever you’re deciding to do, chemo, radiation, ketogenic, whatever you’re doing, the vaccines, there’s a time and a place around that what you should be doing to help that immune system. That’s exciting.
And I can’t wait for you to learn more about that. He’s also has taught us that antibiotics destroys the mitochondria inside the cell. We knew it was bad for us. We knew it caused the things that it does, the thrush, this, we didn’t know for sure that it was killing the mitochondria. He is putting his papers together on that. He already has one paper out and showing that. He’s got some other discoveries, I can’t quite talk about yet, but Dr. Elliot is amazing and it’s good to hear him with the metabolic cancer group, because they all know what they see and that we have to address that metabolic piece and the ketogenic is a big way to do it.
I will say, he takes people off the ketogenic diet a few weeks before the vaccines, there’s a reason that he does it because of the immune system. And then he’ll put it back on. It’s not everything all the way through, which is interesting.
I just thought of another bonus question here, who is not a good fit for a ketogenic diet.
You know, I haven’t met somebody yet, even those that are insulin dependent diabetics. Now you’ve got to be under a physician’s care and do it, and I’ve done it. And when the studies started showing that it was reversing, you know, the pancreat islets cells, it was like good grief. We don’t need to be afraid, but you’ve got to be very careful in doing it. People without a gall bladder, give them ox bile, there’s a way to help them break that fat down.
Some people are more of a struggle with it, and you have to know what you’re dealing with. If their liver is an issue, that has to be addressed and I think that in the keto community we haven’t been looking at that close enough. We should be looking at that and helping that a lot more than we are.
My opinion, I don’t know anybody that it wouldn’t be helpful for, but we may have to adjust it according to that person’s pathology and what’s going on with that patient.
Cool. Nice. Now one group that I’ve found though that is a little maybe not ideal for a keto at least the popular way of keto being done, is when you are already very lean. And they’re trying to be even leaner. Or they’re trying to have a six pack and they’re exercising seven hours a day. Maybe keto in a certain way, might be for them.
I agree, but I think your ratios do need to be changed there. I do. They may need a little more protein than we normally would. Maybe we don’t throw them [inaudible 00:41:43] deep into ketosis as we normally would when we have pathology. We have cancer, we have a disease going on, Alzheimer, we’ve got to be in ketosis to get there, but these women I agree they don’t need to be thrown in as far. In my opinion.
And I find they need to make sure they’re eating adequate calories too.
They don’t want to, and that’s a problem. Yeah, and I tell them the story of probably 30 years ago, we were working in nutrition, I was a sports trainer and this and that, and we noticed we had this group of aerobics instructors and in that day every gym, it was all about aerobics. And they were eating nothing, and teaching eight hours in a row of aerobics classes and they could not lose weight. Well you know what, and low fat diet.
You know what the problem was, they needed the calories to be able to burn the calories where they needed to and be able to produce that muscle. I bring out that story quite often. It’s about balance in the body and when the body feels balanced and is balanced, it’s going to do what it needs to do. And if you’re taking it somewhere that’s not healthy for the body, it’s going to fight you. If you want to be super, super skinny and lean you want your body fat down to two percent and you don’t want your periods and all that, do it and compete, do whatever you’re doing, but if you want to be healthy you need to get back to balance.
Yeah. I hear you’ve got a book coming out.
I do. I’ve got to finish it, but we, my literary agent’s after me to finish it, but it’s more about the mindset when you find out that you have cancer. What to do in that movement. Too many times, I have a patient sit in front of me and say, if I’d known then what I know now, I would have made different choices but more importantly they’re coming to me and they’re saying my doctor just called and said I have cancer, I haven’t seen anybody else, I want to know what you think. I’m teaching them how to think through the process, how to make the decisions. It’s not about what to make, I’m not trying to talk them out of one system over another. Because strengths and weaknesses on both sides. It’s about their belief system, what do they believe is going to help them and cure them. I believe that’s the best. And yes, we need to know the stats, we need to know what we don’t know, and don’t make promises where we shouldn’t.
But they need to know all the information so they can make an informed decision. And again, my take is I’m not going to judge you if you decide to do radiation and chemo. As long as you’ve got the education, and you understand what that means. And what it means long term then I’m okay. I’m riding this with you and helping you make your decisions through it.
I think that everything is that nothing should really become a job, our food, our exercise, we need to be conscious about and saying is it bringing me peace and joy and energy. Is it nurturing me or is it wearing me out trying to be too healthy.
And with cancer. The same. What is going to give the most informed peace that we can get. But informed. I love that I’m a member of the society of integrated oncology. And this year, they actually didn’t award me just a lecture, but a workshop and this is on the homeopathic injections for the liver that I’m talking about. I didn’t think in a million years, I’d be talking about homeopathy in some of these groups, but pain management. I’m a [inaudible 00:45:24] in pain management. It wasn’t too many years ago, they let me lecture on injections, homeopathic injections for pain.
We need to quit saying them versus us. We need to be saying who’s ready to hear the message. Here we are, here’s the science and what we do know and what we don’t know, now let’s work together. And I have many integrated oncologist that work with me. [inaudible 00:45:45] Anderson and other’s that are in the standard of care, but they’re willing to let me use cold laser on radiation burns, willing to let me do alpha lipoic acid so they don’t go into neuropathy. All of this.
And one more thing, I know we’re getting close, MCP modified citrus pectin, maybe that’s a different show, but everybody needs to be looking into that. We know now the mechanism, it blocks galectin-3, it works on preventing and actually helping people with cancers many different types, over 8,000 studies right now. It went from dish to the mice, to the humans and the more we find out the better it gets.
Working on Alzheimer, working on obesity, on diabetes, on auto-immune, heavy metals, I could go on and on, because that Galectin-3 is higher up in the pathway and when you block that you block a lot of bad guys. I’m really excited about MCP and been telling everybody about that.
Oh one more, one more clinical, a good little thing, a good little plug, coffee can be the highest antioxidant out there. Higher than kale. If it’s processed correctly. I want everybody to look into and it’s just a plug for them and that’s okay, I don’t have an affiliation, but purity coffee. Purity not only do they make sure they’ve got Grade A beans so that they’re not cut, they’re not broken so they lost their antioxidants, they take each batch, they test it, they figure out how to roast it to keep the antioxidant status as high as they can. Now that’s pretty cool, it’s not just organic, not just Grade A, not just they have zero molds and toxins in it, micro-toxins zero, not the amount you’re allowed, but I love that they are saying how do we make it the highest antioxidant.
And on keto, most of us, we like our coffee.
Yeah. Oh, wait, I already put my cup in the dishwasher.
Yeah, try purity, it tastes good, you’re going to love it, but I love that they literally test it for the antioxidants activity.
That’s awesome. I was going to ask if there was anything else you were wanting to share, it sounds like you kind of, anything else.
No, those are little pieces, but I thought those were important for your listeners. I do like that purity coffee, just because they consider themselves a health company, not a coffee company.
[crosstalk 00:48:10] Dr. Robert, Dr. Elliot and the vaccines that he has and the work that he’s doing, be watching for him and keep following Dominic and Dr. Seyfried and Travis with the Care Oncology, keep following those guys, they’re doing amazing things.
Yeah. Excellent. Well, oh my gosh. You’re a wealth of information. I just love your passion, what you’re doing and I just know that your patients are getting phenomenal results because they have somebody that truly cares about giving them the optimal health and solving that health puzzle that going on. I’ve got one closing question for you it’s your final day on the planet, the meteors coming at us, we’re all going out today, especially the meteors are going to go to Arizona first, that’s where they’re going to …
They already have.
We know it’s going there first, it’s you final day on Earth and what’s going to be your ultimate final meal?
Meal, okay, it would be fried green tomatoes, chicken and dumplings, and boiled okra.
There’s the Louisiana.
Southern girl in me. Yep.
Going back to her roots, yeah.
Fried green tomatoes.
Awe, that’s awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you Dr. Worden, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing everything.
Thank you for the work you’re doing and I am very impressed with your program. Telling patients about it, very detailed, keep it up. You’re doing a great job.
Oh, thank you so much. Thank you very much, I really appreciate that. Well, we’ll link all your things below in the show now, I’ve been-
I’m really bad at those things, but I’m getting better at those things, social media and all that. I have to.
I’ve got a full page of notes, I’m going to tag all of this in the YouTube thing so hopefully we can just get all the juicy tidbits, get the most …
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